Removing the cams on a TC

[MattW]

Hi all,
Looking for some information from anyone with access to a reprom or who's done it.

How long would it take to remove and refit the cams on one side of a TC?

I put my bike in to a main dealer for service in Friday and got a call at 11:00 to say that the bike wouldn't be ready on time as the mechanic had dropped a shim behind a cam and that they would have to remove the cams to get to it.

They spent the rest of the day on it and two hours today and I'm still waiting for a call to say it's all done.

I'm smelling a giant rat and don't think I'm being told the truth - I'm thinking that they've either lost a shim or one of the circlips down the cam chain tunnel, or its otherwise unaccounted for.

At a conservative estimate, I'd say they've spent 6 hours so far sorting this 'issue' out - is this a reasonable time to remove, refit and retime the cams on a TC (assuming they need retiming, this is what they told me). If it was a single cam, I'd immediately call bullshit (I've had plenty of those heads to pieces) but I've never worked on a TC.

I won't be charged for any of this extra work but I've a feeling that I'm being lied to and want some ammunition if there are any issues in the future (like they lost the shim and decided to bolt it all back together and hope for the best).

Cheers
Matt

 

[autogs]

you know the answer already really dont you,i reckon there are some porkies being told get down there and insist on seeing your bike

oh and cams out an hour if you have a nap in the middle of doing it

 

[King Key]

Does it really matter? If they made a mistake and are fixing it at their own expense is it really a problem?

 

[autogs]

yes it does matter if they are being deliberatlely sparse with the truth,if they fecked up big time so be it everybody makes mistakes,being honest about it counts in my book.

 

[Deleted account 190920001]

I agree. Shit happens but being lied to shouldn't.

 

[MattW]

Indeed, it does matter because they will try to minimise cost to themselves, possibly at my expense (call me cynical).

However, at 5:30 tonight I had a call to say it's all rebuilt, has been road tested and ready for collection tomorrow. The invoice details all the work that's been done (including details of the remedial work to retrieve the lost shim - which I'd have asked for if it hadn't been volunteered). Profuse apologies and a substantial discount on the invoice.

So, perhaps to do a proper job of removing the cams on a TC is long winded. In the end mistakes do happen but it 'is a problem' because I'm self employed (a heating engineer) and have had to feck around rescheduling (and losing) work to accommodate their mistake.

 

[Neil W]

It matters if they dropped his bike off a bike lift, or the mechanic dropped it on a test ride or they put the drain plug in forgot to replace oil and ran it.

I would want to see the bike asap to find out wtf has actually happened

 

[adventuredon]

Its not a long job..if the gaps are correct (MattW see my recent post re adjusting valves/gaps etc - I think you may have replied to it?). Anyhow, if the valves are not in tolerance, new shims need to be fitted. If they were in stock, its not a long job. Maybe 15 minutes. As a novice, I ake about 30 minutes a side fannying about checking and rechecking! If the shims were not in stock, a delay. But the actual refit is simple and quick. See here for a link on how...https://sanjosebmw.smugmug.com/Other/Tech-pictures/
Agree being lied to though..

 

[BlueBird]

Its not a long job..if the gaps are correct (MattW see my recent post re adjusting valves/gaps etc - I think you may have replied to it?). Anyhow, if the valves are not in tolerance, new shims need to be fitted. If they were in stock, its not a long job. Maybe 15 minutes. As a novice, I ake about 30 minutes a side fannying about checking and rechecking! If the shims were not in stock, a delay. But the actual refit is simple and quick. See here for a link on how...https://sanjosebmw.smugmug.com/Other/Tech-pictures/
Agree being lied to though..

Have to say that looks pretty easy,love the design of these engines.

 

[MattW]

I'm sure that doing the valve clearance is pretty straightforward (I've never done them on a TC but have on plenty of single cam BM's). However it would appear that actually removing the cams isn't a quick job...

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

From Reprom

Replace all camshafts shows as 22 FRU (8 per hour) this is after the cylinder heads have been removed

 

[Bendy toy]

If I was the dealer I'd be making 100% sure that errant shim is found.
If it's gone down the cam chain tunnel the job will take as long as it takes. I'd also be using my top technician who might not be immediately available.
Delays and uncertain timelines suggest to me this job has been handled perfectly without any sleight of hand.
Buy them a bottle of whisky. They deserve it.

 

[Greenman14]

Buy them a bottle of whisky. They deserve it.

If it's a dealer you generally trust and if, when you speak to them they are open about what happened then a thank you gift would be in order. Dealers are people too, and not all of them bad; they'll remember you next time.

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

The cam timing has to be adjusted using a special jig, which might or might not be available. You can do it by eye, but the dealer probably would not do that.

 

[Bendy toy]

The timing gears sit on fixed keys but the gears have to be timed on the correct teeth. Timing adjustments from the factory setting would need a special vernier hub.
If the head or a cam has been removed the parts will need to be jig aligned in some way. Otherwise the four cams and two pistons could be anywhere.

 

[(RIP) Bin Ridin]

Hi, the cam chain sprockets are not keyed to the camshafts, they rotate freely until fixing screws are tightened, locking them together. Timing not hard to do by eye, but the jig would be better. Hard to imagine needing to remove the cams to get at a wayward shim.....

 

[MattW]

Thanks for the information everyone.
Bin Ridin - what you've posted fits with what I was told by the service manager and explains the time it took to remove and refit the cams. It also explains why they tried quite hard and took some time to try and fish the shim out without having to remove the cams.

I picked the bike up today and it's running great - before the service it sounded a bit tappety and the throttle sync felt a bit out but it's running a treat now.

And of course I did thank them (although Sunday isn't a service day for them so I couldn't thank the technician in person). When I spoke to the service manager on Saturday evening he apologised profusely and gave me a pretty substantial reduction on the invoice. It won't stop me going back to them. It's the first time I've taken a bike to a main dealer for service so it was a bit of a babtism of fire but mistakes happen - if they'd communicated a with me a bit better when things went pear shaped with the shim I wouldn't have gotten suspicious about what was happening - probably a lesson for me and the dealer.

 

[autogs]

every days a school day,glad it ended well

 

[Steptoe]

Its not a long job..if the gaps are correct (MattW see my recent post re adjusting valves/gaps etc - I think you may have replied to it?). Anyhow, if the valves are not in tolerance, new shims need to be fitted. If they were in stock, its not a long job. Maybe 15 minutes. As a novice, I ake about 30 minutes a side fannying about checking and rechecking! If the shims were not in stock, a delay. But the actual refit is simple and quick. See here for a link on how...https://sanjosebmw.smugmug.com/Other/Tech-pictures/
Agree being lied to though..

But changing the shims is nothing to do with removing the cams to retrieve a part.

 

[adventuredon]

I have since discovered that I have not read the question correctly. I lost the point when I saw the word shims. I originally thought he meant cam followers..my bad..