OIL THREAD!!!!

[Engineer]

Many people make the error of assuming that because the oil that comes out of the ground is millions of years old, then the stuff that you put in the bike is also millions of years old so that a couple of years extra won't make any difference. This is just plain wrong!!

The stuff that comes out the ground is just the raw material (just like any other raw material that is dug up, e.g. iron ore or bauxite). Once the stuff comes out of the gound it is changed enormously before it gets into your bike - it is heated, fractionated, different components removed (petrol being one of them), mashed about to break up the long chain molecules and to form new ones of different lengths and properties, it goes through many chemical processes and other chemicals are added to change it beyond recognition from the crude gloop that is pumped out of the holes in the ground.

So what you put in your bike is newly manufactured it ain't miilions of years old.

 

[Steptoe]

Many people make the error of assuming that because the oil that comes out of the ground is millions of years old, then the stuff that you put in the bike is also millions of years old so that a couple of years extra won't make any difference. This is just plain wrong!!

.

Stop talking piffle and try using common sense .

 

[Engineer]

Stop talking piffle and try using common sense .

The raw materials that make up YOU are even older than the those that make up oil - every atom in your body has been around since just after the Universe began - but your shelf life will be somewhat less

P.S. common sense is purely determined by one's own predjudices!

 

[davegs]

Hot air

Whats all this bullshit is about oil in a boxer engine, not somthing to lubricate the highest stressed engine known to man so lets have a bit of common sense
these things will survive on anything so lets end this argument about nothing.
Steptoe has had more experiance with BMW engines than anyone on this site so lets give him a bit of respect and I wholheartedly agree with his post stop talking crap and go back to your armchair mechaniking.
Dave GS (used every sort of oil you can think of in my 1150, 87,000 and never broken down once apart from frayed throtle cables).

 

[sproggy]

Whats all this bullshit is about oil in a boxer engine, not somthing to lubricate the highest stressed engine known to man so lets have a bit of common sense

This thread was never about engine oil - it's about gear oil.

 

[davegs]

This thread was never about engine oil - it's about gear oil.

Same applies it aint powering the queen Mary.

 

[Steptoe]

If you have ever studied chemistry you will know that all materials react with one another, it is just a matter of how quickly - materials do change their characteristics over time.

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I'd imagine the biggest change to an oils characteristics is being in a hot engine with the nuts thrashed out of it.
Not sitting in a plastic container on a shelf.

 

[ianf]

Yeah, but what sort of engineer?

 

[Pekkavee]

Same applies it aint powering the queen Mary.

RMS Queen Mary doesn't move anymore

Pekka

 

[davegs]

now you know why!.

 

[Pekkavee]

now you know why!.

Gearbox oil was not according to the users manual.
I knew that already.

Pekka

 

[Engineer]

It is amazing how people become so opinionated about things - they stick to their experience and beliefs and refuse ever to look beyond it and then condemn people who question them as talking piffle or lacking common sense - hmmmmmm rational and inteligent??? There is no such thing a stupid question, just stupid answers!

The original question was about whether or not 'out of date' oil gear oil was ok to use - the answer is simple, as confirmed by the technical people who make the oil, that it is probably fine, but they also added that they put a shelf life on the oils because they cannot or don't want to guarantee it for ever, who in their right mind would! - so they err on the side of caution, seems wise to me.

The other thing they added was that formulations change over time (even for the the same rating GL4, GL5 or whatever) So the best way to ensure that you are using the best possible oil to the latest formulation is to always use it from new(ish) stock.

I bought some GL5 from a supplier some time ago and when I got it home I noticed that it was about 4 years 'out of date' - I questioned it with the manufacturer and they were very suprised that such old stock was still around - they replaced it without question free of charge, so the argument that they put a shelf life on the oil just so that they can sell more is fallacious.

 

[Engineer]

Whats all this bullshit is about oil in a boxer engine, not somthing to lubricate the highest stressed engine known to man so lets have a bit of common sense
these things will survive on anything so lets end this argument about nothing.
Steptoe has had more experiance with BMW engines than anyone on this site so lets give him a bit of respect and I wholheartedly agree with his post stop talking crap and go back to your armchair mechaniking.
Dave GS (used every sort of oil you can think of in my 1150, 87,000 and never broken down once apart from frayed throtle cables).

Look up the spec of GL5 - it is intended for high stress conditions and BMW recommended it in their gearboxes!!!!! DOH!

 

[Littledumptruck]

I didn't think that many of the oils we use these days actaully had anything to do with what comes out of the ground anyway. Thought most of them were mostly synthetic, for whatever that means!

On another slightly diferent tack. I've read on another forum a similar thread that talks about potential problems of changing oils too often because they aparently all contain detergents that can be corrosive to some parts. They evaporate in the first few days/weeks of use, but if you keep replacing oil too often you sort of overdo the cleansing bit. The gist was, stick it in, let it do its 4 or 6thousand miles regardless of age.

 

[raginmund]

On another slightly diferent tack. I've read on another forum a similar thread that talks about potential problems of changing oils too often because they aparently all contain detergents that can be corrosive to some parts. They evaporate in the first few days/weeks of use, but if you keep replacing oil too often you sort of overdo the cleansing bit. The gist was, stick it in, let it do its 4 or 6thousand miles regardless of age.

Exactly what I was told from Jaws, regarding my blackbird; actually an 8k interval on the CBRXX, according to Honda spec. No point in changing it before that due to the oil cycle.

I asked RGM about more frequent oil changes on the GS, he said there's no need (but to religiously check oil-level and top up).

Can we merge the oil threads? It's getting quite interesting

 

[Steptoe]

It is amazing how people become so opinionated about things -.

An opinion was asked for. So i gave one. And i'll stick to it.

if i found 10 year old engine oil i doubt i'd use it, but not because of any sell by date, purely because of the newer oil technology.

But if it were 10 year old gear oil i'd use it. Seeing as the 1150 is ten years old and it would be what was used without any problems in the past, and mineral gear oil has changed very very little over the years.

 

[Engineer]

An opinion was asked for. So i gave one. And i'll stick to it.

if i found 10 year old engine oil i doubt i'd use it, but not because of any sell by date, purely because of the newer oil technology.

But if it were 10 year old gear oil i'd use it. Seeing as the 1150 is ten years old and it would be what was used without any problems in the past, and mineral gear oil has changed very very little over the years.

Opinionated in the negative and abusive sense .e.g in the sense of of 'I am right' and other informed decisions are "piffle" especially when they are those of the people who make the oil in the first place!

 

[The Sea Dog]

It is amazing how people become so opinionated about things - they stick to their experience and beliefs and refuse ever to look beyond it and then condemn people who question them as talking piffle or lacking common sense -

Whats all this bullshit is about oil in a boxer engine, not somthing to lubricate the highest stressed engine known to man so lets have a bit of common sense
these things will survive on anything so lets end this argument about nothing.


.......stop talking crap and go back to your armchair mechaniking.
Dave GS (used every sort of oil you can think of in my 1150, 87,000 and never broken down once apart from frayed throtle cables).

 

[Steptoe]

Opinionated in the negative and abusive sense .e.g in the sense of of 'I am right' and other informed decisions are "piffle" especially when they are those of the people who make the oil in the first place!

They don't make the oil. It's made over millions of years. They bottle up a cocktail and sell it on. Or am i talking piffle

 

[Engineer]

They don't make the oil. It's made over millions of years. They bottle up a cocktail and sell it on. Or am i talking piffle

What they dig up is NOT what you put in your bike - go research it! They do 'make' the oil, it has had lots done to it - the more synthetic it claims to be the more it has been messed with.

Wiki will tell you where it comes from and how much it is messed with, read it, scroll down and then click on lubricating oils - enjoy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_refinery

P.S. All raw materials that are dug out of the ground are old, how can they be anything else, (I am sure that you will find an exception to prove the rule!), but it is no guarantee that once we have used it in a recipe to make something else that the end product will remain as stable for as long as the separate ingredients did.

Go use you old gear oil - it probably is ok and you might save your customers a few pennies and increase your profits at the same time - I just prefer to use new stuff if at all possible.