Rattling clutch/gearbox noise. 09 GSA.

[MWH]

Hi all, recently whilst stationary I noticed a rattle from down below that reduced when the clutch was pulled in. I did what everyone would do, I went to Google!

Lots of results in random places with not much help except replace stuff until noise goes. I'll list what the causes "could" be

1) Rockershaft end float. Not sure how but mine are all within spec
2)Felt spacer on pushrod. Easy change for not too much money I guess.
3)Worn pushrod. Which bit? Overall length shorter from wear?
4)Clutch slave cylinder issue. Couldn't find out what internal part would be the problem.
5) Worn splines on clutch plate/gearbox output shaft.
6)Some kind of damper on shaft inside gearbox.

Think that's all in the easiest to harder option. If I took the slave cylinder off and it stopped that would eliminate the clutchplate/gearbox if the rattle stopped. If it didn't pulling the pushrod back so it wasn't engaged may point to an issue there, holding it in place with light pressure may indicate the worn felt spacer. Last 2 is obviously gearbox off, one is an easy check and the other is gearbox apart or probably easier to get a secondhand box as the shaft is expensive!

Have I missed anything? Has anyone gone through this? Bike has around 46,000 easyish miles as I dont really wrag it about.

 

[Blackblade-rry]

I had what I considered a serious rattle on my 08 GS. It was noticeable whilst on the move as well, but obviously at slower speeds and less wind noise it was more prominent. On mine it was No.6 on your list, the input shaft damper, that had cracked in a number of places. You are right in stating you have to get the whole shaft, as the damper is not available as a separate item. It was about £450 if memory serves me correct.
Although I'm ok with spanners, I didn't have the facilities or the inclination to split the bike and gearbox myself, so it went to Mikeyboy from here to sort. For info, mine had only done 30k, I bought the bike new, so I know it hasn't been mistreated.

 

[MWH]

From what I've read i reckon I'm number 6. One guy reckon he rode with it like this for 30,000 miles with no issue, another person says don't do it as it will lock your gearbox up!! Usual Internet, black is white lol.

 

[Pukmeister]

Mine was the same, input shaft damper cage had split open 90% of the way around.

New input shaft cost me almost £500 plus new bearings, seals and a new clutch friction plate and bolts.

Repaired the gearbox over a weekend, rode it to the South of France and back, then part-ex’d it for a used 1250GSA.

 

[MWH]

Is it straightforward to replace? As in take apart, take out and drop in or is it measure lots and special tools? Maybe I should get a 1250 and not do it!!

 

[Pukmeister]

Is it straightforward to replace? As in take apart, take out and drop in or is it measure lots and special tools? Maybe I should get a 1250 and not do it!!

You need to make a simple wooden jig to hold the gearbox as per the Haynes bible, then use a heat gun to expand the cases from the shaft bearings, then prise off the outer casing revealing the gear clusters.

It’s like a big Meccano set, take it all apart, drop in the new input shaft that comes pre-built with new bearings, then rebuild it all in reverse.

I used the 20 Ton bearing press frame at work to remove the bearings on the other shafts and replace with new, which meant using a long set of Mitutoyo digital calipers to measure the overall shaft lengths to check they are in tolerance as per the BMW REPROM repair data specifications.

Another option is to get Mikeyboy to repair the gearbox for you if you want it done for peace of mind.

 

[MWH]

Cheers, sounds a little beyond my abilities, take it you replaced the other bearings as it was apart as opposed to needing them?

 

[MWH]

Do you reckon the bike is still OK to use it is it a potential safety issue. As in are there bits floating around or is it a big bit that will just sit in the bottom of the gearbox.

 

[dashfixer]

I had exactly the same thing, a rattle with the engine running and bike in neutral which reduced massively when the clutch was pulled in. So clutch or gearbox. I split the bike took the gearbox off and opened it up. It was like it had just come out of the factory, not bad for a bike with 88k on it. There was some play between the clutch plate and gearbox input shaft, so as I was in there I changed the friction plate even though there was still half the serviceable thickness on it. The result is less rattle and confidence that the damper isn't disintegrating and about to jam the rear wheel.

It isn't a difficult job just a bit time consuming, it didn't help having to drill and helicoil one of the sub-frame bolts, but that's life!

 

[Mad Hatter]

Mikeyboy is the man for this

 

[Pukmeister]

When the cage splits, it literally peels apart.

 

[G5RJO]

I had this issue years ago, my bike is an 08 GSA.

I went down the route of changing the felt pad on the pushrod, it helped, but soon came back as bad as ever.

When the bike hit about 40k miles (from memory), I decided to play Meccano and split it in half and added a shiny new clutch and pressure plate.... I also added another new felt pad on the pushrod for good measure, `and fitted a new pushrod as it was a touch worn.... Unsure why I bothered as the clutch looked like new, but as it was in half, seemed like a good idea.....

Anyway, with a few miles the rattle was back. For clarity, this is the rattle that goes away as soon as you load up the clutch lever.

Not ridden the bike since September 2022, but that's another story that can be found elsewhere on here, but it was on about 130,000 miles when it was 'parked' in the garage.

What I'm saying here is that it did another circa 90k miles after the rattle was so bad that I split the bike. I routinely did engine and gearbox oils every 6k miles, and before any big tour that would push me through a 6k mark... it was well over-serviced.

Gearbox oil came out as clean as it went in, It never looked like it was going to let go, and there was no suggestion that it was eating itself or something was wearing out badly... I rattled, it was the way it was, I chose to ignore it, it was fine... call it character....

If I decided to get it up and running again, and the only reason it's not up and running is down to me, not the bike, I reckon it would do another 100k miles without issue other than it lets you know it's running by rattling a bit...

Roger.

 

[DrFarkoff]

I have heard of this on very "rare" occasions Usually its just "there" not banging and clattering

One guy brought it to me and the slightest load on the Clutch lever removed the noise It really was not that loud and only when hot like sitting in heavy traffic

I even drained the gear oil out of it to double check for sparkles or debris and there was none just the usual fuzzy drain plug and he said "Only 3000 miles on it! Stick it back in!!!"

I suggested trying heavier gear oil than the EP75W90 fully synth that he had in it ( I used to use it all the time but changed to normal "heavier" oils in the box and FD)

He then went and got someone else to do all of the above later that summer, as I told him I was sure he was wasting his money
The bike was fresh and clean and well looked after ,but they did the clutch Input shaft Pushrod etc etc, as I was fairly sure that it was just a "thing" Definitely not noisy when cold, just a gentle rattle when at full temp in traffic!

and it was Exactly the same !!

Try EP90 GL5 (GL5 spec is a MUST for BMW dry clutch boxes <--rough Guideline!!) Its the Oil spec

And if you are draining oil you can see if you have any sparkles or chunks that will give you a heads up if there is something very wrong in there !

It's cheap and its quick and it may help ??

As to the full answer?? You could spend thousands chasing the dragon only to find it is "a thing"

Making sure your throttle stepper motors / vac balance is close, can also help Perhaps a bad stepper motor causing a laggy cylinder and setting up a vibration

 

[MWH]

Cheers for the input everyone.

It's due a service so I'll do that first and inspect the old oil try the heavier oil, take it i could use that in the FD as well? It could do with a throttle balance, how can I check the stepper motors are OK? I have an old GS911 and Motoscan.

Do people park the steppers while balancing as read conflicting info. Some don't bother as at 3500 they're not doing anything and my bike spends more time in the lower rev range.

If that makes no difference I'll keep an "ear" on it and probably go down G5RJO's route and accept the rattle is there. And probably get better ear plugs!!

 

[Pukmeister]

In my case my much beloved ‘08 GSA (HV58 KLP) had two clutch changes and a full gearbox rebuild by me (including a new input shaft at £500) over 50,000 miles, plus new alternator, FD, driveshaft, stick coils, etc etc.

Guess what……?

It still rattled. Drove beautifully, never missed a beat, still felt unstoppable but I was annoyed enough to trade it in for a 1250.

Guess what…….?

That rattles even worse than my Hexhead did.

Should have just kept my Hexhead and been £14k better off.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Cheers for the input everyone.

It's due a service so I'll do that first and inspect the old oil try the heavier oil, take it i could use that in the FD as well? It could do with a throttle balance, how can I check the stepper motors are OK? I have an old GS911 and Motoscan.

Do people park the steppers while balancing as read conflicting info. Some don't bother as at 3500 they're not doing anything and my bike spends more time in the lower rev range.

If that makes no difference I'll keep an "ear" on it and probably go down G5RJO's route and accept the rattle is there. And probably get better ear plugs!!

For the FD I usually use 85W140 GL5

If anyone tells you your bike will lose power because you are using heavier gear oil

Feel free to deliver a Gibbs Slap (with a Shovel!!)

If you have the ability to park them then do so

If not do your best

 

[MWH]

Once again thanks for the replies. I'm about to change my Transits diff oil with 85w140 so I'll have some left from that for the FD. Aware GL5 is the required stuff so will make sure i have that spec.

Even if I did lose a little power it would be negligible so that's not an issue to me. And I will park the steppers with the gs911 and then balance