Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

[spm0912]

Ignore the bloody figures! It's all smoke and mirrors anyway. AFAIK Geof may be altering something on the test to inflate the readings but, the bottom line is whatever he does it makes the bike so much nicer to ride. You may well achieve the same effect with a Power Commander and Dyno setup but that will cost a lot more than going to Geoff.

This thread is full of people singing the praises of this remap, maybe we've all been duped? But I doubt it. 20% increase in power? Doesn't feel like it TBH but I'm really not interested in numbers.

If you're looking for a 20% increase in power that you can feel, go elsewhere.
Want to richen up the mixture, smooth out the torque, add a bit to top end, Geoff's your man

 

[Bendy toy]

I think a 20% increase in power from a well running bike is highly unlikely. But a bike running weak/lean, maybe with other stuff out of synch its entirely possible, because the thing was way down on power to begin with.

The diesel car I was on about probably did make 90bhp (eventually) and the chip certainly took it to 110 but diesels do chip a lot better than petrols. I got the huge fuel consumption improvement because the tuner sorted out pre-existing problems. It wasn't all down to the chip.

Power Commanders change the ECU inputs and outputs to allow the engine to make more power. A remap/chip changes the database information used by the ECU to release power it normally wont try to get to.

 

[karlp]

I don't give a monkeys about peak BHP, gains over stock etc. I care about tractability, smoothness, reliability and no reduction in MPG over stock. The GS runs very lean for emissions and has a history on some bikes of valve failure.

I would welcome the improvements that Geoff can provide and if he quoted 150 BHP at the rear tyre as bragging rights I wouldn't care either way, that's not what it's about for me.

In everyday use this is what it is all about

 

[Blackal]

The diesel car I was on about probably did make 90bhp (eventually) and the chip certainly took it to 110 but diesels do chip a lot better than petrols. I got the huge fuel consumption improvement because the tuner sorted out pre-existing problems. It wasn't all down to the chip.

Not really true - a supercharged engine will chip a lot better than a naturally-aspirated engine. It just so happens that most Diesel engines are supercharged.

A remap of your ecu is a more "elegant" solution to altering the fuelling on a bike than the traditional Power Commander, and if you're willing to take the chance - something you might "forget" to tell your insurer about.

But - just like a PowerCommander - I wouldn't modify a bike still under warranty.

Al

 

[Pukmeister]

Those GTR curves look good Bryn, a flat torque curve and a nice smooth power curve with no dips or holes. I bet it rides well.

 

[Mr Bean]

Read this

http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/dynotesting.htm

I have always been interested in the torque curves than the BHP, however BHP is what sells the bikes and is what people talk about down the pub.




Karl

Karl,

I've had a speed read of the jkm link and there is something that causes me concern.

The bike didn't move its position on the rollers as it was fixed at the front , so by default the back wheel must have been on the same point of the roller and the atmospheric pressure readings varied by only 0.1mbar. But, on the first graph the correction factor applied uses the SAE method and subsequent graphs describe an ISA factor.

I did a quick Google and can't find anything on ISA, but if any peeps have info I'd be pleased to read it.

Do others graphs show a variance between methods?

 

[Bryn]

Those GTR curves look good Bryn, a flat torque curve and a nice smooth power curve with no dips or holes. I bet it rides well.

Certainly does

 

[Pukmeister]

ISA is just International Standard Atmosphere.

When I used to Optimise Rolls-Royce marine gas turbines it was necessary to correct them to ISA conditions as a common datum, otherwise the days pressure and temperature conditions would affect performance results. You could optimise an Olympus engine to make 25 thousand horsepower in the Central Persian Gulf and it should be the same as one optimised in the Irish Sea.

ISA is 1013 millibars and 15 degrees centigrade.

 

[skywalker]

- something you might "forget" to tell your insurer about.

But - just like a PowerCommander - I wouldn't modify a bike still under warranty.

Al [/QUOTE]

Interesting point!!! I wonder how many people on here have notified their insurers that their bikes have been remapped ??
All leading to an invalid insurance policy if they haven't I suppose.

 

[karlp]

Karl,

I've had a speed read of the jkm link and there is something that causes me concern.

The bike didn't move its position on the rollers as it was fixed at the front , so by default the back wheel must have been on the same point of the roller and the atmospheric pressure readings varied by only 0.1mbar. But, on the first graph the correction factor applied uses the SAE method and subsequent graphs describe an ISA factor.

I did a quick Google and can't find anything on ISA, but if any peeps have info I'd be pleased to read it.

Do others graphs show a variance between methods?

Should be same method used before and after remap to get a comparison

Maybe the people atvHill Top can explain why

It just goes to show that just quoting figs etc does not give the full story

 

[seahorse]

[/QUOTE]

Interesting point!!! I wonder how many people on here have notified their insurers that their bikes have been remapped ??
All leading to an invalid insurance policy if they haven't I suppose.[/QUOTE]

Nobody need worry about it, I don't think there is any way to tell its been modified in the first place.

 

[148stu]

I don't give a monkeys about peak BHP, gains over stock etc. I care about tractability, smoothness, reliability and no reduction in MPG over stock. The GS runs very lean for emissions and has a history on some bikes of valve failure.

I would welcome the improvements that Geoff can provide and if he quoted 150 BHP at the rear tyre as bragging rights I wouldn't care either way, that's not what it's about for me.

Glad you agree, because thats the only point I was making, I just don't get the whole highly inflated claims issue, I'm not doubting for one second that the bikes are not better when they come out...

Its laughable that people don't appreciate that there are other blokes with experience in getting good power from motors, they always take somebodies word as gospel and then bury their head in the sand and get all defensive...

Its always hard to interact with people on a forum without sounding condescending, simply put, some of us are involved with racing etc..... I just choose to ride a GS on the road!!

As for the cost be expensive for a PC+Map, its not, you can pick up PC's for approx £200 (ebay) and a map will set you back approx £150, thats £350, pretty much the same cost as whats on offer here, but if I choose to sell my bike, I'll sell my PC like I've always done and pull back £150 ish guaranteed..you can't sell on a "flash"...

Jim Hodson, 20+ years at the TT as well as Aintree and Wirral 100 club regular top 3 finisher, Pete Beale motor..£££££££ spent... El Rapido... as well as Danny Hailliwell, Aintree 600 champion 2010, John Hilton and myself, all Wiganers who race or have raced together, so really, I do appreciate a good chat on here, but I'm just tired of the fog...

Lets just have some honesty and clarity thats all...

 

[skywalker]

Interesting point!!! I wonder how many people on here have notified their insurers that their bikes have been remapped ??
All leading to an invalid insurance policy if they haven't I suppose.[/QUOTE]

Nobody need worry about it, I don't think there is any way to tell its been modified in the first place.[/QUOTE]

That's an extremely naive viewpoint. Insurance companies will do all they can to explore different avenues if they think there's any chance of mischief at fault. You've also overlooked an area such as the police accident investigation section. Believe me its easier than you think to find out what's been done.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Interesting point!!! I wonder how many people on here have notified their insurers that their bikes have been remapped ??
All leading to an invalid insurance policy if they haven't I suppose.

Nobody need worry about it, I don't think there is any way to tell its been modified in the first place.

That's an extremely naive viewpoint. Insurance companies will do all they can to explore different avenues if they think there's any chance of mischief at fault. You've also overlooked an area such as the police accident investigation section. Believe me its easier than you think to find out what's been done.

Reading this thread would be a good starting point.

 

[Blackal]

Reading this thread would be a good starting point.

Okay - it was claimed that a dealer couldn't interogate the ECU and find out about any re-flashing. That is not the same as being absolutely sure that BMW cannot.

Sure - these Rexxer folk (or whoever) are very clever - but surely BMW are just a bit clever also?

The other thing to consider - are the number of people who have proudly pronounced on here (and other places) that the reflash has transformed their bike.

I'd hold off on that very public announcement if I hadn't informed my insurers.



Just a thought.........

Al

 

[Martyn H]

It could be argued that in most cases Hilltop are merely getting the engine to provide the power/torque that the manufacturer claims. A "super Service" perhaps ?

 

[Blackal]

It could be argued that in most cases Hilltop are merely getting the engine to provide the power/torque that the manufacturer claims. A "super Service" perhaps ?

I wouldn't want to be arguing that - from a hospital bed, though.......

Al

 

[Pukmeister]

And there's the rub, when does improving the standard kit become a 'performance upgrade' or 'modification'?

Especially where lean running and a risk of engine damage is a possibility that's easily corrected by a dyno tune.

 

[Delboy777]

Its a pity they are so far away, id like to have a remap, but its a fair run doon fae Moray

 

[alistairl]

Its a pity they are so far away, id like to have a remap, but its a fair run doon fae Moray

Tell you what Derek, when I get my Adventure we can make a trip of it