Hello John. My first GS was a Citroen and it was a 1200 boxer but 4 cyl
. Absolutely right went like stink till it eventually fell in half.
Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles
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. Absolutely right went like stink till it eventually fell in half.Who has slandered you, or the company? People are asking real questions, as is their right. If they are suspicious then that is a suspicion. I have not read a post (maybe I have missed it?) where someone has stated that you must have "tampered with figures".
By your own post, you state "i have never said that the remap on a gs is a performance mod, bmw do other models for that purpose." And as I have previously stated, you never stated that the remap would provide a certain percentage increase in power. In addition, I have also stated that the remap may well be the best option for members.
It is a fact that you have acquired work based on the feedback on members on this forum. It is a fact that members have posted quite considerable power increases. it is a fact that I, and other members have not noticed a performance increase which they would equate to the increased power figures.
Your suggestion of legal action based on members opinions or doubts, unless a member has made a categoric statement about your conduct/misconduct, seems spurious at best.
The Grey One
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Hello John. My first GS was a Citroen and it was a 1200 boxer but 4 cyl
Hi Ted
Yes and the first 1015cc ones rev'ed for ever. I fitted one in a Dyane and at 7,000 revs it really took off. They were safe to 9,000. I was once told by a police friend that a traffic car had been sent to the workshop for a speedo fault. They had clocked a Dyane (mine) doing 90 mph uphill and hadn't bothered to give chase!
John
Like Wilsdorf states Neoviper I have also seen no slanderous statements on this subject just lots of unanswered questions , you yourself say that some make 25-30% where others make only 3-8% yet even you have not cared to explain why this is. Were the ones that saw the biggest increases suffering problems that you sorted during a remap? were some of them modified in some way that apparently the owners didn't know about ? I can only assume that they all were running the standard BMW maps when they came to you which I assume if they had dealer service history would be the latest and correct maps, they would all have been the same standard engines with only slight differences in tolerances as per all production vehicles so why do some see 4 times the increase of others ?????
Defamatory rather than slander is the word that should have been used really, as this would cover all areas. As slander would usually be the spoken word, and libel the written word - but that is by the by.
In any case, I only see a lot of questions being asked on a forum of like-mined (or at least like-motorcycle owning) enthusiasts. I will refrain from even stating the a remap might be the best option from now on - as the previous post comes across as bullying to me, with what I can only assume is to close down open debate on what is the best form of tuning etc for our bikes.
In any case, I only see a lot of questions being asked on a forum of like-mined (or at least like-motorcycle owning) enthusiasts. I will refrain from even stating the a remap might be the best option from now on - as the previous post comes across as bullying to me, with what I can only assume is to close down open debate on what is the best form of tuning etc for our bikes.
I'll come and oversee this challenge Redrick ... I'm not far from you
But I am biased of course ...
As per my earlier post in this thread, I had my F800GS booked in with Geoff but in between acquired my G650Xcountry ... so took that down instead.
Good and marked percentage power and torque increases gained. The bike is soooo much smoother and pulls sooooo much sweeter in roll ons in top gear, and is soooo much quicker than Johnny Boxers now
I'm well satisfied ... will pop back in here with cross reference to my earlier post, for those that haven't trawled through the full thread
See my post 29
See my post 71
I'll come and oversee this challenge Redrick ... I'm not far from you
But I am biased of course ...
As per my earlier post in this thread, I had my F800GS booked in with Geoff but in between acquired my G650Xcountry ... so took that down instead.
Good and marked percentage power and torque increases gained. The bike is soooo much smoother and pulls sooooo much sweeter in roll ons in top gear, and is soooo much quicker than Johnny Boxers now
I'm well satisfied ... will pop back in here with cross reference to my earlier post, for those that haven't trawled through the full thread
Yes we were going to have a pint were we not and if im not memory befuddeled i said i'd buy the first for your recent Birthday !
Please bring your bike over to the Isle of Man and I'd be happy, and very interested, to compare - is it a twin cam though?
Another debate on the internet, does this one generate more heat or light?
I had the Hilltop treatment on my 06 plain vanilla GS a while ago, in fact so long ago it's difficult now to remember how much happier I was after getting it done, for the reasons others describe...smoother, less lumpy etc. I had hoped for some improvement in economy but that didn't happen. I can completely accept that I may have ridden the bike a little more aggressively following the map and this might explain why.
By and large the bike doesn't feel massively faster (and I did get a big improvement on the charts), but it does feel lively, keen and ready to go. When you really twist the wrist hard it does fly, but I have no un-mapped bike to compare with, and I never really rode the bike like that beforehand anyway.
I think it's perfectly fair to wonder about the figures given out, and to discuss real life examples of real bike comparisons. I think some of the comments here could be a bit more polite too, but hey, it's the internet. I could go back and check for slander, but I'm busy washing my hair tonight, sorry.
I would be interested if someone did independent pre and post mapping dyno's...and who knows what we'd see - but I'm willing to take a punt that Hilltop's numbers are probably reasonable, as there's surely too much to lose otherwise.
If I had another GS that was a bit twitchy at low revs or lumpy through the gears I know where I'd go, unless someone can come up with a genuinely better alternative, and I'm not sure anyone has yet.
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I had the Hilltop treatment on my 06 plain vanilla GS a while ago, in fact so long ago it's difficult now to remember how much happier I was after getting it done, for the reasons others describe...smoother, less lumpy etc. I had hoped for some improvement in economy but that didn't happen. I can completely accept that I may have ridden the bike a little more aggressively following the map and this might explain why.
By and large the bike doesn't feel massively faster (and I did get a big improvement on the charts), but it does feel lively, keen and ready to go. When you really twist the wrist hard it does fly, but I have no un-mapped bike to compare with, and I never really rode the bike like that beforehand anyway.
I think it's perfectly fair to wonder about the figures given out, and to discuss real life examples of real bike comparisons. I think some of the comments here could be a bit more polite too, but hey, it's the internet. I could go back and check for slander, but I'm busy washing my hair tonight, sorry.
I would be interested if someone did independent pre and post mapping dyno's...and who knows what we'd see - but I'm willing to take a punt that Hilltop's numbers are probably reasonable, as there's surely too much to lose otherwise.
If I had another GS that was a bit twitchy at low revs or lumpy through the gears I know where I'd go, unless someone can come up with a genuinely better alternative, and I'm not sure anyone has yet.
sent via the modern interweb
Yes its a TC and bollocks to that if you want to take my challenge you come to yorkshire !!
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lol, I probably would do, but my twin cam is mapped, the old man's isn't - so over here we would be able to compare 2 TC's. Not that there is anything wrong with yorkshire mind.
Absolutely, and from what I've seen the remap is being sold to do just that - smooth out fuelling etc. I don't think our mapped TC is any worse on fuel than our mapped bike - it's slightly worse on the fuel computer, but at the pumps they were fairly even. Only the Single Cam with the Power commnder used more fuel than both the mapped and unmapped TC's - not sure whether that is due to the newer engine or the power commander though.
I certainly can't fault the fuelling on my bike, and it is a world a difference from when I had my single cam standard - that said the standard twin cam is also pretty good. Maybe not as smooth as my bike, but it's not bad at all. By comparison, I'd need something done to the 04 bike, as low speed riding was a bit of a pain, The twin cam will pull better in top from lower revs than both the single cam and the 04 bike.
Without reservation if I had a single cam I think I'd choose a remap over the other options. I think it is going to be a used bike bargain and there is nothing in it between it and the twin cam. With the twin cam I don't know; it really only comes down to the remap or a power commander (possibly with all the auto tune and everything else), and then from a quick looks the extras push up the price of a power commander with dyno time - the remap is (unless you just send an ECU) a set cost and includes the required dyno time.
I understand the booster plug just fools the bike into thinking it is running cooler - so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it as a mod in comparison if you can afford the other options - but as a cheap, or interim option it gets some good reviews - I'm just not sure I would go for it - at least it would not be my preferred choice if cost was not a consideration.
I would love to come to IOM and its on my list but a fair way down at the moment !
As for this thread i believe that the number of satisfied punters and the sceptics arguing over figures on a graph is just daft, If BHP is the holy grail of motorcycling dont get a GS mapped or otherwise if on the otherhand you want (like me) to have a GS which rides and delivers like its manufacturer wanted before the emmissions malarkey and the BMW accountants interfere with price of suspension parts etc etc then go to hilltop and then to REVS suspension for Wilburs !!
Well, if you do get a chance to come over give me a shout.
I agree with your post. I thought I may get away with just having my GS and thought the remap may have been the answer to my one bike for all things, unfortunately it wasn't. Maybe I was looking for a kind of holy grail in biking terms, and the GS comes very close. I was then left with the thought, would an LC be able to provide what I want - but I felt even that wouldn't be quite quick enough - so I am happy with my remapped GS, alongside my power commandered R1200S. And whilst the R12S will never be as quick as my old blade, and the top speed is down on my old CBR600 - it has enough of the GS engine characteristics to keep me happy. On one hand I would have preferred to get down to one main bike, but on the other I really really like the R12S, but I'd never take it touring round Europe.
+1
I know this thread is about remapping at Hilltop, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Geoff and his services
But I also 'Wilberise' all my 'bikes, deal direct with Germany, good suspension is worth 20bhp on these 'ere bumpy bends of our hallowed green and pleasant land
(RIP) Johno23
Registered user
I would agree with that................To state that would require knowledge, evidence and balls.
What we've had is snide comments inferring it,and links to you tube.
What we've had is snide comments inferring it,and links to you tube.
+1
Ok, I'm a happy Hilltop customer so may have some bias, but the guy has offered to return it all to standard and refund anyone not happy with the map. I just don't understand all the moaning and sniping, Geoff is not ripping anyone off. The thread's getting like a badly written B movie now
The links to Youtube were posted in response to the comments that the figures have to be correct because the Dyno said so , the youtube clips show that there are many different reasons that dyno figures may not be accurate.I would agree with that................To state that would require knowledge, evidence and balls.
What we've had is snide comments inferring it,and links to you tube.
crispy duck
Registered user
I've been reading this thread on and off and haven't noticed any slander or snide comments. I am also looking to get my bike remapped by hilltop this coming summer and that is due to this thread so it can't be that bad for business as others have also done the same.
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I would agree with that................To state that would require knowledge, evidence and balls.
What we've had is snide comments inferring it,and links to you tube.
What snide comments? We have had comments giving personal opinion, or personal experiences - and yes, we have had some questioning the power increases. Is it really hard to believe that some people might find it difficult to believe, and therefore questions that, a notoriously difficult to tune engine can be easily increased in power by between 25%-30% on a fairly regular basis?
We have also had you-tube links posted that show how a dyno could be manipulated. Now if you don't find those things informative (I certainly did), or if you knew it all before (I certainly didn't) then that all well and good, but other members do.
Back to your first comment, I have no knowledge or evidence that the dyno figures supplied by Hilltop have been manipulated in such a way as to suggest greater power increases than those achieved. Likewise I have no 3rd party provided knowledge or evidence to suggest that these are 100% correct. Making unsubstantiated statements has nothing to do with balls.
I do now however have a much better understanding of how dynos work and how an operator, or certain software case decide a number of factors which affect the output on the dyno - provided all these things remain the same before and after changes are made, then you should have a reliable factor/% of increase - although the figures may change from dyno to dyno, this percentage increase should then be repeatable on different dynos given the same before and after changes to the vehicle.
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