Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

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My bike was not and never has been running at it's best. Have 2 1200 GS, also it would overheat a lot quicker than the other bike in slow traffic on hot days. Couple of times last summer when I thought it was going to pack up it rattled an juddered so much.
Have another 12GS same model same year about 4000 more miles on it and it is, or was a different bike. It's much smoother and easier to control, a less snatchy throttle just a lot nicer to ride etc, also stays cooler for longer in the same situation (38+deg filtering through heavy traffic). Everything my bike now is! Well see how it copes with the heat in Turkey this summer

After a bit of messing about managed to get the graph on. Sorry if it is difficult to read, Will have another go at the fuelling graph which was predominantly in the section, A/F ratio 15.2 to 14.8
A quick Google found this
"In naturally aspirated engines powered by octane, maximum power is frequently reached at AFRs ranging from 12.5 to 13.3:1 or λ of 0.850 to 0.901."

Just had a look at what BM say the GS should produce power wise, interesting. BMW say 77Kw (85.55bhp) and 111Nm (103.25 lbft) so really only just back to what it should be producing as standard :eek
Still i'm very happy with how it performs now, as for the price! well less than half the price of an Acropovic end can that dose nothing other than look pretty and save a few pounds. Or 10 min on nippy normans or TT website spent on various bling. Which I am also just a little bit guilty of :D

Geoff down loads the "generic map" to get a base improvement then dose several runs and tweaks the various parameters to suit your particular bike. Dont think I would have just sent the ECU away, whats the point! A PC3 on a rolling road set up is going to be very much the same I suspect as Geoffs remap but without the extra connections and potential reliability issues with extra wires and sockets running around the bike.
 

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Luckily, for those of us who have actually been through this in reality, it is only your opinion.

Yes it is and its worth exactly what you paid for it ;) :D

22bhp increase is still unbelievable from a bike thats running standard after a remap. If it feels better, great, but banding power figures about like that is a bit pie in the sky

Feel free to post dyno maps to show where this increase is actually happening at in the revs and before anyone suggests trawling thu here to find one, I'm not :D
 
What complete and utter bollocks. You really need to get out more

No I think you are talking bollocks , bendy toy makes sense , as he said and I have said in the past the bike now does as should , and with after market systems this only improves .
 
Yes it is and its worth exactly what you paid for it ;) :D

22bhp increase is still unbelievable from a bike thats running standard after a remap. If it feels better, great, but banding power figures about like that is a bit pie in the sky

Feel free to post dyno maps to show where this increase is actually happening at in the revs and before anyone suggests trawling thu here to find one, I'm not :D

They've already been posted .... several times :blast
 
What complete and utter bollocks. You really need to get out more

Are you the same APE that Geoff offered a guarantee - "If you don't agree I've improved your bike I'll put it back into standard spec & give you your money back ?"

If so, you had a good offer but instead chose to continue to carp from the sidelines.
 
Well looking around at different makers bikes for the same capacity bikes they are all in the same ball park re bhp and torque at about the same revs, the sports bikes have a high bhp figure due to their rev limits being much higher than the likes of a GS. A 25% power hike from a remap is imo a liberal application of snake oil and a rolling road tweak IMO. As a young lad I had a Cavalier SRi "tuned" and was told it was up from 115bhp to 160 bhp and shown the dyno. That was drivel as well. To get those %`s of power gains for the cost and minimal parts replacing and rev ceilings raised is afaik only possible on turbo vehicles where the boost, fuelling and timing is re done. Even some of the headline power figure for those are dubious due to a power spike high up the revs rather than a nice power and torque curve.

I`m no expert but have been fiddling with and getting various turbo deisel and petrol cars for the past 25 years remapped by reputable tuning companies. I did get my fingers burned once with a pug 205 1.9 GTI with getting head work, exhaust and remap and it was supposed to be 160 but only gained an actual 10 bhp from the oe of 130.

I stand by my opinion that the only way to cheaply get those % increase for such cash can only be done on forced induction vehicles. No way can you get a 22bhp increase by only remapping a standard condition GS that is running properly to begin with :D

So, in your own words, you're 'no expert', but you are calling into question the results of expert tuning, calling it 'snake oil' and 'rolling road tweaking'??? Thin ice, fella, thin ice. Especially on a public forum. There are a load of us on here that have had this done AND published the results. You pay for the dyno session and my time / fuel to get there and you can 'independently' dyno my bike. BUT...there have been a few trolls on here knocking Geoff's work and NOT ONE has had the cahones to meet this challenge. YOU SHOW ME A PRINTOUT OF A HILLTOP BIKE THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE HILLTOP DYNO RESULTS AND I MIGHT START PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR LUDDITE VIEWS.
 
So, in your own words, you're 'no expert', but you are calling into question the results of expert tuning, calling it 'snake oil' and 'rolling road tweaking'??? Thin ice, fella, thin ice. Especially on a public forum. There are a load of us on here that have had this done AND published the results. You pay for the dyno session and my time / fuel to get there and you can 'independently' dyno my bike. BUT...there have been a few trolls on here knocking Geoff's work and NOT ONE has had the cahones to meet this challenge. YOU SHOW ME A PRINTOUT OF A HILLTOP BIKE THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE HILLTOP DYNO RESULTS AND I MIGHT START PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR LUDDITE VIEWS.

Well said:thumby:
 
So, in your own words, you're 'no expert', but you are calling into question the results of expert tuning, calling it 'snake oil' and 'rolling road tweaking'??? Thin ice, fella, thin ice. Especially on a public forum. There are a load of us on here that have had this done AND published the results. You pay for the dyno session and my time / fuel to get there and you can 'independently' dyno my bike. BUT...there have been a few trolls on here knocking Geoff's work and NOT ONE has had the cahones to meet this challenge. YOU SHOW ME A PRINTOUT OF A HILLTOP BIKE THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE HILLTOP DYNO RESULTS AND I MIGHT START PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR LUDDITE VIEWS.

One thing I find quite puzzling

BMW spend millions developing a LC GS1200 that produces an extra 15bhp.

They could have saved all that cash by just getting a remap
 
Not looking to enter a heated discussion.
I would like to know from those that have had the remap.
Have the lambda sensors been removed or isolated in closed loop. ? :nenau
 
For the record my post simply questions the comment that BMW restrict their bikes by 25% to keep the EU happy
 
Thank you, Seahorse.
Can someone explain to me how you can run an air fuel ratio other than an air fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1 in closed loop if the lambda sensors are connected.?:nenau

My understanding is the Air fuel ratio in closed loop is dictated by the lambda sensors irrespective of how the base map is altered.
Please can someone clarify this. :)
 
My understanding is the Air fuel ratio in closed loop is dictated by the lambda sensors irrespective of how the base map is altered.
Please can someone clarify this. :)

My understanding is that the Lambda's don't decide what the AFR is - the fuel map does. All the Lambda's do is keep it tracking to the map. Makes no difference whether that's the OEM map or a third party.
 
Thank You.

My personal findings are that If I richen the air fuel ratio in closed loop by.

1. Increasing injector pulse width.
2. increasing fuel pressure.
3. Reducing the air inlet temperature value.

The lambda sensor very quickly corrects this and returns the AFR to 14.7 to 1.
Putting the lambda sensor in control in closed loop.

This way the lambda sensor can control the ecu to to overcome differences in injector wear, fuel pressure, Different fuels ie ethanol content etc.

Just my findings, I would be interested in tests made by others.
And an explanation how a base map can control the lambda sensor not visa verse.
 
Thank You.

My personal findings are that If I richen the air fuel ratio in closed loop by.

1. Increasing injector pulse width.
2. increasing fuel pressure.
3. Reducing the air inlet temperature value.

The lambda sensor very quickly corrects this and returns the AFR to 14.7 to 1.
Putting the lambda sensor in control in closed loop.

This way the lambda sensor can control the ecu to to overcome differences in injector wear, fuel pressure, Different fuels ie ethanol content etc.

Just my findings, I would be interested in tests made by others.
And an explanation how a base map can control the lambda sensor not visa verse.

A Lambda sensor is a measuring device, it can't control anything. It, along with the others sensors, feeds info to the ECU The ECU makes the adjustments not the sensors.

John
 
A Lambda sensor is a measuring device, it can't control anything. It, along with the others sensors, feeds info to the ECU The ECU makes the adjustments not the sensors.

John
Thank you. John.
Please can you explain to me that when I offset the lambda control factor to say 0.93 lambda ( using either an Innovate lc1 or AF-xeid that the AFR on my bike changes to 13.6 to 1 in closed loop. Without any other changes.
If the lambda sensor is not in control. ?
 
A lamda probe is a sensor not a control unit

Data from it is used by the controller to set the other fuelling parameters

I agree with this statement.
I consider the lambda sensor is there to inform the ecu when the air fuel ratio varies from 14.7 to 1 ( in fact pulsed either side of this to enable the catalytic converter to work).
The ecu then alters the injector pulse width to maintain this 14.7 t0 1 AFR.
If the base map is altered the lambda sensor will detect the AFR is wrong and report it back to the ecu.....
I have installed a wide band lambda sensor ( for data logging) in the exhaust just behind the stock narrow band sensor and find it quite surprising how it manages to control the AFR to 14.7 to 1 in closed loop.
Which takes me back to my initial question. How can the base map be altered to change the AFR with the lambda circuit working in closed loop.?
 
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