R60/5 Starting problems

[BillN]

Hi guys - any ideas - what do I look for first

1973 R60/5 - BB electronic ignition, fitted when I bought it so don't have original (points system)

Always started very well and was OK a few weeks ago - now just wont fire

NO spark at EITHER plug

2 x 6 volt coils

petrol seems to be OK

Battery fine - turns over OK - but they have never been spirited at turning over

ignition light comes on when I flick the switch - it is the headlight mounted "key" system that has been converted to a simple switch, (long time ago).

I know nothing about the Boyer Branson (?) electronic system?? - but I though that they were fool proof

If only one coil had gone - would I still get one spark!

All the wires from the Boyer Bransden seems OK - from the red box to the stator and to earth and the coil(s), and back to the battery which is fused - fuse is OK


Any ideas

help

 

[MickDB1]

If you have had the front cover off the alternator housing you may have trapped and earthed a wire
DAMHIKT

 

[BillN]

If you have had the front cover off the alternator housing you may have trapped and earthed a wire
DAMHIKT

Thanks Mick

no it's not that

just no spark - the "red box" on the electronic ignition is sealed - I jst suspect the BB electronic ignition

I've looked at everything

check all the wiring

Changed the plugs

squirted petrol in the cylinders

just will not fire

both coils cannot have gone, (can they) and the BB electronic ignition system was very well fitted - proper loom etc.

just do not know?

 

[bumpmuncher]

kill switch on the handle bar

 

[BillN]

Thanks

There's no kill switch on the \5s .......... but I've effectively got one on two of the headlight shell - which works

but, that's something to think about - ignition light is on but is the ignition OK

it all looks OK to me but it's in the headlight shell - a few hours work to get at it and a bugger to put back

 

[BillN]

Thanks again - guys - keep the comments coming

Interestingly I posted the same question on the "Club" at the same time - no replies from the P & S lot versus 2 on here

 

[bumpmuncher]

not knowing the BB system dont know if this will work. but have you tried a feed from the battery direct to the + on the ign coil (a la the old fashioned way to hotwire cars equipped with points ignition)



here is the trouble shooting section of the BB site
http://www.boyerbransden.com/faultfinding.html

 

[SJRoome]

Hi

Is the BB unit the one that assists the points rather than replacing them? If it is disconnect the BB unit and just put the wiring back to use the points.

Check the coils by replacing the wire from the BB to the coils with a wire that you tap on an earth while observing the sparkplug. The plug must be on the cylinder head so that it is earthed. If you have a multimeter measure the resistance of the coils. Should be about 1.5 Ohm each.

If one coil fails you dont get either spark as they are in series. THis is most likely the cause of the problem. If the coils test OK then check the BB unit is getting 12V and is earthed.


Steve

 

[BillN]

Thanks Steve

The BB system replaces the set up - does not assist - sounds like a coil - need a couple of VW 6 volt ones then

BB unit is wired OK and earthed - the only wire I cannot see is the one to the ignition - but the ignition works so all should be OK

I've got a spare 12v mid 1980's paralever (Bosch) coil - I should be able to check it with that

Cheers

 

[BillN]

Anyone near Winchester got a couple of suitable 6v coils I could buy?

I need to get the Bike fixed asap

 

[MickDB1]

Just had another brain fart
I have read somewhere that one test of the coils is to flick the ignition on and off - whilst the plugs are out of the head but earthed well to the engine
It should spark once if the coils are working - I think

 

[DrFarkoff]

Bill Is the wire tween the coils okay??

If not you have a dead circuit a Bulb tween the positive and ground wire (this is the switched one) and turning over will tell you if your LT circuit is good! if the bulb is flickering

 

[John Roberts]

... one test of the coils is to flick the ignition on and off - whilst the plugs are out of the head but earthed well to the engine
It should spark once if the coils are working - I think

I think that the points/contacts would have to closed for it to produce a spark, but one spark would be produced when you switch on and another when you switch off. Oh, and by the way, I don't know anything about the BB system. It might be easier to have one plug in the cylinder when checking, it would be easier to ground only one plug, they both fire at the same time.

 

[BillN]

Thanks guys - will try those tomorrow

The Bike is due for a new set of coils - they are the original - so I'll replace them first and see what happens

Keep the ideas coming - I useless on electrics with those circuit tester things - but I have a mate up the road who knows what he is doing so I do what I can before I bother him

Not a word from the P & S brethren yet - must be too new for them

Cheers

 

[BillN]

another quick question - does the BB electronic ignition run with the standard 1970 to 1980 Bosch coils

(The BMs that had an electronic ignition fitted have different coils)

 

[SJRoome]

Hi

There is no way of knowing how the BB's electronics will react to Mick's proposed test.

The BB will work with the standard 1970 to 1980 coils. I had one for a while on a R60/7. I removed it because I did not like what its advance/retard characteristic did to the bikes torque curve.

The BB replaces the points with a hall effect sensor. In my earlier post I failed to remember that the points assist module that I had on my R60/7 was one I designed and built myself (I did electronics research then so had access to the test gear).

Steve

 

[BillN]

I have ordered a couple of new coils - they should be here tomorrow - so I'll fit them and see what happens

It the past if I have had coil problems I have been given some notice - i.e. the situation just gradually worsened

Thanks to all for their advice

 

[BillN]

Two new 6 volts coils - still no luck

anyone know anyone in the Hampshire area who I can take it to?

 

[SJRoome]

Hi

I'm in Fleet in NE Hampshire if you would like someone else with experience to have a go at diagnosing the fault. I dont have any relevant parts though so if the BB has gone bang you will still have to order and fit a new one later.


Steve

 

[BillN]

Hi

I'm in Fleet in NE Hampshire if you would like someone else with experience to have a go at diagnosing the fault. I dont have any relevant parts though so if the BB has gone bang you will still have to order and fit a new one later.


Steve

Can I PM you Steve or send me a PM with your contact details and i CAN CALL YOU - that would be great if we could meet up