R65GS Charging problem?

hippo

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Well, an interesting 1st commute on the R65GS yesterday – which I’ve got on the road to be my winter bike.
It started innocuously enough starting easily and though traffic was horrible as usual it rode ok. It strted fine on the E/S at 5pm too until after about 15mins of horrible traffic it just cut out without warning.
Checked over and there was no power. Lights were dim and the E/S wouldn’t work.
After a few minutes I got it started using the K/S and it lasted another ½ mile when it cut out again. I switched to sidelights and the engine cut back in again (old Bantam trick!) but cut out again another ½ mile later.
I gave up and phoned the RAC since the lights were dim again.
About 15mins later the lights were bright again. There was still no E/S but it did kick up.
I rode it an area of lights and habitation when it cut out once more. Once again lights were really dim.
The RAC weren’t too long and diagnosed no charge reaching the battery. They gave me a good 10mins charge and the bike started ok. They followed home just on the one charge though I rode on sidelights.
Strangely however, I was able to restart it on the E/S at home and it started on E/S this morning too – almost as if it had recharged on the way home.
So what is the issue? Clearly it was a charging issue but I’d rode it into work ok with lights and grips on without a problem and it still started ok (didn’t have grips on coming home) at 5pm.
Could it be the alternator, the charging diodes or the regulator … or none of them. Any ideas?
I Will need to get it checked out for peace of mind but I hope it is not one of those annoying transient problems where you just have to replace everything
I Will need to fix the charging light though which I now find isn’t working.
Any idea where to start anyone?
 
I Will need to fix the charging light though which I now find isn’t working.

Any idea where to start anyone?

a big clue there. the alternator rotor's almost certainly gone.

you need to take the front cover off the engine, isolate the brushes from the slip rings with a bit of paper and check continuity between the rings with a multi meter. if there's no reading, it's knackered.

new one is about £60 + a few quid for the special tool need to remove the old rotor. 15 minute job.
 
should be around 3 ohm's also check the earth conections :thumb

Edit
is the charge light not working at all ? the lamp is part of the circuit and I believe it needs to be working. hopefully someone will be along with a far better explanation than I can manage :blast
 
should be around 3 ohm's also check the earth conections :thumb

Edit
is the charge light not working at all ? the lamp is part of the circuit and I believe it needs to be working. hopefully someone will be along with a far better explanation than I can manage :blast

there will probably be no reading at all ie. open circuit. otherwise 3ohm is probably about right.

the lamp is part of the circuit. if the rotor goes o/c it will not light and if the lamp goes there's no charge.

IME it's always the rotor.
 
As I understand it, the power for therotor in the charging system runs through the red light on the dash. If the bulb blows, then the rotor gets no power, and no longer works as an electro-magnet. Result - no charging system.
That's why I fitted an EME stator and rotor system to my PD. With the EME system, the rotor IS an electromagnet, and does not rely on the charging bulb to complete the circuit.
 
there will probably be no reading at all ie. open circuit. otherwise 3ohm is probably about right.

the lamp is part of the circuit. if the rotor goes o/c it will not light and if the lamp goes there's no charge.

IME it's always the rotor.

with my last rotor failure the resistance was 1.5 ohm so caused me a little confusion because it didn't show an open circuit :D:blast:blast




As I understand it, the power for therotor in the charging system runs through the red light on the dash. If the bulb blows, then the rotor gets no power, and no longer works as an electro-magnet. Result - no charging system.

:thumb2 yes thats what I wanted to say

Also have you recently taken the front engine cover off ? because sometimes when you put it back on you can trap and brake the charge light wire :blast
 
It's obviusly scrap Hippo. Being as you live nearby I'll do you a favour and give you a few bob for it. It'll save you lots of heartache :beerjug:
 
It's obviusly scrap Hippo. Being as you live nearby I'll do you a favour and give you a few bob for it. It'll save you lots of heartache :beerjug:

don't worry Rob you don't need any more German scrap. I will take it away for him and before Brassmonkey offers his usual I will up the offer by 50p and a packet of chocolate hobnobs :thumb2:thumb2
 
A few pointers here

alternatorquicktest.jpg


AlternatorTest.jpg


Diodetest.jpg
 
oooh hobnobs. I am tempted.
Just taken the front cover off.... looks very clean in there (and thats about my limit on elecrics more complicated than the usual Lucas/Triumph electrics)
Checked the charging light bulb - there is no light at all so I guess no charging, but the bulb does work.
i'm learning a bit more about the system as I go on but from the helpful info received (thanks) it looks like it might be the rotor. also looks like it should be within my capabilities to change once i've fashioned an extractor.
its all a bit strange though. done about 75miles on it now and used sidelights at least half that time. still starting on the electric too and surprised at that if there is no charge at all
 
A few pointers here

...........

Rob,

Which manual are the pictures in your post from? My machine suffered similar symptoms as the OP's last night... Charge light on constantly, resulting in a flat battery and an AA escort home :blast after putting some power into the battery which seems to be holding its charge well.

I've no idea how to approach this so any pointers (such as those shown) would be of great help :thumb

After some light reading, it sounds as though it can't be the rotor if the warning lights on, as it's powered by the rotor windings. So what does that leave in the chain? Is the diode board the most likely suspect?
 
It's from the BMW Paralever manual. Freebie here http://www.berettaconsulting.com/other/R80GS.pdf

It can be the rotor if the lights on, it can also be the rotor if the light doesn't come on so you need a multimeter to read the resistance of the windings.

Yep will do.. just need to find the fecking multimeter first :blast

Anyway, cheers for the link Rob. Will report back with my findings tomorrow :thumb
 
I'm in London again tomorrow. If I see smoke on the Horizon I'll known it went badly ;)
 
my rotor was fine - it was the regulator ... though it took a BMW 'specialist' 2 days labour to find that out
 
If he was such a specialist, then surely just swapping VR
out and replacing with known good one would have been quicker? Same
Procedure for the diode board etc. once you know it is not the rotor(which you did),
It narrows down the variables!
Hope he didn't charge 2 days labour though.
 
The problem was RPM sensative, in that the charge light wouldn't come on until you opened it up a bit. I read through Snowbums site, and soldered in some new brushes which seems to have cured the problem. They were really worn, the rear brush being quite substantially more knackered than the front. Should this give any cause for concern, and is there anything else that I should consider doing before running the bike?

There was quite a lot of grit in amongst it all as well so did my best to clean it all off.

Thanks, Benjamin :thumb
 


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