naked jon
Guest
Can someone out there tell me what they thimk of the adventure screen ref. buffeting on their 1150 before I go and buy one?
Hansell
Guest
naked jon said:Can someone out there tell me what they thimk of the adventure screen ref. buffeting on their 1150 before I go and buy one?
Are you wanting advise on buying an ADV or just the screen to fit on a std GS?
If just the screen...DON'T BOTHER...
If the ADV READ ON...
I've had an ADV since July 2002 and have ridden just under 12,000miles.
It has, without doubt, the single most buffet and noise creating piece of 'shite' screen I have ever had the misfortune of sitting behind.
There, I feel better now thats off my chest.
However, I thoroughly enjoy my ADV bike as a whole and won't part with it just because B*W made a cock-up of the screen.
Opinions are like arseholes, we all have one and the're all different to some degree but the amount of ADV owners that complain and/or buy aftermarket screens is pretty big from what I've seen (There are even web sites dedicated to it, see below!)
Whilst waiting for the 'screen combination for me' I get by with a Touratech screen extension, again some like it and some don't.
I will admit it is not the best solution to the problem but it certainly (for me) cuts out quite a lot of the 'crap' (mind you, mine is a screen extension made originally for the standard GS screen that I modified for the ADV screen, Touratech now make one specifically for the ADV screen but I don't know how it compairs with mine).
Right now I am awaiting Tobers (www.stopthebuffeting.com) to produce the ADV version of his word-famous TOBINATORS. Check-out above site, they're looking pretty good. Also check-out this site forum just to see what else can be done:
(http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24503)
My advice is this:
If you don't mind excessive buffet/noise or you are willing to spend a little time and money discovering the right screen (or, with the TOBINATORS, 'configuration' of the ADV screen) then go-for-it, it's a 'Kin' brilliant bike.
First thing you should do though is take a thoroughly LONG TEST DRIVE ON AN ADV as some people, with reasonably short upper torso and a lower seat, will not feel the full force of the buffet/noise.
Hope this helps / makes sense?
Madmountainman
Registered user
Had both versions and the Adv one is better, not perfect but better. The air flow is smoother than the standard screen but it is still noisey but you don't get the turbulence that causes your head to be jostled all over the place. Awaiting Tober's thingies to see if that is the ultimate solution.
daver
Guest
I too had a really bad case of buffeting on my R1150GS with Adventure screen. I couldn't go above 100 km/h because some horrific buffeting.
Mounting the MV airshield solved all my problems. No more buffeting and no more bugs on my visor
BTW i'm 1m83, seat on highest position.
Also see:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10458
Mounting the MV airshield solved all my problems. No more buffeting and no more bugs on my visor
BTW i'm 1m83, seat on highest position.
Also see:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10458
naked jon
Guest
screens
Well guys, I'm even more confused.
I cruise at 95mph and the buffeting is on the sides of my helmet, not the top (ooh err missus) and is bearable.
If I raise my head, the airflow is smooth, but at either side, there is rough airflow - turbulence.
By the time 120 is up, it's rough, but just bearable if I lean forward a little.
It seems to make little difference between middle and top positions on the screen mounts - I'm 5' 9" in old money by the way, with the seat on low position.
None of the screen extensions seem to address this because they are at the top of the screen, which is why I wonder if fitting an ADV screen onto my GS might help, because it is wider.
Another option would, I assume, be to bring the screen closer, but I am not so keen on that.
And the GS is ugly enough without fitting tobinators thanks.
Anyroad, thanks for the feedback so far, anyone else got any ideas/thoughts/experience of the same problem?
jonny
Well guys, I'm even more confused.
I cruise at 95mph and the buffeting is on the sides of my helmet, not the top (ooh err missus) and is bearable.
If I raise my head, the airflow is smooth, but at either side, there is rough airflow - turbulence.
By the time 120 is up, it's rough, but just bearable if I lean forward a little.
It seems to make little difference between middle and top positions on the screen mounts - I'm 5' 9" in old money by the way, with the seat on low position.
None of the screen extensions seem to address this because they are at the top of the screen, which is why I wonder if fitting an ADV screen onto my GS might help, because it is wider.
Another option would, I assume, be to bring the screen closer, but I am not so keen on that.
And the GS is ugly enough without fitting tobinators thanks.
Anyroad, thanks for the feedback so far, anyone else got any ideas/thoughts/experience of the same problem?
jonny
CoolCarbon
Guest
I'm really confused. I've ridden 2 1150s, both with standard screens, I've never experienced any buffeting at all, even at high speeds. I just don't see what the fuss is about
jpisace
Guest
I can sympathise with a lot of your comments given my vertically challenged status (5'6"). I have the low seat option (on 2000 model 1150) and still want a different screen to compensate for the level of buffeting on the torso/shoulders. I have fitted the Tobinators and they do not add/detract from the original ugliness of the bike. They are a quality product and unless you know the GS, then the average person wouldn't recognise them as anything other than OEM. They have mad a significant difference for me. Yet still not enough.
I too am now waiting for Tobers to complete the Adv option so that i can then change the screen for a wider version. Will either opt for the original GSA screen or more likely a Cee Baileys (even wider). Once bought if it still doesn't meet my expectations then i'll be going back to Tobers to modify it until it does. i can live with the screen as it is, but i don't want to. i want to be able to enjoy the bike all year. The buffeting, wind noise etc is a nuisance. But try Tobers first. You may like it, and they won't effect the ugliness.
Johnieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I too am now waiting for Tobers to complete the Adv option so that i can then change the screen for a wider version. Will either opt for the original GSA screen or more likely a Cee Baileys (even wider). Once bought if it still doesn't meet my expectations then i'll be going back to Tobers to modify it until it does. i can live with the screen as it is, but i don't want to. i want to be able to enjoy the bike all year. The buffeting, wind noise etc is a nuisance. But try Tobers first. You may like it, and they won't effect the ugliness.
Johnieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Het CC - I'm not sure what the subject of the photo is...The screen, Citroen or wife bending over in the shed?
sjwb
Registered user
I agree with Rob Farmer. I do not see what the fuss is about. We are of course riding a motorcycle here. You know, out in the fresh air - unenclosed.
Apprpos screens, I have just fitted a Wunderlich one piece (to keep the cold air off me in the winter) and it seems different to the standatrd screen in that I don't get bugs on my visor now.
Apprpos screens, I have just fitted a Wunderlich one piece (to keep the cold air off me in the winter) and it seems different to the standatrd screen in that I don't get bugs on my visor now.
Banjaxed
Registered user
Don't bother with the Adventure screen
By itself it WILL cause buffeting (believe me, mine does) and it's expensive. Ricardo (on the AdvRider site) and Tobers (here) have identified the problem - not enough air getting behind the screen and causing partial vacuum. As the air spills over the lip of the screen into the area of low pressure, it rotates and if yer helmet is there - turbulence.
Ricaro's method (cutting NACA ducts in the screen) seems to work for many of our Dremel-wielding cousins (and look what Honda did with the PanEuropean screen). Tobers solution achieves the same end without insane butchery...(and see the design of the MRA screen).
Results so far?
Adventure screen by itself - good weather protection, buffeting.
Adventure screen+Laminar Lip (to smooth out the airflow) - much better, but still some buffeting
Tall Z-Technik screen by itself - better, as it pushes the air higher, still buffeting
Tall Z-Technik+Tobinators - good but not perfect
Tall Z-Technik+Tobinators+suggested positioning from Tobers himself - spot on.
Rode 2500 miles across (hot) Europe - plenty of cooling airflow, NO buffeting.
Tobers is the man. Buy them - to hell with what it looks like.
By itself it WILL cause buffeting (believe me, mine does) and it's expensive. Ricardo (on the AdvRider site) and Tobers (here) have identified the problem - not enough air getting behind the screen and causing partial vacuum. As the air spills over the lip of the screen into the area of low pressure, it rotates and if yer helmet is there - turbulence.
Ricaro's method (cutting NACA ducts in the screen) seems to work for many of our Dremel-wielding cousins (and look what Honda did with the PanEuropean screen). Tobers solution achieves the same end without insane butchery...(and see the design of the MRA screen).
Results so far?
Adventure screen by itself - good weather protection, buffeting.
Adventure screen+Laminar Lip (to smooth out the airflow) - much better, but still some buffeting
Tall Z-Technik screen by itself - better, as it pushes the air higher, still buffeting
Tall Z-Technik+Tobinators - good but not perfect
Tall Z-Technik+Tobinators+suggested positioning from Tobers himself - spot on.
Rode 2500 miles across (hot) Europe - plenty of cooling airflow, NO buffeting.
Tobers is the man. Buy them - to hell with what it looks like.
CoolCarbon
Guest
Rob Farmer said:Het CC - I'm not sure what the subject of the photo is...The screen, Citroen or wife bending over in the shed?
Hey Rob,
Youz pretty observant......
I hadn't even clocked Mrs CC getting some Ice out of the freezer for the next Gee & Tee.
The Fridge/Freezer in the Garage is dedicated to keeping the Liquid refreshments at a suitable temperature.......The subject was of course ducking the breeze........the Carbon blade behind the MRA Screen seems to create the desired airflow behind the Screen and gives the airflow a kick up
But at the end of the Day (don't you just hate that phrase), we are all riding what is almost a nekid bike and we ain't ever going to get RT Protection no matter what we do
CC
Big Al
Guest
SJWB is correct - we are riding a bike and must expect some wind passing by, the problem is buffeting which is uncomfortable and tiring.
The original BMW screen gave unbelievable buffeting - I am 6ft 1in tall - so within a week of buying my 1150 I had ordered a GIVI screen.
Two weeks later I rode Cherborg to Nogaro (600 miles) 2-up in the day, not mega miles but on a strange bike.
I use the middle setting and have a fair amount of air pressure to the chest and arms but no buffeting, on the Nogaro trip I was cruising at 80 / 90 just about all the way.
Since then I have covered 14k miles - mostly two-up - in comfort and with no complaints from the back (she is only 5ft 4in so she hides)
Although a Givi is not fasionable it does the job well and is not too expensive.
I could be a bit ultra critical as this is my first foray off of a RT - I won`t of course be going back to one.
Al
The original BMW screen gave unbelievable buffeting - I am 6ft 1in tall - so within a week of buying my 1150 I had ordered a GIVI screen.
Two weeks later I rode Cherborg to Nogaro (600 miles) 2-up in the day, not mega miles but on a strange bike.
I use the middle setting and have a fair amount of air pressure to the chest and arms but no buffeting, on the Nogaro trip I was cruising at 80 / 90 just about all the way.
Since then I have covered 14k miles - mostly two-up - in comfort and with no complaints from the back (she is only 5ft 4in so she hides)
Although a Givi is not fasionable it does the job well and is not too expensive.
I could be a bit ultra critical as this is my first foray off of a RT - I won`t of course be going back to one.
Al
if you look at the stopthebuffeting site, you'll see my red 1100 with an 1150 screen on it. The tobinators allow the adjustment to vary the screen from -
upright = major buffeting but no torso pressure
to
slanted down = no buffeting but major torso pressure.
and obviously anywhere in between.
There is a 'sweet spot' that gives no buffeting and no torso pressure.
This screen position can only be found by experimentation depending on your size and riding style.
i personally tested my sweet spot up to 7k revs in top last night.
work that one out.
Phil
upright = major buffeting but no torso pressure
to
slanted down = no buffeting but major torso pressure.
and obviously anywhere in between.
There is a 'sweet spot' that gives no buffeting and no torso pressure.
This screen position can only be found by experimentation depending on your size and riding style.
i personally tested my sweet spot up to 7k revs in top last night.
work that one out.
Phil
Scootfast
Guest
Another varable to the buffeting problem (which is VERY real on a GS at any speed above 50mph!) is what kind of helmet you're wearing.
My ARAI full face is very sensitive to buffeting and has some kind of natural harmonic resonance frequency which is brain damaging at certain speeds on the GS.
My ROOF flip-up is much better at handling the buffeting and doesn't bounce around anywhere near as much.
My solution in any case is TOBINATORS,
for touring I use a Wunderlich touring screen with tobinators, this directs the wind clear above my head and to the side of my shoulders. Almost scarily still and comfortable at 110mph, with earplugs offcourse!
For tooling around I use a cut down standard screen with tobinators which directs the wind down to just below my helmet, leaving my head in undisturbed air and no buffeting.
The key is to allow enough air behind the screen, by increasing the gap at the front with tobinators, to prevent the vacuum behind the screen which causes the "thunderclaps" we're calling buffeting, it's the turbulent air rushing back to fill the vacuum which causes the head movements. and noise.
My two peneth worth...
My ARAI full face is very sensitive to buffeting and has some kind of natural harmonic resonance frequency which is brain damaging at certain speeds on the GS.
My ROOF flip-up is much better at handling the buffeting and doesn't bounce around anywhere near as much.
My solution in any case is TOBINATORS,
for touring I use a Wunderlich touring screen with tobinators, this directs the wind clear above my head and to the side of my shoulders. Almost scarily still and comfortable at 110mph, with earplugs offcourse!
For tooling around I use a cut down standard screen with tobinators which directs the wind down to just below my helmet, leaving my head in undisturbed air and no buffeting.
The key is to allow enough air behind the screen, by increasing the gap at the front with tobinators, to prevent the vacuum behind the screen which causes the "thunderclaps" we're calling buffeting, it's the turbulent air rushing back to fill the vacuum which causes the head movements. and noise.
My two peneth worth...
I'm 5ft 10" and rode both 1150s, both with standard screens, at full speed and can honestly say I did not get any buffeting. My 1100 has a slightly raised screen and gets no buffeting at all. Scootfast you say that it's a very real problem over 50mph I'm saying that I'm yet to see it.
I had a K75 for a month that buffeted at anything over 60Mph. So I do know how anoying it can be. I just haven't experienced it on a GS...at any speed.
I had a K75 for a month that buffeted at anything over 60Mph. So I do know how anoying it can be. I just haven't experienced it on a GS...at any speed.
All those that do not experience buffeting are obviously missing out on an essential character building component of GS ownership.
Therefore, I propose to construct a buffet-inducer to solve this problem.
The initial top-secret design for the buffet inducer (now known as the "Anti-Tobinator") has a large flap of carbon fiber edged with rubber. This is semi-rigidly fixed to the top of the screen with a flexible aerospace-grade polymer. At speeds above 30mph, the flap ossciliates wildly, producing the required buffeting. At anything over 80mph, initial tests reveal a quite painful slapping sensation causing retina detachment, loosening of molars and bursting of blood vessels. Just about right I think.
For speeds under 30pmh, I am working on a small Motoswitch-powered motor which will initiate large-scale buffeting, even when stationary.
I may or may not show this Anti-Tobinator prototype at Princetown and depending on demand will start immediate production at my new factory in Ulan Bator.
Therefore, I propose to construct a buffet-inducer to solve this problem.
The initial top-secret design for the buffet inducer (now known as the "Anti-Tobinator") has a large flap of carbon fiber edged with rubber. This is semi-rigidly fixed to the top of the screen with a flexible aerospace-grade polymer. At speeds above 30mph, the flap ossciliates wildly, producing the required buffeting. At anything over 80mph, initial tests reveal a quite painful slapping sensation causing retina detachment, loosening of molars and bursting of blood vessels. Just about right I think.
For speeds under 30pmh, I am working on a small Motoswitch-powered motor which will initiate large-scale buffeting, even when stationary.
I may or may not show this Anti-Tobinator prototype at Princetown and depending on demand will start immediate production at my new factory in Ulan Bator.
Scootfast
Guest
OK - another couple of variables:
it depends how you sit on the bike... if I lean forward and crouch down a bit behind a standard screen I can get out of the buffeting too but it's not comfortable in the long run.
Also body proportions make a difference, I'm 5'10", short legs and long body and I like to sit upright 'cause of my back. This positions my head high and far away from the screen where the buffeting is worse.
(a big issue on the GS is the long distance between the screen and rider)
By lifting the screen and allowing more air behind the screen, and also tilting it back, it allows me to sit where I want with no buffeting.
I like the Tobinator solution because it allows a huge range of screen positions to cover all these individual variables.
If you aint got a buffeting problem you're probably the GS ideal ergonomic shape sitting in the intended position...
it depends how you sit on the bike... if I lean forward and crouch down a bit behind a standard screen I can get out of the buffeting too but it's not comfortable in the long run.
Also body proportions make a difference, I'm 5'10", short legs and long body and I like to sit upright 'cause of my back. This positions my head high and far away from the screen where the buffeting is worse.
(a big issue on the GS is the long distance between the screen and rider)
By lifting the screen and allowing more air behind the screen, and also tilting it back, it allows me to sit where I want with no buffeting.
I like the Tobinator solution because it allows a huge range of screen positions to cover all these individual variables.
If you aint got a buffeting problem you're probably the GS ideal ergonomic shape sitting in the intended position...
Scootfast
Guest
LOL
Just read your anti-tobinator post with a mouthfull of tea... now all over the keyboard!!!
Just read your anti-tobinator post with a mouthfull of tea... now all over the keyboard!!!
naked jon
Guest
Guys Guys Guys , wot can I say???!!!
I've had me GS 2 weeks, and done 1000 miles so far.
I've gone and bought a new helmet 'cos the old one was appaling in the wind ( last bike an RT you see, so I forgot wot wind was).
I am amazed and delighted at the response to my questions, and you've given me loads of ideas.
I'll persevers with the original screen for now, but I'll try the lowest setting and see wot it's like.
Anybody at the MAG show at Minster Lovell this Sunday?
If so, see you there
Cheers,
Jonny
I've had me GS 2 weeks, and done 1000 miles so far.
I've gone and bought a new helmet 'cos the old one was appaling in the wind ( last bike an RT you see, so I forgot wot wind was).
I am amazed and delighted at the response to my questions, and you've given me loads of ideas.
I'll persevers with the original screen for now, but I'll try the lowest setting and see wot it's like.
Anybody at the MAG show at Minster Lovell this Sunday?
If so, see you there
Cheers,
Jonny
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