Out of warranty FD failure - options

[BBB61]

I'm talking about the PR blurb from BMW. So are you saying BMUU PR isn't fact? ... that they tell fibs?

If we can't rely on what comes from BMUU what are we supposed to believe?

Remember their bikes are "Unstoppable" !!

If you honestly believe the PR turned out by any business then you really are naive.

 

[Demongroover]

Hmm, I seem to have opened a can of worms here

Still awaiting report on the FD.
Have booked test ride on Triumph Sprint GT and Tiget 1050 in the meantime

 

[theop]

Without wanting to stir things up on the bike Debate, I don't think the varadero is a GS equivalent. When I bought the GS, it was one of the other bikes I considered, along with an FJR. Test rode one of the tri colour ones with the wife and thought it was rubbish compared with the GS because:

Chain drive
Weighed too much
Looked ugly
Had ugly cases
Didn't work out much cheaper

In it's defence though, it looked well built, was very comfy, and being a honda I'm sure it would be dead reliable. Just no way I was going to part with the money for a bike that would have been a 'tool'. No way the wife was going to part with the money for it either.

I'm honestly hoping that after the VFR update, the varadero is next. If they can make it no heavier, give it a shaft drive, and make it pretty (probably can't!), then I would be very interested in it.

The money issue wasn't there 10 years ago.... The Varadero was significantly cheaper than the GS of the day by a factor of 30-40%...
I think ca 1999 in England, the (just new then) 1150GS was short change of £10k playing the (already ancient) Varadero at 6k+. So it was significant.

But as you said, it didn't really matter once you rode them, as the Honda was steering like you ve got a rear flat tyre...

I compared them at the time but I only test rode (first time) the GS as I had that short experience in Greece on the Varadero. If I m totally honest, at he time I also did not rate the GS as it seemed tractor slow (in comparison to my Fazer 600 that I wanted to change) and never had the time to get the feel and deception of its AAA geometry.

So I ended up with a Triumph Tiger 900 (the last of the pre ugly ones)..., which was a love and hate relationship.... but thats a story for another day.


PS: To close this topic, as its getting a bit long and boring, my dream traille which I hope they make could be the Varadero replacement.

It will be made by Honda
It shall have the VFR12 V4, detuned, more torque.
It will be gorgeous to look at (not counting on it)
It will be shaft driven
It will be big and significant in the eye (unlike the puny multistrada), but will steer at least as well as a current GS.

Thats the ideal competitor for the GS. If they make it, and its engines are swarfless and thus don't tend to throw conrods right left and centre (like the current vfr 12), it will walk all over the GS

 

[BBB61]

The money issue wasn't there 10 years ago.... The Varadero was significantly cheaper than the GS of the day by a factor of 30-40%...
I think ca 1999 in England, the (just new then) 1150GS was short change of £10k playing the (already ancient) Varadero at 6k+. So it was significant.

The price of the 1150GS on the 1st July 1999 was 8200 pounds

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/pricephotos/uk prices july 1999.jpg

It was later reduced to 7595.

The Varadero was only introduced in 1998, so it was hardly ancient in 1999.

 

[theop]

The price of the 1150GS on the 1st July 1999 was 8200 pounds

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/photos/pricephotos/uk prices july 1999.jpg

It was later reduced to 7595.

The Varadero was only introduced in 1998, so it was hardly ancient in 1999.

you are obviously right.. i somehow vividly remember that i could never justify a £10k new bike vs £5k that a new Fazer was then or the 7k I paid for a new Tiger eventually... Perhaps 8200 was the "bmw" price.... i.e wheels and an engine.. By the time you put any kit on it.... I remember my spec (I think it was only ABS, heated grips and panniers as extras...) would have probably pushed it higher...

The Varadero was ancient on day 1 as dynamically inferior to probably all other bikes in the market at the time that it ventured to compete with. That was the problem.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

interesting though that myself included, there seems to be others longing for the varadero update. Yamaha seemed to have missed the target with the super tenere, but I'd guess there are a whole bunch of people that would readily switch to Honda if the bike is made right.

Oooooo, so exciting......






bet they miss the mark as well though

 

[red1]

If you honestly believe the PR turned out by any business then you really are naive.

As a naive GS owner I actually believed this ....... 2004 BMW GS Specification

all of which is as Bob states, lies, lies, lies.

For those not wanting to read the whole pack of lies you may find this section on the FD amusing.

Lightweight driveshaft and Paralever swinging arm - an innovative variation on a traditional principle

An indispensable feature of the new R1200GS (as on all BMW Boxers) is the maintenance-free driveshaft extending to the rear wheel. Having proven its merits for more than 80 years, this is the only logical drive concept with the crankshaft in longitudinal arrangement. In practice, this concept means supreme customer benefits - considering that chain drive, despite many improvements over the years, is not appropriate.

Over the years, BMW has consistently improved the driveshaft principle, meeting new requirements and demands in the process. The biggest innovation came in 1988 with the introduction of the Paralever swinging arm on the most powerful enduro at the time, the BMW R100GS. Using an additional pivot between the final drive and the swinging arm, BMW's engineers were able to disconnect the unavoidable reaction of the driveshaft from the swinging arm, thus eliminating the often-criticised torque reaction effect, where the rear end moved up and down when accelerating or braking.

A further advantage provided by the Paralever is that the springs do not harden when accelerating flat-out, providing a significant improvement in traction - an important feature when riding up steep gradients on rough terrain.

Considering the significant benefits of a driveshaft, the higher weight and increase in unsprung masses are immaterial (versus chain drive).

While in the process of developing the R1200GS, BMW's engineers were not satisfied until even this feature (more noticeable when an enduro is used off-road) had ultimately been properly improved. Accordingly, the entire transmission system of the new R1200GS has been redesigned - right through to the rear wheel. The result is a drivetrain that, together with the much stiffer Paralever swinging arm, reduces weight by approximately 10 per cent. Unsprung masses are lower and provide an even more sensitive response on the rear wheel suspension that is already acknowledged for it superior qualities.

The main components of this new system are the axle drive and the swinging arm itself. Made of an ultra-strong cast aluminium alloy, the Paralever swinging arm (through its design and specific dimensions tailored to load conditions) is even lighter than before but also stiffer and stronger.

The geometric configuration of the entire swinging arm has likewise been modified, and dive compensation is now almost 100 per cent. With forces acting on the final drive housing supported above the swinging arm, ground clearance at this point is greater than before, efficiently protecting the swinging arm (even on rough terrain) against damage caused by rocks and similar objects.

The swinging arm is a two-piece forged aluminium unit. Another new feature is the re-configuration of the swinging arm mount, which has been moved from the final drive to the rear frame - again in the interest of extra strength and robustness under the most extreme off-road conditions.

The pivot point of the axle drive unit resting in the swinging arm has been moved down to provide a more favourable geometric arrangement which also incorporates greater stiffness. The bearing point, in turn, has been reinforced to match the higher load and forces from the more powerful engine.

With its improved kinematics, the driveshaft no longer changes in length as a result of geometric conditions. This also helps to save weight, since the length adjustment unit formerly fitted is no longer required. The shaft itself now comes as one single piece and - like before - runs without oil in the shaft sleeve.

The final drive housing is matched in size and dimensions precisely to the inner contours of the angle transmission, avoiding even the slightest waste of space.

The crown wheel has been re-calculated and is also lighter than before; the wheel flange is now made of aluminium in order to save weight. With its larger diameter, the flange offers the wheel better support, with additional weight-saving for the rear wheel (around the hub).

The outer sign of distinction and a visual highlight of this extremely compact and elegant lightweight structure is the 50-mm hole drilled through the axle pipe of the final drive housing. The final drive itself comes with lifetime oil filling and this means that there is no need to change the final drive fluid throughout the entire life of the motorcycle.

In re-configuring the design principles of the entire machine, assembly of the final drive has been simplified and further refinements introduced. The hollow axle sleeve helps dissipate heat from the final drive because of its greater surface area and efficient flow effects. Signals for the ABS brake system and the speedometer are read by a sensor directly in front of segment pieces on the crown wheel - making the outer emitter wheel, used on the former model, superfluous.

The increase in diameter of the drill holes on the wheel flange mean that five light wheel bolts, measuring 10 mm in diameter and with longer expansion length, are used instead of the former relatively heavy wheel bolts with a cone. This means even greater safety when bolting on the wheels and allows use of a smaller wheel bolt wrench (less weight in the toolkit).

New running gear - stiff, higher strength steel tube frame

The R1200GS retains the basic configuration of all Boxer suspension concepts - the engine/transmission unit serves as a load-bearing element and the wheel guidance components are bolted onto the frame. The Telelever longitudinal arm pivots on the engine housing, as before. The actual frame of the R1200GS employs the front subframe, which supports the Telelever at the top, and the rear frame with integrated swinging arm mount.

The engine/gearbox unit is bolted to the rear frame at four points and onto the front frame at two points. This composite structure, incorporating the drive unit, forms the motorcycle's load-bearing framework.

The two frame elements of the R1200GS are lightweight structures in what is called "truss" design: The front frame is a triangular structure made of high-strength steel tubes welded together. It offers the great advantage of highly robust support on off-road terrain, plus package benefits and greater stiffness over the previous cast aluminium front frame. Weight is unchanged.

The rear subframe is also made of straight steel tubes welded together, creating an overall low weight configuration of maximum stiffness and strength. New features are the special mounts for the side-stand and main stand and the rider's footrests, which are connected directly to the rear subframe. The side-stand folds easily and conveniently even when the rider is sitting on the machine.

 

[theop]

As a naive GS owner I actually believed this ....... 2004 BMW GS Specification

all of which is as Bob states, lies, lies, lies.

For those not wanting to read the whole pack of lies you may find this section on the FD amusing.

haha I remember the blurb....These are always drafted by marketing departments so future customers can salivate as they wait for their new toy...

 

[BBB61]

As a naive GS owner I actually believed this ....... 2004 BMW GS Specification

all of which is as Bob states, lies, lies, lies.

For those not wanting to read the whole pack of lies you may find this section on the FD amusing.

Moving the goal posts again I see. First you said it was the PR blurb and now you say it was the specifications. From post 77:-

I'm talking about the PR blurb from BMW

Make up your mind which one you are going to use old boy.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

"final drive itself comes with lifetime oil filling and this means that there is no need to change the final drive fluid throughout the entire life of the motorcycle"

I don't think they were telling fibs. The oil doesn't need to be changed throughout the whole life of the motorcycle*....


*expected life of motorcycle approximately 6,000 miles due to shaft drive failure

I'm just continuing this cause it's a fun thread. I love the GS, and am sooo tempted to buy another one. I just don't trust it

 

[Demongroover]

I sent my final drive away to some outfit advertising in BM Magazine and suggested by a fellow forum member.
After they rang me back, twice, detailing how they were proficient and confident they could repair the R1200 final drive I posted it up to them.
I waited just over a week for a call back despite several calls from me to chase them up.
When they finally called me back they 'daren't have a go at this one' they think they would warp the unit trying to get the unit apart.

I am now awaiting getting the unit back so I can try and find somewhere else to try.

I have been recommended RGM in Preston and Scrimingers in Sleaford, does anyone have any experience of these on R1200 bikes?

 

[bisbee]

I sent my final drive away to some outfit advertising in BM Magazine and suggested by a fellow forum member.
After they rang me back, twice, detailing how they were proficient and confident they could repair the R1200 final drive I posted it up to them.
I waited just over a week for a call back despite several calls from me to chase them up.
When they finally called me back they 'daren't have a go at this one' they think they would warp the unit trying to get the unit apart.

I am now awaiting getting the unit back so I can try and find somewhere else to try.

I have been recommended RGM in Preston and Scrimingers in Sleaford, does anyone have any experience of these on R1200 bikes?

Send a pm to Arkwright2007 I am sure he will point you in a certain direction

ps mine has gone at 13000 miles the dealer has it to fix under warranty I am told the new ones have a breather

 

[Demongroover]

ps mine has gone at 13000 miles the dealer has it to fix under warranty I am told the new ones have a breather

Filler, drain plug and a breather.

"But nothing was wrong with the original version, Sir, no of course not Sir."

 

[bsogri]

FINAL DRIVE REBUILDS

Worn bearings ,leaking oil seals I can rebuild your rear drive including 1200 gs

 

[BlueBird]

Half a job

Come on BSogri spill the beans doing the axle shaft bearing,s is the easy part,

have you done the pinion shaft bearings as well???????????????

Its only half a job otherwise

I have and its doable once you figure out how to get the inner races off,