'Pinking' or more correctly 'Detonation' an explaination.

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The Mechanic

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Many of you fellow GS'ers have mentioned 'Pinking' and 'Knocking' as heard coming from your engines at various times.

Pinking is the laymans term for what is more correctly known as DETONATION.

Detonation is where a small pocket of unburnt fuel is cornered in an area of the combustion chamber that suddenly explodes rather than rapidly burns.

The combustion process is quite complex as this is where most money is spent when developing any cylinder head for any engine.

Air and fuel are mixed (its the oxygen that we need for power) usually above the inlet valve on carb fed engines and thence in the combustion chamber where a swirl effect takes place to help create an even mixture (air and fuel mix).On fuel injected designs this may be either direct injection or as in the case of the Boxer similar to the carb method. Just before TDC (top dead centre) say for example 12 degrees Before TDC the ignition provides an externally generated spark (2 plugs in the case of the 1150) which ignites the mixture and this burns rapidly expanding many thousands of times its own volume which gives us the force or push on top of the piston POWER STROKE.

Many people assume incorrectly that when the spark plug 'sparks' the fuel mix explodes, if this were the case then the piston crown would be destroyed before anyone had done a mile or less.

So its a rapid burn we need, but if as previously mentioned a pocket of fuel/air mix is not part of the rapid burn then the heat build up causes this pocket to explode, which in turn generates the knocking sound or pinking effect. if detonation is allowed to continue unchecked then severe engine damage will result.

Poor combustion chamber design is the main causal reason for detonation, whilst ignition timing allied with air leaks can also create the same symptoms. Worn valve stem oil seals that allow an excess of oil into the combustion chamber (drawn in down the inlet vave stem on the induction stroke) will obviuosly lower the octane rating of the fuel and thus provide the ingredients for detonation.

As the boxer engine takes a fair old while to bed in (run-in) it would not be unreasonable to expect that in heavy traffic and possibly after a fair blast that on deceleration to say traffic lights you could just draw a residue of oil into the combustion chamber and then experience knocking (detonation).

Many cars do this and some Jap bikes but the components are so much smaller that the effects usually to untrained ears go unnoticed.

Pre-ignition is a condition brought about by some particle such as carbon on the piston or in the combution chamber glowing as an ember in a fire, this causes the engine to 'run on' even though the ignition may be killed. Never switch your engine off at anything over idle speed unless it is an emergency situation as this to couls case running-on.

If your car or bike appears to be running-on its serious and needs to be stopped straight away, try stalling the engine otherwise things like timing chains, belts or worse could break!

Hope you enjoyed the read, I teach this stuff for a living and I've tried to condense the info down from a two hour lesson into a more manageable 5 mins... enjoy.
 
Thanks for the Mechanic...........most informative:)

I have the car in the photo.

1972 vintage and runs well apart from the running on syndrome.

Any advice greatly received :(

CC

:cool:
 

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So you bought it!

Looks like a Vanden Plas 1300 to me, if it is it'll have twin SU carbs
or possibly a single 1 3/4 SU. Depends on who owned it before you and exactly what model it is.

These cars along with all the other derivatives were quite good in their day althougth the build quality left alot to be desired, the suspension caused many owners to feel sea sick due to the floaty ride induced by the hydrolastic system.

Running on was also a problem with mainly the twin carb versions. Here are some suggestions to possibly help you:

1 Ensure that the ignition timing is set accurately, make sure that the distributor advance weights and springs are intake and not seized up. If I remember the timing at idle should be 12 degrees BTDC ( may be wrong here ). This is checked with the vacuum pipe disconnected and blocked.

2 The mixture setting using an exhaust gas analyser should be 3.5%CO at an idle speed of 700 rpm (+/- 50rpm) again I'm delving along way back so forgive me if I'm a bit out.

3 Make sure that the vacuum capsule (on the dizzy) is not perished, this will cause an air bleed into the inlet manifold and produce a weak mixture and a too high idle speed.

4 Ensure that the vacuum pipe from the carb to the dizzy is not allowing air in.

5 The carb throttle spindle may be worn and allowing air in where its not supposed to.

6 Check the brake servo pipe is also not perished or leaking, thats the vacuum pipe from the manifold to the servo unit.

7 Has the cylinder head been modified to run un leaded if it has then you will need to RETARD the ignition to about 6 degrees before TDC.

Hope this helps.
 
Diesels too?

ahh the joys of having an expert on hand........


running on - I have a diesel Iveco 35-10 van that I use to haul my race dogs about in. Occasionally, the engine keeps on going even when I'm standing beside the van with the ignition keys in my hand. Only way to stop it seems to be to jump back in and stall it.
Likely causes ? and any cheap cures......

Thanks
 
WhadaGuy..................!

Mechanic,

You are spot on with the Model........1300 twin Carb version;)

You have given me plenty to go at there.

I don't believe it has been converted so am using the LR additive.

It is ticking over a wee bit fast so I will get under the Bonnet this weekend and go through your check list..........:(

I'll get back to you with result(s)

Cheers,

CC


:cool:
 
SNODOG

Iveco CI engine running on. Its ages since I looked at one of these but if it has an electric (ignition powered) fuel shut-off solenoid valve its probably either harbouring some small dirt particles or its breaking down.

You can check this by first looking at the injection pump and see if there is a (possibly) black wire going to what looks like (similar in size to a small bottle of Tippex) a small cylindrical barrel, usually on the top of the pump.

Check that the electical connections are in good order and tight (its only a small terminal so be careful).

You could remove the connection and with the ignition turned on touch the feed wire to the solenoid terminal post you should hear a small click N.B. you mat feel the click more than hear it.

If you are brave you could take out the solenoid and inspect the end of the plunger for damage to the seal (tip of plunger) whilst it is out prime the lift pump to force some clean fuel through.

PLEASE DO NOT GO AND FIRE DIESEL INTO YOUR EYES TAKE CARE.

It is imperative that all the fuel filters are replaced/drained as the service schedule otherwise problems will occur.

If I'm mistaken about the pump type and you have something different then it could be the pump rack settings to pot. Have you tinkered with any sealed adjusters at all?

And lastly if the vave stem oil seals are letting oil in then the engine could well be running on the sump oil!

If the engine is turbo-charged then again there could be an oil seal leakage problem at the compressor side allowing oil into the inlet tract. This is similar to the above except that in some cases I've experienced engines going max revs with no control until the sump oils used up, normally a tremendous bang is heard before the oil gets consumed. Expensive.

Make sure all linkages and pipe work are free of binding and resticted movement (bit like me and my bad back at the moment)
and ensure that the air filter is clean and dry.

May be this is of some use to you.

One last thought, is the pump timing correct only 1-2 degrees out can cause big problems.
 


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