Slight movement in rear wheel

[Captain Black]

Got home tonight and checked my rear wheel for play, that's to say at the 3 and 9 o'clock and 6 and 12. I can feel maybe a couple of mm movement.
Would it be not worth worrying about or is it the wheel bearing that needs adjusting ?
Its a 1150 GSA with 22k on a 04 without ABS.
Would it indicate something other than the wheel bearing could be getting tired on on its way out......

 

[Aidan1150]

Have a look in this section for Steptoe's helpful "how to know which" thread. I can never remember which way round it is. ie One is if it moves with the brake on and the other is with the brake off.

It's probably just the paralever bearings that need adjusting.

 

[fatnfast]

Here you go:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39301&highlight=check+play+bearing

 

[DrFarkoff]

Movement with rear brake held on usually = paralever bearings

but if it disappears then likely the big rear bearing

 

[Captain Black]

I've just done the brake on test and I still have top to bottom and side to side play, it's not a lot but it is there.
So I'm assuming its the para lever bearing that can be tweaked up ? I'll do a search and try find a how to do thread.

 

[Captain Black]

Well watched that video and it seems long winded. Can't I just remove the nut and tweak it 1/8 to start with and see how it goes ? I'm guessing some heat maybe to break the thread lock though.
Certainly don't want to put what looks lie tons of thread lock on lie in that video. Would the old stuff be ok then just torque the nut to 105 NM

 

[Packer]

Heat gun to soften the thread lock, I seem to remember that 120ºC is required.

After you've got the adjustable side dismantled you need to clean the old threadlock off. Check for corrosion or damage to the bearing surface, lube the bearing and apply new thread lock prior to re-assembly.

I would probably replace the bearings unless it was an emergency repair.

 

[hops]

Heat gun to soften the thread lock, I seem to remember that 120ºC is required.

After you've got the adjustable side dismantled you need to clean the old threadlock off. Check for corrosion or damage to the bearing surface, lube the bearing and apply new thread lock prior to re-assembly.

I would probably replace the bearings unless it was an emergency repair.

Personally I'd give the threadlock on re-assembly a miss, but that's just my uninformed opinion. If you're concerned make a mark on the nut & swing arm in permanent marker & keep an eye on it.

 

[Aidan1150]

Personally I'd give the threadlock on re-assembly a miss, but that's just my uninformed opinion. If you're concerned make a mark on the nut & swing arm in permanent marker & keep an eye on it.

That's the way that I do it too.

 

[Captain Black]

Personally I'd give the threadlock on re-assembly a miss, but that's just my uninformed opinion. If you're concerned make a mark on the nut & swing arm in permanent marker & keep an eye on it.

I thought just mark the lock nut, then mark the inner Allen bolt and turn 1/8 to start with. If I was going with threadlock I'd maybe just do it on the nut, not the inner bolt spindle thingy.

 

[Captain Black]

Well taken the lock nut off marked its place, marked the inner adjuster and turned in five stages to a total of one 1/4 turn eliminating a little play each time, its 80 % better, but I can still feel one tiny sudden movement with an audible click or tick tap sound.
I don't want to over cook the tightness so shall I tweak slightly to see if it removes the click/movement or leave it at that ?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

The paralever bearings are not like tapered wheel bearings where you can just tighten them up to eliminate suspected play and that's it.

The bearings oscillate backwards and forwards and never complete a full turn. Therefore getting them set just right is the key to their long life.

Did you take out the inner race and examine the outer race for signs of brinelling. Because by the sound of it that is what you have got. Sure you can tighten them up, but they are going to fail.

If your are lucky and they aren't knackered, then you need to at least lubricate them.

If the bearings are good, when you do finally tighten them up, if you haven't got a low value torque wrench then hand tighten whilst moving the final drive up and down until there is no play in the swinging arm. This will bed the bearing inner and outer race together. Then slacken off and repeat until there is again no play. Mark the Allan bolt and fit the lock nut and torque.

Ian

 

[Captain Black]

The paralever bearings are not like tapered wheel bearings where you can just tighten them up to eliminate suspected play and that's it.

The bearings oscillate backwards and forwards and never complete a full turn. Therefore getting them set just right is the key to their long life.

Did you take out the inner race and examine the outer race for signs of brinelling. Because by the sound of it that is what you have got. Sure you can tighten them up, but they are going to fail.

If your are lucky and they aren't knackered, then you need to at least lubricate them.

If the bearings are good, when you do finally tighten them up, if you haven't got a low value torque wrench then hand tighten whilst moving the final drive up and down until there is no play in the swinging arm. This will bed the bearing inner and outer race together. Then slacken off and repeat until there is again no play. Mark the Allan bolt and fit the lock nut and torque.

Ian

Thanks Ian, I am sure what you say is totally correct. However I've done the following mainly through ignorance if I'm honest.
Marked the lock nut against the lever and removed it then marked the position of the inner pivot bolt against the para lever , followed by a mark at 90 degrees from its starting point so as not to over do it! I moved through to 90 degrees in five increments bouncing on the rear of the bike off the stand each time to work the bearing ( I understand the bearing only goes up and down as much as the pivot point pivots) its had a sixth and seventh tweak to take it at appx 110 degrees from the starting point.
I've got the faintest of clicks at the side/side check but its tiny.
I think I will monitor but maybe strip out and replace the pivot bearing and relube in the future. The bikes only done 22k miles and I don't think it's been tightened ( the pivot bearing) before. It's pivoting ok on the side stand when I add weight on it , I can't hear or feel any tightness or hear the dreaded grunching in the bevel bearing Steptoe mentioned in his notes on the other thread. Learning curve and all but thanks for your input Ian

 

[Captain Black]

The paralever bearings are not like tapered wheel bearings where you can just tighten them up to eliminate suspected play and that's it.

The bearings oscillate backwards and forwards and never complete a full turn. Therefore getting them set just right is the key to their long life.

Did you take out the inner race and examine the outer race for signs of brinelling. Because by the sound of it that is what you have got. Sure you can tighten them up, but they are going to fail.

If your are lucky and they aren't knackered, then you need to at least lubricate them.

If the bearings are good, when you do finally tighten them up, if you haven't got a low value torque wrench then hand tighten whilst moving the final drive up and down until there is no play in the swinging arm. This will bed the bearing inner and outer race together. Then slacken off and repeat until there is again no play. Mark the Allan bolt and fit the lock nut and torque.

Ian

Just re read over this " hand tighten" how's that possible ?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

The left hand side adjuster should only be tightened up to 7nm which is not very tight. So tighten the adjuster up slightly as if you were using a screwdriver to turn it. Don't use a big lever, or you will over tighten it.

So it's tighten slightly whilst moving the final drive up and down to seat the bearing inner races. Once you are happy with its position. Fit the big lock nut and making sure the inner adjuster doesn't rotate torque the locknut to 160nm.

Does that make sense?

 

[Ian J Hartley]

I don't surpose you removed the locknut and adjuster completely, so as to remove the thread lock.

So you are battling against the remaining loctite. This means you won't be able to achieve accurate results, and you certainly will not be able to hand tighten. You are going to have to do everything by feel and hope you haven't over tightened things.

Good luck

 

[Captain Black]

I removed the lock nut completely, but I didn't remove the inner (Allen key) adjuster, so it still has the original threadlock on it from the factory. My torque wrench is fairly long so I used that to get the leverage to start to move the adjuster stage by stage through finally to about 110 degrees from the start point, so just over 1/4 of a turn. I worked the pivot at each stage of adjustment ie off the main stand and off and on the side stand. It pivots ! But.... How stiff or tight it is through from top to bottom of its pivoting action I don't know.
I think I'll take the wheel off today and the lower arm and feel if its action is smooth and not tight or with any tight spots. ( should be fairly firm but not sloppy and deffo not tight, should it drop from top to bottom under its own weight ? If not what weight or pressure ? )
I assume its ok to return everything back to my original marks and start again if I need ? Hope I've not crushed anything
It feels ok it I'll do this procedure for peace of mind . I've only torque the lock nut to 105 NM, but not been on the bike yet so if my pivot test is good with the wheel off I'll just go to 160 and hope all will be good.
Thanks again Ian..

 

[Packer]

It should pivot under it's own weight and move smoothly throughout the entire travel available with no slop at any point. If it's been run for any time loose you may find that when you remove the slop in the normal position that it is tight at the ends of the travel.

If there is wear in the bearings and they can't turn freely at some point in the travel the races may start to turn in the castings, that might end with a bill in an entirely different league to that of inspection and lubing the bearings or even replacing them.

If you haven't removed the old threadlock you can't torque the lock nut accurately so witness marks are essential, bolt, locknut and casting.

 

[Captain Black]

It should pivot under it's own weight and move smoothly throughout the entire travel available with no slop at any point. If it's been run for any time loose you may find that when you remove the slop in the normal position that it is tight at the ends of the travel.

If there is wear in the bearings and they can't turn freely at some point in the travel the races may start to turn in the castings, that might end with a bill in an entirely different league to that of inspection and lubing the bearings or even replacing them.

If you haven't removed the old threadlock you can't torque the lock nut accurately so witness marks are essential, bolt, locknut and casting.

I think I'm starting to leann towards ordering new bearings and whatever else is needed seals etc to do the job. That's before I even take the back wheel off and check the pivot movement!

 

[Captain Black]

Well I've had the wheel off and the torque arm. The uppy / downy movement feels fine, no slop and not over tight, it feels right, right through the movement. Feck I dont know what right feels like! shit I'm just making this up as I go along!

Oh well it's better than it was ........err I think ?