Pack size and weight.

[Tonibe63]

Last week SWMBO and I did 3 days of walking over a 5 day period in mid-Wales to see if we are too old to start serious walking/hiking again (stumble report to follow ). I carried my OEX Vallo air 36 rucksack with a total weight of under 5kg including fluid/food/waterproofs etc with ease and have previously walked to the local supermarket carrying approx 5kg of shopping. This morning I did the shopping trip and calculated the rucksack was full with 10kg of goods but after the 15 minute walk home it was really heavy. This (and tuftywhite's lakes report) prompted me to start thinking about weights and pack size for a multi day camp/hiking trips.
Advice and experience's welcome from the knowledgeable collective.

 

[OnHellas]

I have a base weight for hiking at 7.6kg.
That is everything I need for summer hiking. Tent, sleep system, clothes, wash stuff, gas, burner and pot, some spare stuff (puncture kit for Thermarest, guy lines, tent pegs), water bladder and pipe, first aid kit. Etc etc.

Add 1.5 - 2 litres of water, food for a few days if hiking in remote areas (Pyrenees).

For UK hikes that I’ve done like The Coast to Coast I mainly just buy the food as I go. Carrying a few just in case bits that I won’t eat straight away.

Have you considered some of The Camino routes in Spain?
No camping stuff to carry apart from sleeping bag and liner for the Albergue stays.
Accommodation is cheap. A bed in a shared room at an Albergue typically around €12 per person per night.
Good food for not much money.

Loads of routes all over the country. The most famous is the French route from St Jean Pied de Port to Santiago but there are plenty of less travelled paths out there.
I usually end up with about 7kg in my pack for a Camino as I take a few more clothes and more substantial second footwear for showers and evening wanderings.

 

[tuftywhite]

What a can of worms you've opened.

Loads of different parameters to consider. Weather, season you're walking, how big your gear is, in order to fit it in the bag you have. Just as an example, I took my down sleeping bag on this trip because it gives me the greatest warmth to pack size ratio. Had I taken my equivalent synthetic filled sleeping bag, I'd have needed to take my 65 litre rucksack. I also took a 1 person tent. I took the minimum of spare clothing for the trip I was doing. I'd planned to take up to 7 days if necessary. Then there's the stove, fuel, etc. If you're going with someone else, you can share the tent, food stove etc.

The trip I did, I took my new Fjallraven Kajka X-latt 45 litre sack. Mainly as my wife bought it for my birthday present, so I thought I'd better use it. I've never used such a small pack for a trip before, and would say that 55 - 65 litre rucksack would be prudent. The benefit I have, is that I have lighweight and small kit to go in the pack too. That's how I got away with it.

Further into the winter, I'd have wanted my coat and tent inside the bag, so I'd have taken a bigger pack.

So much depends on when, what and where you're going and how self-sufficient you want to be.

 

[Barnoe]

its all relative.

Obviously lighter the better but if your camping its difficult, especially if your going somewhere well off the beaten track.
if your passing shops each day then you can save a bit of weight and carry less food and water.

Another option with many popular trails are baggage services.
Lots of services will move your bags from one campsite or hotel to your next destination along the full route, technically you can then walk with a very light day pack. Lots of people do this.

 

[Barnoe]

One of the way some people keep their pack weight down is by buying smaller bags.

if you buy a 70ltr backpack its tempting to keep putting things in until it feels like your dragging your house along.
if you buy a 40ltr you really have to take things you need and leave luxuries, so its easier.

I own a Osprey AG 65 ltr pack and i don't mind only filling it half way on 2 day hikes.
carrying too much is the no.1 reason new hikers fail.

Fill a pack and do a day trail near home of about 12-15 miles and see how you feel.
Maybe do a walk with 5kg and if you feel good try 10kg

remember 1ltr of water weights 1kg
its better to carry 1 litre and a water filter than filling a 3ltr bladder.

look at everything you put in your bag and ask yourself, can i make it lighter?
take anything out of big packaging and put into ziplok bags

Over time you can replace things 1 at a time for lighter versions, most people don't do it straight away as it can be expensive.
lighter tents, sleeping bags, cookers, boots, jackets.

Also walking poles are essential when carrying a backpack, they take the strain off your knees coming down hills by up to 40% and obviously help with balance and can save spraining ankles.
this means you can walk further with less effort and strain.
They can be used to check depth of water and fend of animals too if needed.

I have black diamond Z poles which fold in 3 and can be stored away on easy ground or in a town.
But on rough ground or steep hills out they come

 

[Davey B]

I've long since given up on recreating my younger days of being able to carry a decent pack size and weight and much as I'd like to do some long ditance walks, they'd have to be with lightweight kit and with an overnight in digs of some sort...YHA, B and B, Hotel...wouldn't be too bothered. (Doing it on a push bike or e-bike; on gravel tracks, bridleways, small lanes etc is another matter...maybe something to consider?)

 

[OnHellas]

Another vote here for a water filter and walking poles.

A bigger bag not stuffed full suits me better than one that is ramoed before the off.
The temptation to fill it is not one that I succumb too.

 

[siddo]

Last week SWMBO and I did 3 days of walking over a 5 day period in mid-Wales to see if we are too old to start serious walking/hiking again (stumble report to follow ). I carried my OEX Vallo air 36 rucksack with a total weight of under 5kg including fluid/food/waterproofs etc with ease and have previously walked to the local supermarket carrying approx 5kg of shopping. This morning I did the shopping trip and calculated the rucksack was full with 10kg of goods but after the 15 minute walk home it was really heavy. This (and tuftywhite's lakes report) prompted me to start thinking about weights and pack size for a multi day camp/hiking trips.
Advice and experience's welcome from the knowledgeable collective.

Just carry your essentials. Everything else you can buy or wash on your way.

The heaviest load is your missus. Leave her at home and your burden and worries will be massively lightened.

 

[Tonibe63]

Many thanks for the replies and I'll try to cover them all in one reply.
Over the last 15 years we've done a lot of 'holiday travelling' on one motorbike with nothing booked, carrying a tent plus sleeping gear just incase BUT no cooking gear so eat when/where you can-I always joke that we've never slept in a ditch or had to drink our own urine so all is good .
About 12 years ago we bought walking boots, rode to Scotland and completed Ben Nevis/Scarfell/Snowdon over a 10 day 'holiday' (totally knackered by the end). Since then we have done Penygent, Kinder Scout and Striding edge/Helvellyn amongst others but never done a multi day hike and always had accommodation booked so never carried camping gear on our backs.
Now in our early 60's we are considering choices around wether to pack up our part time working to fulfil my/our dreams or try to fit them around work and exploring what that'll look like. Finances are not limitless but neither is health .
For me (having stopped in St Jean pied deport twice) a Camino quite appeals as does the UK Coast to Coast (which my late father completed on his own in his 50's).
SWMBO isn't sure she is fit enough (leaking heart valves) so isn't fully on board but that's not a problem to either of us. For me I am in the research and training stage .
Thanks again for the replies, any other advice welcome

 

[OnHellas]

On the subject of a Camino. The French route from St Jean is the busiest. The steepest bits are at the beginning and then again a short sharp hill up to O’Cebreiro in Galicia.

Other routes have less elevation gain and certainly a lot less people.
A section of the Via de la Plata from Seville is a good example. The 300 miles to Salamanca is around three weeks walking.
Buses from there to Madrid airport.

Anyway, there I go getting excited. You’re the planner, you told us that. Sorry.

Oh, one last thing. There’s never any shame in giving it a go and bailing out after … days of it’s not working.

 

[Tonibe63]

On the subject of a Camino. The French route from St Jean is the busiest. The steepest bits are at the beginning and then again a short sharp hill up to O’Cebreiro in Galicia.

Other routes have less elevation gain and certainly a lot less people.
A section of the Via de la Plata from Seville is a good example. The 300 miles to Salamanca is around three weeks walking.
Buses from there to Madrid airport.

Anyway, there I go getting excited. You’re the planner, you told us that. Sorry.

Oh, one last thing. There’s never any shame in giving it a go and bailing out after … days of it’s not working.

No need for apologies, getting excited is good .
Camino Primitivo was a passing interest based on the views and possible 14 day timescale .

 

[OnHellas]

No need for apologies, getting excited is good .
Camino Primitivo was a passing interest based on the views and possible 14 day timescale .

That’s one on my Adventures to go on list….its quite a long list.

 

[tuftywhite]

look at everything you put in your bag and ask yourself, can i make it lighter?
take anything out of big packaging and put into ziplok bags

When I returned from this list, I took my kit list (which included nearly everything) and turned it into a spreadsheet, noting if I used that item, rating of how valuable it was out of 10, and if I'd take it again.

Quite pleased to say that the only thing I thought I'd not take again was a spare phone. (small old Nokia)

I've also put comments where relevant to remind me next time I do a similar trip.

 

[glenn2926]

Another vote here for a water filter and walking poles.

A bigger bag not stuffed full suits me better than one that is ramoed before the off.
The temptation to fill it is not one that I succumb too.

I’ve tried walking poles over the years since I first ventured out in the hills and mountains back in 1974. They have always been a hindrance to me, just something else to carry along. Water wise we always just drank from mountain streams and never suffered any ill affects. The rucksack usually weighed around
35-40lbs. I still have my Karrimor Jaguar 7 90litre rucksack which replaced an old frame rucksack. I haven’t used it since my ML training back in the early 2000s.
Gear has come a long way from the Blacks Mountain tent, Blacks Icelandic special sleeping bag, Karrimat, Primus stove and RAF pans.
We eventually bought a Vango Force Ten tent with green nylon fly sheet and Trangia stove with integrated pans. A swanky new Point Five Orion sleeping bag for my 16th birthday back in 1976 which I still have. It’s now known as old two feather. Not sure they were any better but they were lighter.

 

[OnHellas]

I’ve tried walking poles over the years since I first ventured out in the hills and mountains back in 1974. They have always been a hindrance to me, just something else to carry along. Water wise we always just drank from mountain streams and never suffered any ill affects. The rucksack usually weighed around
35-40lbs. I still have my Karrimor Jaguar 7 90litre rucksack which replaced an old frame rucksack. I haven’t used it since my ML training back in the early 2000s.
Gear has come a long way from the Blacks Mountain tent, Blacks Icelandic special sleeping bag, Karrimat, Primus stove and RAF pans.
We eventually bought a Vango Force Ten tent with green nylon fly sheet and Trangia stove with integrated pans. A swanky new Point Five Orion sleeping bag for my 16th birthday back in 1976 which I still have. It’s now known as old two feather. Not sure they were any better but they were lighter.

I found one walking pole easy to use but when I first tried two I just couldn’t get the rhythm….i can’t dance…but with the help of Percy Verance I cracked it.
Definitely a massive plus on the hills and mountains.
Definitely something else to carry on the flat.

 

[siddo]

Idiot sticks.
Improve your posture and walk naturally.

 

[Morety]

One think which hasn't been mentioned much is getting a pack that FITS really well. You want a good 80% or more of the weight transferred to your hips or walking can become laboured with as little as 5 or 6KG after the first few miles over difficult terrain. In my case, with a fused spine and metalwork fixing my lower vertebrae to my pelvis, and a tilted (15 degrees) pelvis, I cannot use a majority of backpacks out there as they'd spell disaster for my back. I always look for a pack with a variable torso length adjustment, really decent hip padding and which uses a trampoline mesh to hold the pack off the base and middle of my back. Unfortunately I cannot use the Osprey AG Atmos packs (one of the best out there) because the hip belt won't float independant of the main pack and using the load adjuster straps tries to force the base of my curved spine so that it pressurises my metalwork. Was gutted when I tried one and loved the pack until I did the straps up! There are one or two which will, including the Deuter Futura Air Trek series which are about the most comfortable packs you can wear if a bit on the weighty side.

The idea is that the top of the hip belt, irrespective of backpack uses should come over the top of your pelvis Lilac Crest by a third to a half of the waist belt depth, locking the weight transfer onto you pelvis from your spine. The deuter goes one step further, allowing a higher mounting position which keeps the base of the back off the back of the pelvis and allows the hip belt to flex with your pelvis independently of the pack. It's a brilliant piece of design.

Older Alpine Lower Air Zone pro backpacks are also exceptionally well designed with a full cut out down the padding to keep the back of the pack from pushing against the base of the spine and are really comfortable packs.

I learned a long time ago that one pack won't do it all, so it pays to have a few of various designs and sizes. I've settled on a 35-45 (expandable) pack with a decent frame and air mesh trampoline support which is a great daypack for seriously long walks carrying maybe 6Kg max.

For lighter loads including a day's food, spare clothing, water and other odds and sods, I have a lightweight 25 litre pack.

The Deuter is 50+10 litres and what I use for overnight camps and multiday hikes. I limit my pack weight to 8Kg or 10 at a push (including the backpack weight). Like the Osprey Atmos backpacks, it uses really decent padding and forces the main pack away from your back using a curved frame and air mesh trampoline support. For many people (without back injuries, but will suit some with too) they are the gold standard in design and comfort so worth the extra weight penalty and the premium pricing.

Sadly in the UK, I can't find any Aarn pack dealers, but they distribute weight helping to avoid you being pulled back when load straps are done up by using an additional front chest mounted pack to the main one.

Walking poles are not optional for me, so I always use them these days, the lighter the better. They actually do help with walking energy efficiency, used properly can help maintain a decent pace and make longer walks more comfortable, and are essential for me anyway on downhill sections to help prevent slips, trips and falls. If on a budget, I really rate the OEX Carbon Ultralight poles. A pair of those replaced a heavier more expensive alloy set I previously used.

 

[adventuredon]

One of the way some people keep their pack weight down is by buying smaller bags.

if you buy a 70ltr backpack its tempting to keep putting things in until it feels like your dragging your house along.
if you buy a 40ltr you really have to take things you need and leave luxuries, so its easier.

I own a Osprey AG 65 ltr pack and i don't mind only filling it half way on 2 day hikes.
carrying too much is the no.1 reason new hikers fail.

Fill a pack and do a day trail near home of about 12-15 miles and see how you feel.
Maybe do a walk with 5kg and if you feel good try 10kg

remember 1ltr of water weights 1kg
its better to carry 1 litre and a water filter than filling a 3ltr bladder.

look at everything you put in your bag and ask yourself, can i make it lighter?
take anything out of big packaging and put into ziplok bags

Over time you can replace things 1 at a time for lighter versions, most people don't do it straight away as it can be expensive.
lighter tents, sleeping bags, cookers, boots, jackets.

Also walking poles are essential when carrying a backpack, they take the strain off your knees coming down hills by up to 40% and obviously help with balance and can save spraining ankles.
this means you can walk further with less effort and strain.
They can be used to check depth of water and fend of animals too if needed.

I have black diamond Z poles which fold in 3 and can be stored away on easy ground or in a town.
But on rough ground or steep hills out they come

less than 40%.. and going uphill, you'll burn more calories using upperbody, meaning more need for food..Knee and ankle load: Studies show that using two poles decreases compressive forces on your lower extremities by 12% to 16% on descents