R1150gs 2001, decat (with Y-pipe) and remus exhaust, no cold start without throttle

[fullbuster79]

So, as the title says, my R1150gs won't cold start unless I twist the throttle a few times.

I've bought the bike some months ago as is basically. The previous owner removed the cat, fitted a Y pipe from black widow. It has a remus exhaust and a tehclusion unit fitted to it.

After the bike warms up (around 5 lines on the electronic display) it works somewhat ok, though when starting from a standstill (like waiting at a redlight) it seems to struggle for the first few seconds (around 1000 to 2000 RPM), but after that it works well.

I've changed the air filter, spark plugs and had the throttle bodies synchronized but the problem persists.

I'm suspecting either clogged injectors or maybe some split hoses inside the tank but I'm not sure how to check for that. Besides what I'm thinking is that if either of those were the case the bike would have issues throughout the whole rev range not just at the bottom.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[fullbuster79]

Just came back from checking injectors and techlusion unit.

I've pulled the injectors out and turned the engine over to see if there's any fuel coming out. Indeed there was fuel but I noticed two things:
1. The injectors don't look like the regular ones (with the plastic white cap at the end) instead they have 4 holes and no plastic cap.
2. The flow seemed a bit weak (compared to what I've seen on other people's youtube videos) although I'm not sure how it should look like since the injectors look different. So this observation might be wrong.

Another thing I've done is adjust the techlusion to base values using a multimeter. I wanted to rule this out even though they advertise it as "You can't use it wrong".

Something else worth noting is that when revving (even when in neutral) the engine seems to want to stall if I twist the throttle too quickly, but it revs fine after passing the lower rev range.

Later Edit: When starting the bike I am using the choke.

 

[theoneandonly]

make life easy take the " techlusion unit " out of the equation . go from there.

5 bars on your RID is HOT ! not warm.

choke ...it is a post cold start, fast idle lever.

pictures help.

there will be someone along, much smarter than me, soon.

 

[fullbuster79]

make life easy take the " techlusion unit " out of the equation . go from there.

5 bars on your RID is HOT ! not warm.

choke ...it is a post cold start, fast idle lever.

pictures help.

there will be someone along, much smarter than me, soon.

I said choke since my last bike was a carburated one so I got used to that. My bad.

On the other hand the way you wrote that, "post cold start, fast idle" makes me think that I should not need to use it when starting the bike. Did I get that right?
If that's true then when should it be used?

Thanks!

 

[Dwaine Dibbley]

Don’t the newer 1200 injectors have the 4 hole spray pattern?
It might of had that upgrade.

 

[theoneandonly]

I said choke since my last bike was a carburated one so I got used to that. My bad.

On the other hand the way you wrote that, "post cold start, fast idle" makes me think that I should not need to use it when starting the bike. Did I get that right?
If that's true then when should it be used?

Thanks!

like it says , after a cold start , once it runs normally ( 15s) knock it off.

ps. mine is broken ...don't miss it .

 

[fullbuster79]

like it says , after a cold start , once it runs normally ( 15s) knock it off.

ps. mine is broken ...don't miss it .

I knock it off after it runs normally but it usually takes around 5 minutes for that to happen.

Don’t the newer 1200 injectors have the 4 hole spray pattern?
It might of had that upgrade.

That could be. Think that's what might be causing the issue?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

Don’t the newer 1200 injectors have the 4 hole spray pattern?
It might of had that upgrade.

The original R1150 injectors also have a 4 hole spray pattern.

I think you might be referring to the “Tills” upgrade kit which provided a matched pair of 1200 injectors, which many R1150 owners opted to fit in the hope of smoothing out the surging and provide better performance.

 

[fullbuster79]

Reading more on the matter I'm also looking into hall sensor issues. People report poor starting and loss of power when the hall sensor has issues so that might also be a possibility.

 

[GORILA]

Also consider rebuilding your throttle bodies! They wear out over time, making balancing awkward. Dan Catta (also Rumanian I believe) supplies repair kits.

 

[fullbuster79]

So I went to a guy that had a diagnosis tool and it seems to report hall sensor issues.

I've called a person that reconditions hall sensor units to ask about the price and he mentioned that hall sensor errors always show up if the engine isn't running or at least turning. He recommended rebuilding the throttle bodies, just like you said.

What I'm thinking now is reconditioning the throttle bodies and taking the hall sensor out to check the connections and maybe send it to the guy to recondition it. I was thinking to do it myself but I think you need some special heat-resistant wires which I don't think I can get anywhere.

The hall sensor rebuild/recondition is around $100. If I can find a throttle body rebuild kit I might try doing that part myself to save some money and only pay for the hall sensor and the throttle rebuild kit itself.

I was hoping the issue was less complicated but what can you do.

 

[Steptoe]

I very much doubt it’s a hall sensor problem, they don’t have any wearing parts, if they fall even intermittently the engine stops completely, the hall sensor doesn’t cause rough running or minor running problems.

 

[fullbuster79]

Returning with a very late update since fixing this took a long time.

So after leaving the bike for around a month to a mechanic that did absolutely nothing to it, I towed it back home. Maybe two or three months later (I can't recall exactly) I found a guy that was an actual mechanic and took the bike on a platform to him. The main issue seems to have been that the metal tank was rusted out of its mind. Having had a previous treatment applied to it (of which I was not informed by the previous owner, he probably didn't know himself either) both rust and flakes from the treatment were clogging the injections system. I ended up swapping the tank for a plastic one.

The funny thing is that, while at his shop to pick up the bike, it was running fine up to the point of me hopping on it to leave. As I turned the throttle the bike stalled. Left the bike there so the guy can look again at it. Turns out the wires for the HAL sensor were corroded so he "reconditioned" it for me (changed the wires and resoldered them).

I didn't have time to pick it up but I'm going to do it this week. Hopefully no more major issues in sight haha.

Hope this helps someone that has a similar issue.

 

[Mzokk]

If the inside of the tank is rusty it must have been sitting for a while. The tank on my regularly used 2002 model is perfectly clean inside.

 

[Riceburner]

Couple of extra things it would be good to know.

Is it a twin or single spark?

Is the Lambda sensor screwed into the Y-piece?

 

[fullbuster79]

Yeah, it probably sat for a long while before I bought it. I know the previous owner did hold it in a garage but he told me it sat unused for a long time before he bought it.

 

[fullbuster79]

If single spark means one spark plug per cylinder then yes, it's a single spark.
I'll have to check the lambda sensor. Do you know where the location for it should be in the y-piece?

 

[fullbuster79]

Sorry to revive this old thread but having fixed the bike I thought I'd add a few updates in case it helps anyone.
So, to recap the things I did:

• Switched my metal fuel tank to a polycarbonate / plastic one. The old one was very rusted on the inside. Someone before me probably added a coating as well and both rust and coating were flaking which probably caused my injectors to clog.
• Switched my hall sensor to a new aftermarket one I bought off of eBay from some people in Greece (iirc)
• Removed the Techlusion chip
• Removed the yellow code plug

My black widow Y-pipe cat delete thing has a lambda sensor.
It is a single spark (only one spark plug per cylinder).

After all this was done the bike seems to run well, no more random shut-offs and even though the bike seems to be surging when at Low RPMs (between 2500 and 2900 I think) it doesn't bother me that much.

I've taken it off roading through some deep mud, puddles in a forest and it did surprisingly well. The only issue I had was the bike was over heating. My understanding is that it is expected behaviour since even though it has liquid cooling there is no fan so it relies on air going through the radiator and cylinder heads.

The temperature gauge was showing all 10 (?) bars so I had to take some breaks and let it cool every once in a while but that didn't seem to damage anything to the engine as it's still running smoothly after a month or so.