(RIP) Bin Ridin
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Goose, good luck, hope it all gets sorted. bin
Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles
- Thread starter Roberto
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Was up talking to Geoff yesterday at Hilltop while I had my car MOT'd next door... I mentioned a similar thing with the Explorer having a very sensitive throttle .....
He suggested he could dial it out with a re-map as it was likely it was a programming issue with the secondary butterflies not sync'd with the primaries ...
I pretended I knew what he was talking about
IanC
Registered user
Booked in for Thursday am
Geoff's attitude was just as I'd expected "Oh, ANOTHER GS" !
Mine's a 2006 GSA with 77k on the clock - I did ask if he thought it was pushing my luck to squeeze more power out of such an engine, and even whether it was worth it!
He was adamant it was a good idea. Anyone think not? I'm slightly hesitant! She seems to be a little rattly of late when I first start the engine, mostly after being parked on the sidestand - in fact so much so that I usually park on the centre now.
Geoff's attitude was just as I'd expected "Oh, ANOTHER GS" !
Mine's a 2006 GSA with 77k on the clock - I did ask if he thought it was pushing my luck to squeeze more power out of such an engine, and even whether it was worth it!
He was adamant it was a good idea. Anyone think not? I'm slightly hesitant! She seems to be a little rattly of late when I first start the engine, mostly after being parked on the sidestand - in fact so much so that I usually park on the centre now.
might be the cam chain tensioner
Or a cam follower, Have you had to adjust one valve more often than the others ?
Team tosser re-map day
Hi all,
Have been very busy recently so haven't had the time to post much since the recent re-map day.
Here's a brief summary.
Firstly thanks to Bigrodders for leading the route up the Fosse Way followed by a tour of the dual carriageways of Coventry. Thankfully we didn't quite make it onto the optional detour around Leicester too
Always a pleasure to follow an IAM rider - gives me something to laugh at when I see how many indicator signals they can fit in over a mini-roundabout 
I learnt quite a lot from Geoff about how his re-mapping process works. It's all a bit complicated, and clearly we take a lot on trust as it's all electronically programmed into some mysterious black box away from prying eyes. In short:
The air:fuel ratios are frequently a fair distance away from optimal in standard tune. This is altered as part of the re-mapping process and is also part of the process you might have if you fit a power commander etc. There's a lot more that goes into the re-mapping though....
There are five seperate curves or programs sent to the black box. They alter a lot of settings along with fuelling ratios - timing being the main thing. This is related to the ability of the black box to read the speed and throttle position sensor then select an appropriate setting. Basically the settings sent to the engine become more aggressive the harder you wring the throttle, yet are nice and relaxed if you're pootling around town. There was lots more but I forgot most of it...
My bike was quite underpowered compared to others on it's inital run. Fuelling wasn't miles off (A/F ration 14.5-15.0 as opposed to 13.0 +/- 0.5), but the bike was delivering peak power of 69bhp @ 7381rpm, max torque 57ft/lb @ 3952rpm:
As you can see the power delivery (curve going bottom left to top right) and torque is quite bumpy with a big drop off at about 4000rpm.
At this point by electrickery the new settings are sent to the ECU. I am guessing these are generic setting for the GS block. After an engine cooling off period we got this:
Power now near 97bhp, torque 75ft/lb. A little dip around 5000rpm, but nothing like before.
At this point there is some more electrickery and I am guessing that the generic curve is now twiddled with to produce something more specific to the individual bike. Now looks like:
Now a bit over 97bhp, torque 82ft/lb. Smooth delivery. The fiddly bit at the right hand side is to do with dialling in some engine braking - Geoff correctly diagnosed this as a weak point of my bike from the first curve. Since getting home I noticed the AF ratio is a bit low in the lower end of the rev range - not sure how important that is.
Next up is an a multi-gear run - the lumps correspond to 2-3-4-5-6. Power and torque delivery rise as revs rise through the gear range:
A bit more tweaking and we get to:
Power and torque smoothed out through the gears. Not sure of benefit here but maybe makes things smoother as you roll-on and -off.
In terms of practicalities the bike seems much smoother to ride, and low speed cornering and roundabouts are much more comfortable. Things are a fair bit less "grabby" on the throttle.
On the ride home we found a handily placed test area that was NOT AT ALL on the UK road network. Initial acceleration in 4th or 5th seemed for a moment to be as before then the character changes, and the bike just goes and goes. There's nothing sudden or jerky, it just delivers in spades.
I have yet to work out whether my fuel economy has been seriosuly affected. Over the couple of months prior to re-mapping I was getting 47+mpg, and so far it's 48+ but I need to see how that settles over time. I may have been enjoying the bike a bit more than usual recently
Overall I'm very happy. This, for me, was not about a quest for power, although that's very welcome of course. I may not have got the most power of the engines done on the day, but I suspect I got the biggest gains as my numbers were much worse at the start. The tractor is now loads less lumpy and a much more pleasurable ride. Hopefully I will get some efficiency gains too.
Hi all,
Have been very busy recently so haven't had the time to post much since the recent re-map day.
Here's a brief summary.
Firstly thanks to Bigrodders for leading the route up the Fosse Way followed by a tour of the dual carriageways of Coventry. Thankfully we didn't quite make it onto the optional detour around Leicester too
Always a pleasure to follow an IAM rider - gives me something to laugh at when I see how many indicator signals they can fit in over a mini-roundabout I learnt quite a lot from Geoff about how his re-mapping process works. It's all a bit complicated, and clearly we take a lot on trust as it's all electronically programmed into some mysterious black box away from prying eyes. In short:
The air:fuel ratios are frequently a fair distance away from optimal in standard tune. This is altered as part of the re-mapping process and is also part of the process you might have if you fit a power commander etc. There's a lot more that goes into the re-mapping though....
There are five seperate curves or programs sent to the black box. They alter a lot of settings along with fuelling ratios - timing being the main thing. This is related to the ability of the black box to read the speed and throttle position sensor then select an appropriate setting. Basically the settings sent to the engine become more aggressive the harder you wring the throttle, yet are nice and relaxed if you're pootling around town. There was lots more but I forgot most of it...
My bike was quite underpowered compared to others on it's inital run. Fuelling wasn't miles off (A/F ration 14.5-15.0 as opposed to 13.0 +/- 0.5), but the bike was delivering peak power of 69bhp @ 7381rpm, max torque 57ft/lb @ 3952rpm:
As you can see the power delivery (curve going bottom left to top right) and torque is quite bumpy with a big drop off at about 4000rpm.
At this point by electrickery the new settings are sent to the ECU. I am guessing these are generic setting for the GS block. After an engine cooling off period we got this:
Power now near 97bhp, torque 75ft/lb. A little dip around 5000rpm, but nothing like before.
At this point there is some more electrickery and I am guessing that the generic curve is now twiddled with to produce something more specific to the individual bike. Now looks like:
Now a bit over 97bhp, torque 82ft/lb. Smooth delivery. The fiddly bit at the right hand side is to do with dialling in some engine braking - Geoff correctly diagnosed this as a weak point of my bike from the first curve. Since getting home I noticed the AF ratio is a bit low in the lower end of the rev range - not sure how important that is.
Next up is an a multi-gear run - the lumps correspond to 2-3-4-5-6. Power and torque delivery rise as revs rise through the gear range:
A bit more tweaking and we get to:
Power and torque smoothed out through the gears. Not sure of benefit here but maybe makes things smoother as you roll-on and -off.
In terms of practicalities the bike seems much smoother to ride, and low speed cornering and roundabouts are much more comfortable. Things are a fair bit less "grabby" on the throttle.
On the ride home we found a handily placed test area that was NOT AT ALL on the UK road network. Initial acceleration in 4th or 5th seemed for a moment to be as before then the character changes, and the bike just goes and goes. There's nothing sudden or jerky, it just delivers in spades.
I have yet to work out whether my fuel economy has been seriosuly affected. Over the couple of months prior to re-mapping I was getting 47+mpg, and so far it's 48+ but I need to see how that settles over time. I may have been enjoying the bike a bit more than usual recently
Overall I'm very happy. This, for me, was not about a quest for power, although that's very welcome of course. I may not have got the most power of the engines done on the day, but I suspect I got the biggest gains as my numbers were much worse at the start. The tractor is now loads less lumpy and a much more pleasurable ride. Hopefully I will get some efficiency gains too.
Also, which bike year thegasman ?
bike info
06 GS. Standard plain vanilla.
Actually Geoff didn't seem to rate most after market mods...
06 GS. Standard plain vanilla.
Actually Geoff didn't seem to rate most after market mods...
Ok - just back on the rock - figures are;
BHP
Before - 79+
After - 103+
Torque
Before - 64+
After - 83+
Bike was fresh with very few miles on it DOHC with no mods - may even loosen up a little over the next few months.
I will be carrying out roll ons against an identical bike that is pre-map, over the next couple of weeks - if the weather is nice
So far the bike seems much smoother a 2,000 revs on.
original_concept
Registered user
As the forum software on this site is so shite:
the remap is great.
Do it.
the remap is great.
Do it.
Dont understand graphs/charts, dont really know how things "work" but had my bike done at Hilltop on Friday and just know that it runs better, smoother & more of that torque thing.
Geoff began explaining things to me but my head hurt.
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Geoff began explaining things to me but my head hurt.
Recommended
Great news Wilf - that beasts the 10 15 hp gain I was hoping for - looks like I already have (or will by Saturday night) the IDEAL Bike!Ok - just back on the rock - figures are;
BHP
Before - 79+
After - 103+
Torque
Before - 64+
After - 83+
Bike was fresh with very few miles on it DOHC with no mods - may even loosen up a little over the next few months.
I will be carrying out roll ons against an identical bike that is pre-map, over the next couple of weeks - if the weather is nice
So far the bike seems much smoother a 2,000 revs on.
Yes, the figures themselves are very impressive, and it does pull more cleanly at very low revs - however, I will reserve full judgement until I have been able to compare the two bikes pre and post against each other - this (along with trailing throttle on off cornering) should be more telling than any graphs. Provided these test show what I believe they will, then I'll have no reservations in a complete recommendation.
I'm still baffled at a 30% increase in both bhp and torque - which seems incredible, if not completely unbelievable
I am a sceptic at heart, but still put up my cash to try it out and will report back soon.
I'm still baffled at a 30% increase in both bhp and torque - which seems incredible, if not completely unbelievable
I am a sceptic at heart, but still put up my cash to try it out and will report back soon.I'm still baffled at a 30% increase in both bhp and torque - which seems incredible, if not completely unbelievable
I'm glad youre a cynic
I'm sure I'll go for a remap but i still find those figures hard to believe - give it some on the mountain the two bikes should be chalk and cheese
Everyones seeing a 30% improvement but people talk about 'smoothness' - id expect a lot more with those sort of figures. I'm still shocked that a bog standard 1200 only produced 80hp. My 1150 did more that that at the wheel and my 1200 feels a lot stronger
Yes, with the figures it should be chalk and cheese - the bike feels better, from only motorway runs and my pillion was very impressed at the before and after - so that alone is worth cost so far.
The mountain run - well the whole lap really - will tell though. We have a few spots were we have planned roll ons and as there is only 1 stone in weight between us there should be a lot of difference in it.
The 1150 figures I have seen have been well under 80 though. IIRC they are only 85 at the crank, so I would expect around 70 ish rear wheel. Most tests when the R12GS came out put the R1150 at about 75 and the R1200 at 95. A clear 20bhp increase over the earlier models. I do not think is mush between the R1200's, which should be the case with only 10bhp being claimed.
Really looking forward to some dry weather for a quick lap - may even venture out this evening for either a solo or two up lap while everyone is having tea
The mountain run - well the whole lap really - will tell though. We have a few spots were we have planned roll ons and as there is only 1 stone in weight between us there should be a lot of difference in it.
The 1150 figures I have seen have been well under 80 though. IIRC they are only 85 at the crank, so I would expect around 70 ish rear wheel. Most tests when the R12GS came out put the R1150 at about 75 and the R1200 at 95. A clear 20bhp increase over the earlier models. I do not think is mush between the R1200's, which should be the case with only 10bhp being claimed.
Really looking forward to some dry weather for a quick lap - may even venture out this evening for either a solo or two up lap while everyone is having tea
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