technotony007
Registered user
i will look after the members of this forum and discount groups
Please include for group day discount , for a re-Mapp.... nice one geoff.
Please just give me the heads up on were and when.
regards
Tony
Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles
- Thread starter Roberto
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Please include for group day discount , for a re-Mapp.... nice one geoff.
Please just give me the heads up on were and when.
regards
Tony
SiBorg
Registered user
It's not so much that he's improving on what BMW has made, more that he's restoring the original design intent. BMW took the DOHC engine from the HP2 Sport (where it made in excess of 130bhp), and 'retuned' it to make 110bhp. This is the same kind of retuning that Honda regularly does, taking Fireblade engines and sticking them in naked bikes with 30 - 40bhp knocked off, supposedly to 'improve the midrange response', but really just so you don't buy the cheap bike instead of the top of the range one.
A good example of this sort of 'marketing engineering' is the 1.9TDi engine that the VAG group use. This was (is?) available in all states of tune, from 120 to 170bhp, depending if you bought a VW Polo or Golf, Seat Ibiza, Audi A3 or A4... it's a long list, and it's one of the reasons that the engine is very popular with remap-ers, because you can change software parameters and get massive bhp improvements. VAG adjust the output depending on where they want to pitch the car within the range. For instance, the 2006 diesel Polo made 130bhp max, as they didn't want it to make more than the Polo GTi (150bhp) or the Golf TDi (170bhp). But a remap can take it to 160bhp+, no problem.
Looking at the power curve for my GS remap, peak power was 80bhp at 6,000rpm, after which it flatlined all the way to the limiter. After the remap, it makes 105bhp 500rpm short of the redline, and has a power curve that looks like it was originally supposed to, before some marketing strategist got hold of it and chopped the top off.
I just got my wife a new 1.6 TDi Polo. Maybe Geoff can remap more power and torque for her ?
SiBorg
Registered user
I wouldn't put it past him.
There are lots of tuners specialising in turbo diesels. However, if it's a new Polo, it's likely to be a bit more difficult and expensive than the usual cost of c. £300. Late model VAG cars now have tri-core processors with 64-bit encryption.
In practice, that means that tuners can no longer just connect a laptop to the OBDII port and flash the EPROM with a new fuel map. The ECU needs to be removed and the board removed from that in order to either solder onto the chip or use a cage with pins which locate onto the chip.
If the vehicle is still in warranty any sign of tampering with the ECU is likely to void this. The ECU will be in a cage with "tamper-proof" bolts and you'd want to restore this to its original OEM state.
The alternative is to consider fitting a tuning box. Again, there are a number of these available. I'd be inclined to avoid the cheap ebay versions which are just a resistor in a box and only fool the ECU into thinking the ambient temperature is lower than it is - a bit like a booster plug or an accelerator module for a GS.
Do a Google search for "Polo 1.6 TDI remap".
Please include for group day discount , for a re-Mapp.... nice one geoff.
Please just give me the heads up on were and when.
regards
Tony
And me - lets have a GS (and RT) day or weekend
Blart
Registered user
Interesting piece here from the Triumph Explorer press launch by Kevin Ash. Triumph reveal that the GS's mapping is frigged for press bikes because journalists prefer more top end. This would imply that BMW shift the power down the range either because they think that it sells better and/or to improve reliability/longevity and/or reduce emissions. Unfortunately they appear to make a crap job of it and jeopardise reliability by making the mixture too lean.
If it sounds weird that a large, well funded, experienced business can make a mess of something that they should be able to get spot on, consider the standard screen, seat and final drive etc...
If it sounds weird that a large, well funded, experienced business can make a mess of something that they should be able to get spot on, consider the standard screen, seat and final drive etc...
That is so true. I was contemplating in getting rid of my Vrs Fabia as it was terrible to drive until I read up on Angel Tuning and it now does around 178 bhp and it is like owning a new car, loads of torque and it is so much smoother and still does over 60mpg on a run.
When I get the pennies I think I will be visiting Hilltop as it does sound as though many are as happy with the difference as I am with the remap.
Very interesting!
“Then the oft-reported weakness of the GS's shaft drive was homed in on by Triumph in descriptions of its own shaft, in language which you don't have to boil down very far to end up with: our shaft drive is reliable where the GS's isn't.
But even that paled in the Explorer's presentation the night before our ride. On the screen popped up a graph of power and torque curves, with lines for what looked like three bikes. And there were, sort of… "These are the curves for the Tiger Explorer, and here are the curves for the customer BMW R1200GS. And here, just above those, are the curves for the R1200GS press bikes…"
Pause while jaws hit floor…
In fact the main point was to show the superiority of the Triumph's power over the GS's - these were both comfortably above the German bikes'. But inevitably attention also focussed on the difference between the press bike's curve, with more peak power and less torque (as many journalists seem to prefer) than the showroom model. Very naughty, if still a surprise for Triumph to highlight it, and they've now asked for the graphs to be removed from this review - and I've obliged, it's their copyright after all - as it's stirring up rather more controversy than they anticipated. But it's only retaliation for BMW boss Hendrik von Kuenheim remarking how Triumph should be ashamed for copying the German bikes.”Tuned press bikes are not a new thing, I remember the RG500's launch showing close to 100 RWBHP with the bikes screaming to 11,000rpm.
Me and a mate bought one and they both ran out of puff at 9500 rpm, with power being in the 75-80BHP region. I later had mine tuned and the limiting factor was the bikes ignition which actually retarded severely at 9,500 rpm limiting further progress.
With modern bikes this sort of cheating is so much easier, but at the same time dyno's are more common and therefore easier for manufacturers to get caught.
I wonder if this is why bikes arriving at Hilltop have such dissapointing power figures, as owners are expecting 100BHP from their stock twin cam as per the press bikes.
Me and a mate bought one and they both ran out of puff at 9500 rpm, with power being in the 75-80BHP region. I later had mine tuned and the limiting factor was the bikes ignition which actually retarded severely at 9,500 rpm limiting further progress.
With modern bikes this sort of cheating is so much easier, but at the same time dyno's are more common and therefore easier for manufacturers to get caught.
I wonder if this is why bikes arriving at Hilltop have such dissapointing power figures, as owners are expecting 100BHP from their stock twin cam as per the press bikes.
Doesn't this prove what we already know?
1) Ride the bike yourself, we all like different things.
2) Don't believe anything a journo says. Even if he is being honest he made have been duped/manipulated.
For the record I believe Kevin Ash to be the best Motorcycling journalist around.
1) Ride the bike yourself, we all like different things.
2) Don't believe anything a journo says. Even if he is being honest he made have been duped/manipulated.
For the record I believe Kevin Ash to be the best Motorcycling journalist around.
Day out; plus question
Agreed. +1 on the bulk-buy day out.
If I am considering other upgrades e.g. K&N filter, manifold/exhaust etc, should I do this prior to re-mapping or is there no need for further dyno testing if these changes are made later on?
Sean
And me - lets have a GS (and RT) day or weekend
Agreed. +1 on the bulk-buy day out.
If I am considering other upgrades e.g. K&N filter, manifold/exhaust etc, should I do this prior to re-mapping or is there no need for further dyno testing if these changes are made later on?
Sean
neoviper
Registered user
make all changes before i remap it ,just a quick note i am away from 7th july to 13th july so im in on sat 14th
Interested to hear if the improved smoothness means a cure for the vibration above 5000 revs, or maybe not all bikes have this? The remap sounds like a no brainer to me as my GS is not as free revving as I think it should be, and vibrates enough to blur the mirrors above 5000 revs.
My bike had that same vibration from about 4,800 rpm to about 5,800 rpm. After the re-map it's as smooth as silk and pulls like a train all the way to the redline. Tickover is also super smooth now, in fact you could hear the improvement on tick over as soon as Geoff wheeled it out of the Dyno room.
ta
Thanks, will sort out other options prior to booking in.
make all changes before i remap it ,just a quick note i am away from 7th july to 13th july so im in on sat 14th
Thanks, will sort out other options prior to booking in.
Just had mine done by Geoff at Hilltops. 2008 bike with standard silencer, standard air filter and OE pipes but with cat removed.
1) Bought bike completely standard, fuelling below 3k crap, midrange dip around 5/5.5k, generally very lean. 08/09 bikes would appear to be worse than earlier bikes in this respect.
2) Fitted accelerator module. Takes 5 mins to fit, makes a significant difference to low speed running. Money well spent.
3) Cat out w/accelerator module, better still.
4) Acc. module removed prior to an afternoon on the Dyno with Geoff at Hilltop.
The result of the remap is exactly as reported by others on this thread (and probably others).
Initial run consistent with others done previously i.e. 80bhp / 72 ft/lbs and very lean.
After Geoff's fettling we got 103bhp / 84 ft/lbs which once again is what others have reported for their bikes.
As correctly pointed out previously the peak figures are of course at the top end and therefore unlikely to be used as much day to day. However, comparison of before and after dyno charts shows quite clearly that power and torque are increased throughout the rev range. Put simply, the more revs you use, the bigger the gain, but most importantly the hole in the midrange is filled in.
The result in seat of the pants terms is this;
sub 3k running - probaby as good as its going to be. Its a big twin cylinder motor remember but if so inclined will pull a gear higher than before at speeds up to 50 mph. I don't, but its a good measure of improved flexibility.
6th gear roll ons are noticeably improved all the way from 3k up but especially from 70 to 85mph which is very useful.
General feel is smoother and perkier.
It ain't cheap but the benefits are clear and measurable. Many people spend this much or more on rubbish which only improves the bike in their mind and not in the real world. Geoff obviously has huge knowledge and is more than happy to explain why and what he is doing. All in all a very interesting afternoon, he even managed to fix the weather for me!
So, another big thumbs up from me.
Geoff, thanks mate, you can add me to your ever growing list of satisfied customers.
1) Bought bike completely standard, fuelling below 3k crap, midrange dip around 5/5.5k, generally very lean. 08/09 bikes would appear to be worse than earlier bikes in this respect.
2) Fitted accelerator module. Takes 5 mins to fit, makes a significant difference to low speed running. Money well spent.
3) Cat out w/accelerator module, better still.
4) Acc. module removed prior to an afternoon on the Dyno with Geoff at Hilltop.
The result of the remap is exactly as reported by others on this thread (and probably others).
Initial run consistent with others done previously i.e. 80bhp / 72 ft/lbs and very lean.
After Geoff's fettling we got 103bhp / 84 ft/lbs which once again is what others have reported for their bikes.
As correctly pointed out previously the peak figures are of course at the top end and therefore unlikely to be used as much day to day. However, comparison of before and after dyno charts shows quite clearly that power and torque are increased throughout the rev range. Put simply, the more revs you use, the bigger the gain, but most importantly the hole in the midrange is filled in.
The result in seat of the pants terms is this;
sub 3k running - probaby as good as its going to be. Its a big twin cylinder motor remember but if so inclined will pull a gear higher than before at speeds up to 50 mph. I don't, but its a good measure of improved flexibility.
6th gear roll ons are noticeably improved all the way from 3k up but especially from 70 to 85mph which is very useful.
General feel is smoother and perkier.
It ain't cheap but the benefits are clear and measurable. Many people spend this much or more on rubbish which only improves the bike in their mind and not in the real world. Geoff obviously has huge knowledge and is more than happy to explain why and what he is doing. All in all a very interesting afternoon, he even managed to fix the weather for me!
So, another big thumbs up from me.
Geoff, thanks mate, you can add me to your ever growing list of satisfied customers.
trainman
Registered user
good point - can a GS final drive bear another 20% HP, has anyone found out the hard way!!
davidblythe
Registered user
anyone got any pre and post dyno graphs of bhp against revs inc AFR readings
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