Rear Wheel Bearing Failure

[Deleted account 190920001]

It would appear there is a bit of a cottage industry developing for FD rebuilds. There are probably three or four guys on this site alone now offering their services. Which suggests that the people saying it is an over reported issue and only happens to a small percentage of bikes are burying their heads in the sand.

What nobody is or can report is the number of failures against the number of units. There are hundreds of thousands of these bikes on the road and has been one of the best selling of any bikes since they first came out. Even if there were a 1000 reported failures on this forum its still a pretty low percentage against total produced. I have no idea what the number of failures are but its a hell of a lot less than the number of posts relating to it. There must be over a hundred posts of shock, horror and gob smacked for every bearing failure.

I actually had a look to see if I could find any published numbers on how many have been made. All I can really find is up to July 2007 at just over 100,000 from 2004. Their popularity has only increased over time so I am going to gestimate around 250,000- 300,000. In May 2009 BMW announced they had sold 500,000 GS's in total from 1980 so as a total percentage the 1200 is around half of the GS's ever produced which is 7 years worth now. Also add the other 1200 boxers with the same FD and you have a mighty impressive total manufactured number. Now who wants to say the 1200 is utter crap and failure prone with figures like those? Either their faults are no where near as bad as this forum would lead you to believe or BMW has pulled off one of the best brainwashing/fault concealment in the history of bike manufacturing. They also must have to pay out millions in warranty repairs for all these alleged failures.

 

[Popell]

MY MATES GS 1200 2007 FINAL DRIVE FAILED AT 22000 MILES IT WAS REPAIRED BY BMW AND LASTED ONE WEEK AND HAD A MAJOR OIL LEAK RUINED HOLIDAY IN WALES AND WAS RETURNED TO DEALER ON TRUCK AND SEALS REPLACED
TWO DAYS LATER GUESS WHAT ANOTHER MAJOR OILLEAK WHICH COULD HAVE HAD HIM OFF AS IT WENT ALLOVER REAR TYRE

AFTER MUCH HASSLE A NEW REAR DRIVE WAS FITTED AND MY MATE WAS NEARLY HAPPY BUT HAVING LOST FAITH IN BIKE/DEALER DECIDED TO SELL THE BIKE AND NEVER GET ANOTHER BM ETC ETC

THE BIKE WAS SOLD TO ANOTHER MATE OF MINE WHICH NOTICED THAT THERE WAS ROUGHNESS AND A NOISE COMING FROM THE REAR END, PLUS A BIT PLAY IN WHEEL,
THIS REAR DRIVE HAD ONLY DONE 4000 MILES SINCE BEING REPLACED LESS THAN 9 MONTHS EARLIER
BACK TO BMW DEALERSHIP WHO TOTALLY REFUSED ANY HELP AS THE BIKE HAD BEEN SOLD ON FROM THE ORIGINAL OWNER EVEN THO IT HAD BEEN SERVOCED THERE, EXCUSE IT NEDED SERVICE [4000 MILES AFTER BEING SERVICED BULLSHIT]
SURELY A £1000 REPLACEMNT PART HAS SOME SORT OF GUARANTEE
ANYWAY AS WE WERE GOING TO POLAND THE NEXT WEEK WE STRIPPED THE DRIVE DOWN AND REPACED TWO BEARINGS,2 OILSEALS AND LO AND BEHOLD ALL THE NOISE/PLAY WAS GONE

HE STILL CAN'T BELEIVE HOW HE HAS BEEN TREATED BY OUR LOCAL BMW DEALERSHIP AND WONDERS WHY THEY DIDN'T JUST REPLACE IT AS THEY GET PAYED FOR WARRANTY WORK SURELY

HAVING RBUILT OVER 15 UNITS I HAVE FOUND IT S THE MAIN INNER BEARING THAT WEARS BUT AS THE UNITS ARE STRIPPED OUT I REPLACE BOTH BEARINGS INCLUDING OILSEALS AND O'RING AS A MATTER OF COURSE.

HAVING MADE SOME TOOLING TO STRIP AND REFURBISH THE REAR DRIVES

I CAN NOW OFFER MY SERVICES ON A 1/2 DAY TURNAROND FOR A REBUILD

I REPLACE THE OUTER,INNER & BEARINGS,OUTER &INNER OILSEALS PLUS O'RING AND OIL FOR £225 PLUS POSTAGE

I AM IN THE NORTHEAST AND CAN BE CONTACTED ON

E MAIL [email protected]
Phone 0191 5220217

Man, thats loud! Stop shouting (or they'll all want one)

Good to know though, and not too far from Wetherby when the proverbial hits the spinning thing..

 

[ianran]

Why do people keep saying you pay a premium for a BMW?
RRP for a Yamaha FJR thick end of £15K, Super Tenere £13K. BMW Adventure £11.5K standard 1200 £10.5K?????????

 

[Beemerman59]

Why do people keep saying you pay a premium for a BMW?
RRP for a Yamaha FJR thick end of £15K, Super Tenere £13K. BMW Adventure £11.5K standard 1200 £10.5K?????????

I was thinking the same thing myself. I don't see BMW as a premium brand at all, the cost of ownership is no more expensive than other top of the range bikes.

 

[phooey]

What are the signs & symptoms of an impending FD failure ?
My 08 GSA is on 40K and still hanging in there...

 

[MacJ]

People seem to be getting very protective here. I didn't open this thread to start an argument with a couple of members who seem to think that the sun shines out of BMW's a*%e.

What nobody is or can report is the number of failures against the number of units. There are hundreds of thousands of these bikes on the road and has been one of the best selling of any bikes since they first came out. E

Neither do I want to enter into some statistical slanging match even though the number of failures amongst the members of this forum (390 or so?) is probably statistically significant!
What I had hoped for was a realisation that there is a problem with these bearings, which if properly engineered should not fail at 10K, and perhaps a few suggestions, (apart from 'F. off and put up with it'), as to how I could resolve it and get the bike back on the road.
Apart from that thanks very much to the realists here.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Best of luck with the rebuild business bsogri, but according to the BMW PR machine (alias Sgt Bilko) it hardly ever happens so you'll be out of business soon

PR machine, hardly mate but I'm a realist and not someone who thinks because it has a BuMW badge nothing is ever going to fail All I know is my bike has been spot on and given the stick I give it, I'm sure there aren't many other bikes that would stand up to it.

Anyhoo, I read the OP's post to mean his rear wheel bearing has failed and not the bearings in the FD

 

[BBB61]

there was a guy saying he'd had 5 in 86K, i think.

found the link now.

seems some blame must go to the dealer that "fixed" the problem, but it's not very clear.

Looks that way to me, repair job not done properly. The other question here is that unlike bikes with twin sided swing arms, the GS has no bearing actually fitted in the wheel itself, so it is part of the final drive. If that is the bearing that goes then is it any different to replacing a failed wheel bearing on a conventional bike?

 

[cookie]

is it any different to replacing a failed wheel bearing on a conventional bike?

it's a great deal more trouble.

 

[BBB61]

it's a great deal more trouble.

I wasn't referring to the amount of work to do the job (which is more involved) but the concept. It's often referred to as a final drive failure when the reality is its the bearing.

 

[Spout]

I It's often referred to as a final drive failure when the reality is its the bearing.

And how many reported "failures" are just a blown seal?

 

[wust588]

I wonder how many Japanese shaft driven bikes suffer rear drive trouble?

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I wonder how many Japanese shaft driven bikes suffer rear drive trouble?

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[red1]

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Amazing how easily the BMW PR machine gets bored when they can't think of an answer.

 

[Engineer]

Just collected my 09 GS from Benhams of Wolverhampton following service. The Bike is 2 years 6 months old with 10K on the clock.
The invoice notes read, 'Rear wheel bearing rough/play requires replacement'. Estimate for repair £420!
I was absolutely gob smacked - it's a 2 year old bike for god's sake.
Just spoken to a really nice guy at BMW service who is going to contact Benhams to see if it can be resolved. Fingers crossed.
Ironically I'd been test riding an RT today. Now let me see will I be buying another BMW???????

The BMW rear drives are not as long lasting as one might expect - my rear bearing also went 'rough', this was on a new replacement drive that had only covered 16,000 miles.

The bike was well out of warranty at the time but BMW picked up most of the cost of replacing the bearing - I argued that I should have been able to expect more than 16,000 miles from a brand new rear drive that was not in anyway abused.

For whatever reason the rear drives are a weak point, maybe it is design or poor quality components or inconsistencies in manufacture - but it has been an on going problem for years. Maybe it is a consequence of the single sided swinging arm design?

They seem just as likely to fail whether they are used gently or abused.

 

[Beemerman59]

I guess like everyone else, I form my views and opinions based upon personal experience, knowledge and historical evidence. It certainly seems clear there is a weakness of some sort with the 1200's FD, but I don't necessarily believe its a design fault as such. To my non-engineers mind I take a fairly black and white view that if it was a design fault, either with the entire FD or within individual components, then most if not all FD's would fail. Given the completely different evidence from users on this forum, failures occur at any time, mileage and irrespective of use. I also don't believe most FD's fail. I tend to think that the vast majority of FD's don't fail but a significant minority do. If it was a design fault, then surely, given the number of 1200's sold, that would be the other way round?

So, I tend to believe the issue is more likely to be around quality control, either of the manufacture of the bearing(s) themselves, or, the assembly process of fitting the bearing into the FD. I use my own example in this case. I bought my '08 GSA with 2K on the clock. I first picked up on the FD issues from this forum with 6K on the clock which is the first time I then went to check my own FD. Sure enough there was significant play. Despite this it was'nt until 18K had come up that it was agreed to be a failure for which BMW (out of warranty) stumped up the cost of a replacement bearing. I have since put on more mileage on the new bearing than I had when I first noticed play on the rear wheel with the old bearing. It is still rock solid, no play and no rumbling from the FD. The only thing different from before is the bearing itself or the way (accuracy) it was fitted into the FD.

Again, as a non-engineer, I will assume there are specifications and tolerances that relate to how the bearing is fitted. If these are not known or adhered to by the person fitting the bearing (by BMW, dealers or independants) then the end result could be either an early (or repeated) failure because it was fitted incorrectly, or it will last forever because through sheer luck it just happened to be fitted exactly to spec. IMO, repeated failures as quoted on this thread are more likely to be caused by the incorrect fitment of a new bearing, or there is something else in the powertrain causing the problem further down the line which has been missed or incorrectly diagnosed.

So, thats my opinion, it's not based on any real evidence or a scientific approach but is just my gut feeling of the cause of this issue. I don't believe it's a design flaw, I think it's down to quality control by whoever assembles or replaces these bearings.

 

[red1]

I guess like everyone else, I form my views and opinions based upon personal experience, knowledge and historical evidence. It certainly seems clear there is a weakness of some sort with the 1200's FD, but I don't necessarily believe its a design fault as such. To my non-engineers mind I take a fairly black and white view that if it was a design fault, either with the entire FD or within individual components, then most if not all FD's would fail. Given the completely different evidence from users on this forum, failures occur at any time, mileage and irrespective of use. I also don't believe most FD's fail. I tend to think that the vast majority of FD's don't fail but a significant minority do. If it was a design fault, then surely, given the number of 1200's sold, that would be the other way round?

So, I tend to believe the issue is more likely to be around quality control, either of the manufacture of the bearing(s) themselves, or, the assembly process of fitting the bearing into the FD. I use my own example in this case. I bought my '08 GSA with 2K on the clock. I first picked up on the FD issues from this forum with 6K on the clock which is the first time I then went to check my own FD. Sure enough there was significant play. Despite this it was'nt until 18K had come up that it was agreed to be a failure for which BMW (out of warranty) stumped up the cost of a replacement bearing. I have since put on more mileage on the new bearing than I had when I first noticed play on the rear wheel with the old bearing. It is still rock solid, no play and no rumbling from the FD. The only thing different from before is the bearing itself or the way (accuracy) it was fitted into the FD.

Again, as a non-engineer, I will assume there are specifications and tolerances that relate to how the bearing is fitted. If these are not known or adhered to by the person fitting the bearing (by BMW, dealers or independants) then the end result could be either an early (or repeated) failure because it was fitted incorrectly, or it will last forever because through sheer luck it just happened to be fitted exactly to spec. IMO, repeated failures as quoted on this thread are more likely to be caused by the incorrect fitment of a new bearing, or there is something else in the powertrain causing the problem further down the line which has been missed or incorrectly diagnosed.

So, thats my opinion, it's not based on any real evidence or a scientific approach but is just my gut feeling of the cause of this issue. I don't believe it's a design flaw, I think it's down to quality control by whoever assembles or replaces these bearings.

I think you are probably as near to the mark as any explanation I've previously read.

Accepting what you have concluded it is unfortunate that, considering the low number of bikes affected that BMW haven't done the gentlemanly thing and accepted the quality or assembly issue and just fixed anything under a certain mileage. Let's face it, it is not a cheap repair, and before the "fan boys" kick in, not all owners can face £300+ per year extended warranty (or should have to accept the extended warranty as a necessity of ownership) and the dealer servicing costs that goes with it.

I've been an outspoken critic of the issues with the GS for some time, and this is not because I'm a critic of the bike, but of BMW.
This is the 3rd major issue that has affected the 1200GS since it's inception (the others being the fuel relay and the EWS) and each time BMW has denied/ignored the issue. The fuel and ignition issues were finally put to rest with recalls after nearly 5 years of breakdowns.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

I guess like everyone else, I form my views and opinions based upon personal experience, knowledge and historical evidence. It certainly seems clear there is a weakness of some sort with the 1200's FD, but I don't necessarily believe its a design fault as such. To my non-engineers mind I take a fairly black and white view that if it was a design fault, either with the entire FD or within individual components, then most if not all FD's would fail. Given the completely different evidence from users on this forum, failures occur at any time, mileage and irrespective of use. I also don't believe most FD's fail. I tend to think that the vast majority of FD's don't fail but a significant minority do. If it was a design fault, then surely, given the number of 1200's sold, that would be the other way round?

So, I tend to believe the issue is more likely to be around quality control, either of the manufacture of the bearing(s) themselves, or, the assembly process of fitting the bearing into the FD. I use my own example in this case. I bought my '08 GSA with 2K on the clock. I first picked up on the FD issues from this forum with 6K on the clock which is the first time I then went to check my own FD. Sure enough there was significant play. Despite this it was'nt until 18K had come up that it was agreed to be a failure for which BMW (out of warranty) stumped up the cost of a replacement bearing. I have since put on more mileage on the new bearing than I had when I first noticed play on the rear wheel with the old bearing. It is still rock solid, no play and no rumbling from the FD. The only thing different from before is the bearing itself or the way (accuracy) it was fitted into the FD.

Again, as a non-engineer, I will assume there are specifications and tolerances that relate to how the bearing is fitted. If these are not known or adhered to by the person fitting the bearing (by BMW, dealers or independants) then the end result could be either an early (or repeated) failure because it was fitted incorrectly, or it will last forever because through sheer luck it just happened to be fitted exactly to spec. IMO, repeated failures as quoted on this thread are more likely to be caused by the incorrect fitment of a new bearing, or there is something else in the powertrain causing the problem further down the line which has been missed or incorrectly diagnosed.

So, thats my opinion, it's not based on any real evidence or a scientific approach but is just my gut feeling of the cause of this issue. I don't believe it's a design flaw, I think it's down to quality control by whoever assembles or replaces these bearings.

I would pretty much agree with you other than to add that the design is maybe a bit marginal so doesn't tolerate poor assembly and or quality control.

I still stand by my theory that if they failed as often as is made out then BMW would have had to fix it long ago. It wasn't so long ago that they replaced the whole FD and not just the bearings. If failure truly was a majority it would have cost them a fortune and been far cheaper to redesign. They did a major cockup with the oil filled for life which they changed pretty quickly and they also speced to small a pinion bearing again changed fairly early on. I can't actually remember when I last heard of a pinion bearing being dead so I guess for the most part that's cured. Seals and wheel bearings seem to be the main failure now. Still a pain but nothing like as bad as changing a pinion bearing. Not to defend anything but I have had wheel bearings fail on all sorts of makes and models without having intergalactic miles on them. A few of them even spun the bearing trashing the whole wheel. Yes they are more difficult to replace on the FD and more expensive but duff wheel bearings are note just the preserve of the R1200 range. As an aside not once have I heard of an actual crown wheel or pinion failure which IMHO is a proper FD failure. I think BMW brought that one on themselves though because of their change the whole unit attitude. To the none mechanical this simply means the whole FD is fecked If they had just replaced the bearings I think we would all be moaning about crappy wheel bearings. You don't say your hubs knackered on the car because you need a new wheel bearing do you?

 

[MacJ]

Rear Wheel Bearing - its a service item

I finally had a call back from BMW service this morning to tell me that they had spoken to Benham of Wolverhampton's service manager who said bearings are service items which can be expected to fail at any mileage and I should have taken out their extended warranty!
He went on to explain that the cost (£420) is at a level that the dealer is expected to deal with goodwill claims and Benhams are unwilling to make any offer. In view of this there is nothing they can (will) do.
So there you are these bearings are service items.
I think half the problem is Benhams are primarily a car dealership who don't give a toss about bikes, its just a little earner.
Now who can help out with details of a decent independent who can replace this bearing at a reasonable cost? Or is it a job I can do myself? I dont have a fully equiped workshop but I've replaced clutches, brakes etc on jap bikes before.
The bike is an 09 (july 2009).

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Now who can help out with details of a decent independent who can replace this bearing at a reasonable cost? Or is it a job I can do myself? I dont have a fully equiped workshop but I've replaced clutches, brakes etc on jap bikes before.
The bike is an 09 (july 2009).

Give Jonno a call at Adventure Bike Warehouse 0161 736 8040