Personal Radios

Peanuts

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Hi All
I'm looking to buy a couple of radios for bike to bike communications, can some one give advice on which ones are the best within the price range of about £100 for the pair thanks:D
 
The de-facto standard of PMR radios is the Kenwood TK3201, solidly built, military standard, robust and reliable. Used ones tend to sell on eBay for around the £50-60 mark so should be around your budget.

The alternative is a pair of Puxing PX888s; these are Far East built and available from Hong Kong via eBay and directly from a few suppliers over there. They are solid, decent radios all things considered. However, these do not comply with OFCOM regs for PMR so are technically illegal in the UK. Namely: They have the ability to transmit outside of the PMR 446.00625 MHz to 446.09375 MHz frequency range, transmit at 4W (OFCOM regs say 0.5W) and have a detachable antenna. The last point is a bit of a grey area as you can legally modify an approved radio to take an external antenna so long as the resulting transmitted power still doesn't exceed 0.5W ERP. PX888s are about £45 delivered. The PX888 uses the Kenwood accessory socket so it can be connected to intercoms and headsets interchangeably using the same leads.

Don't be fooled into thinking that 4W vs. 0.5W will mean eight times the range for the more powerful set. As well as the inverse square law there are many other factors that mean you will get more, just not as much as you think...

The enforcement of what kit you have shouldn't really be an issue on a bike as you're a moving target and are not going to be a nuisance (i.e. washing out the signal of other PMR users) for very long. If you were, for example, running security for a night club or using them on a building site then there might be a complaint that would lead to an investigation as you would be transmitting from one location for days on end. On a bike you're usually out of range and not an issue within minutes or less.

If you don't have intercoms or suitable headsets then your budget is woefully inadequate I'm sorry to say. You need proper noise cancelling mics otherwise you're going to be very frustrated with the results over 30-40mph. Best entry point would be an Autocom Active Rider Plus, these can be had for around £30-40 off eBay though you would need a few cables for an effective set-up. I would budget around £60-70 for each excluding the radio.

An alternative is the McKay headset, though unlike the Autocom adding other inputs isn't an option. The open face version has a good noise cancelling mic and works in all full face helmets I've tried. This has a PTT button included. PTT is vital, VOX just doesn't work on a bike unless you're using the VOX built into the likes of an Autocom unit, even so PPT is far better.

Also, locating a radio on a bike can be problematic, lie one down with the integral antenna and the range will be drastically compromised. An external antenna kit works really well but will run you another £45 odd. It really starts to add up.

I would say that your cheapest effective option would be a pair of Puxings, a pair of McKay headsets and a couple of bum bags with the radios upright, antenna poking out of the zipper. That would, I'm afraid, come to more like £100 each set-up.

Whatever you do don't go for the cheap Maplin/Argos hobby type radios and Maplin's so called M/C headset (or similar ones off eBay), they'll wind up in the bin after a few frustrating rides.
 
Thanks for the info Bumkin I have the Autocom unit so there is just a need for the PTT button my son will have to go with the bum bag approach
 
A couple of thoughts: If you do go down the Puxing route be careful as there are two models of PX888, both outwardly identical, your want the UHF model. The VHF version frequency range is too low for PMR.

Whilst carrying a radio in a bum bag is convenient it's not ideal on safety grounds. Whilst having an 'off' is never ideal doing so with a hard object strapped to your hip could make a big difference to the outcome. Having said that I do have an Autocom radio pouch I got off eBay for a fiver that I lend out whilst on tour along with a radio and McKay headset for fellow riders that want to use it.
 
thanks again Bumpkin, will look at the bum bag again. I will be setting mine up to run through the Autocom system, and I always ride with a top box (Kappa) on so the radio will be set up in there. Is it better to have an external aerial or use the one that comes with the set. Also do you need to make up your own PTT cable or can you get one off the shelf
 
thanks again Bumpkin, will look at the bum bag again. I will be setting mine up to run through the Autocom system, and I always ride with a top box (Kappa) on so the radio will be set up in there. Is it better to have an external aerial or use the one that comes with the set. Also do you need to make up your own PTT cable or can you get one off the shelf

This is the Autocom pouch that I got off eBay.

1023


Fits the radio with plenty of room to spare, you might just squeeze an Autocom Active Plus in there alongside. Using this with the McKay headset for my 'buddy' radio works well. The PTT switch we attach to the belt, not as convenient as on the handle bar but means no trailing wires.

Running yours though an Autocom should work very well. You will need the Kenwood lead and a PTT lead and switch. Both of these can usually be had off eBay for quite a bit less than retail. I don't particularly like the switch that comes with the Autocom PTT, as I don't use the switchable VOX or constant transmit features I cut the switch off and used a waterproof switch having made up a small, discrete bracket to attach it to the bottom of my left switch-gear.

I run my radio using these leads though an Autocom Super Pro Avi, very happy with performance. Radio is powered off the bike and and is also hooked up to a BO antenna kit. Practical range does vary with terrain/environment, somewhere between 2 and 5km in real world situations. The manufacturers of the cheaper mickey mouse hobby radios would have you believe that you'll be getting 6-8km everywhere which is absolute BS. Mountain top to mountain top with ideal atmospherics and a parabolic polished granite cliff conveniently behind, and pointing the right way, both transmitter and receiver... maybe... you get the idea. I use mine for group rides leader to TEC, with bigger groups you do loose contact some of the time. For 2 or three riders the external antenna is probably less important.

With the radio in a top box you should be OK so long as it's vertical and the top box isn't metal. The BO antenna kit should get you a bit more range as it's 1/2 wave and has a higher gain. I'm not too hot on the theory here TBH, only relaying what I've been told. I suggest trying the integral antenna inside the top box first and see how it goes. Especially if your son is using the integral antenna anyway.

2003
 
Three questions to the OP....

Why do you want to talk to your son on his bike (or him to you) whilst you ride along?

How often are you going to be out riding with your son?

Do you really need the radios at all?
 
Hi Wapping to answer your questions they are going to be used for touring and as he has a total lack of direction or knowing any decent roads, this way he can lead instead of following, that's one reason. I ride a decent bike with a 350 mile range he has a 150 mile range, that's two. and I don't know anyone with a 350 mile bladder.
As you do a lot of tours don't you use radios, bike 2 bike comms,
 
As you do a lot of tours don't you use radios, bike 2 bike comms,

I used to but gave the lot up.

Why?

1. The number of times we had to stop whilst someone had to fiddle with their radio.

2. The inane chatter.

3. I often ride a bike with a 16 or 17 litre tank; though I fail to see what fuel tank size has to do with radios.

If your son has no sense of direction or doesn't know any decent roads, he isn't going to learn if he has you sitting in his ear, giving instructions. Free yourself of the trappings and trimmings. Get used to riding together. In short, start to trust him and him you. You'll enjoy it more. Trust me.

PS Two radios for £50.... Google 'bike to bike radio' and take your pick.

Just about the only decent radios on the market are the Kenwoods; that's the reason why everyone buys them. Get them bike powered, or you'll be carting the chargers around, too. There is no point getting just one done with the illegal, but don't worry about it (so is speeding) remote aerial conversion or the unconverted radio won't have the same range, so won't be able to converse with you. PS Unless you can source them second hand, the Kenwood radios will be more than £50 a pop.

The latest generation Bluetooth devices are pretty good, easy to install, just whack 'em on your melon case, with the added bonus that you'll be able to listen to your Bluetooth GPS / MP3 player / phone without all the fiddle of an Autocom.... That's if you want phone on the go, music and all the other bells and whistles. Me? I'm just happy to have a GPS screen and no voice.
 
PS As to freeing yourself of the tyranny of radios. I guess you and your sone have survived since 2011 without them? :D

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?277346-Binatone-PMR&p=2816134&viewfull=1#post2816134

Seriously, you will be fine without them and enjoy your tour more. Two cheap radios will be more plague than profit. If your errant son hurtles off much beyond 800 yards (half a mile) he'll often be out of range, no matter what. You'll probably need to fit a Push To Talk (PTT) switch or some sort of Vox switch to both bikes and rig both helmets with at least one earpiece and a microphone..... All so you can say.... "Psshhhh, where.... Shhhhhh... are..... Sqshhhhhh... you?"

:beerjug:


PPS You are not a site subscriber. If you were you would be able to access the For Sale section, where bods often sell all sorts of kit for sometimes a significant discount. A search of the word Kenwood turned up lots of sales and of other complete radio kits, too. Since 2011 you'd have saved yourself the subs and be the proud owner of two very nice Kenwoods, all the ancillary bits, bells and whistles. You could also have sold them on, realising that you didn't need them, too.

As recently as 11 December 2013, a fellow sold two (yes two) Kenwoods and one charger for £50 the lot. In the same sale advert, another fellow gave away a second charger. You've missed your chance, but that's life.

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...d-TK3101-radios-and-charger&highlight=Kenwood
 
Seriously, you will be fine without them and enjoy your tour more.

Surely a subjective observation. Of course they could still enjoy a tour without them, the question is; will a comms link between riders of a group be a benefit? Personally I've found them useful both from a practical point of view as well as adding an extra dimension to the social aspect of touring. The practical aspects being: fuel, fatigue, wee stops as well as an extra pair of eyes both for warnings and general observation. Yes, each rider should obviously be responsible for their own forward observation but warnings of up-coming road hazards from the a rider in front are still welcome. As to the social aspect, in moderation and when appropriate a bit of chatter is no worse than talking to your passenger in a car.

Wapping said:
Two cheap radios will be more plague than profit.

I agree that cheap hobby radios such as the Binatone ones you referred to in your previous post will be more trouble that they are worth. Used Kenwoods or new Puxing sets would probably be close to your stated budget. The Kenwoods maybe marginally more robust but from my experience and that of others that have gone the same way the Puxings are not far behind. I have three 888s, none have given me any issues. I did have a battery eliminator fail on tour last year but that wasn't a Puxing product. Luckily we had spare batteries and a charger for the guy using my Autocom pouch.

As to having to stop and fiddle with the radios; we did a comms set-up and test day a couple of years back. Apart from that the radio comes on with the ignition as does the Autocom, radio stays on Kenwood channel #3 with volume set. Only stop and fiddle sessions I've had in memory was failure of the power supply last year and an earlier PTT switch failure two years ago (cheaper Maplins non weather-rproof switch, now resolved with decent all weather version).

Wapping said:
If your errant son hurtles off much beyond 800 yards (half a mile) he'll often be out of range, no matter what. You'll probably need to fit a Push To Talk (PTT) switch or some sort of Vox switch to both bikes and rig both helmets with at least one earpiece and a microphone..... All so you can say.... "Psshhhh, where.... Shhhhhh... are..... Sqshhhhhh... you?"

Range will be variable depending on terrain, so long as you understand and accept that you'll be fine. PTT is ideal, VOX can be unreliable and need some careful setting up to get working at it's optimum. VOX built into the radios is pointless for bike use, Starcom/Autocom is the only way to do that effectively. You'll still be transmitting singing, burps, expletives and the sound of loud exhausts in tunnels and off cliff faces (my VOX equipped touring buddy rides a 996 Ducati with Termigonis).

Set-up of the headsets in both helmets is critical for good performance, especially as the speed and wind-noise increase. As the OP has an Autocom already he hopefully understands that.

Putting together a decent comms system economically is feasible, doing it cheaply isn't. Hope that makes sense.
 
Yup, it's a subjective observation.

Many of the reasons you list as pluses are the very reasons I got to dislike radios, after thousands of miles with the things.

20 miles into a 300 mile day and it starts.... "Fred says he's got to have a leak".... 40 miles in.... "Rob is asking when will be stopping for lunch?".... 60 miles in.... "I think six of them are behind us, at the lights, I'm not sure, I will go back".... Two other bods without radios will then stop to wonder why one bloke has turned around for no apparent reason. Of these two, one will turn around as well but has now lost sight of the fellow he is following and turns the wrong way. Meanwhile, the other fellow will remember he wanted some cigarettes, so will abandon his bike and go looking for some, probably in the local carpet shop or hairdressers. The fellows who were at the lights, will by now have seen them go green and will be riding forward, to encounter our other friend coming back towards them. He will wave his arm in a circular motion, indicating that he's seen them and intends to himself turn around. The six will misunderstand his intentions and turn around themselves..... Eventually they sort themselves out.... But are now on the wrong side of the lights, so they wait.... Green.... Away they go.... To find chummy's bike abandoned... They stop (or maybe not).... And so the whole circus continues.... Interrupted only by some bods on radios going.... "what's going on, is it a lunch stop, I think I have just seen Charlie or maybe it wasn't". The sharp eyed amongst you will have noticed that one fellow went to find cigarettes.... But one fellow vanished entirely....


And I like touring :blast :beerjug:
 
Three of us, all subscribers here and licensed ham operators fitted out our bikes with 2meter/70cms sets with external antennas etc etc for a trip down to the Italian Alps a few years back. Spoke together at our early morning meet point to check all was ok. Rode away and by the time we had reached the M11 (30 miles) all were switched off. Didn't need the noise or distraction inside my helmet nor did the other two guys. Never used them again.
 
Re: Puxing px-888`s

Can anyone post a screen print of the channel settings for the Puxing software using the Kenwood PMR frequencies, as I want to program a pair of Puxing 888`s
besides the actual frequencies in columns 1 & 2, I`m not sure if I have the correct additional settings in columns 3 through to 14
Any additional advice or walk through guide to program these radios would also be greatly appreciated
 
Here are the settings from my 777. PM me your email and I can send you the .sin file, if you like......or rather, you could PM me if you paid your subs.
 

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Thanks, I now have a pair of new Puxing 888 UHF`s (which came yesterday in the post) which require programing, several spare batteries, a battery eliminator and a BO antenna kit.
So it looks like I`m going to be busy this weekend trying to mount them & set them up. initially I intend to run the radios off the batteries
 


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