Sluggish oh yes ;)

Have you checked for any error codes? My 1200 GS LC was having problems starting and after checking error codes it showed Crankshaft position sensor error. I replaced the sensor and all the starting problems disappeared and all is well now.

Ian
 
DrFarkoff said:
I am going to tell you what I tell everyone

IF it is slow turning over and is struggling ??

JUST STOP!!!

When you don;t have the volts you need the amps and what does amps get you ????

Yes heat and Loads of current surge!!! Electronics do not like surge as you well know

Also have a look for a good ground on the motor The OE one is a really poxy ring connector to the top of the block
Click to expand...
I understand your statement, but show me a hexhead, that isnt slow and wheezy to start 😏


I was thinking of doing the 2nd cable hack to the battery as well

The starter on my 06 only made it to 24k
The bikes at 22k, so its probably on its last legs
 
Santa-2512 said:
I understand your statement, but show me a hexhead, that isnt slow and wheezy to start


I was thinking of doing the 2nd cable hack to the battery as well

The starter on my 06 only made it to 24k
The bikes at 22k, so its probably on its last legs
Click to expand...
The second cable!

Reading your post made me wonder about earth connections as well...

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk
 
Santa-2512 said:
I understand your statement, but show me a hexhead, that isnt slow and wheezy to start 😏


I was thinking of doing the 2nd cable hack to the battery as well

The starter on my 06 only made it to 24k
The bikes at 22k, so its probably on its last legs
Click to expand...
Seems strange.
My bike an 06 adventure still has the original starter motor.
It has covered just under 148.000 miles.
It starts fine but I wouldn't say it turns over like my Suzuki TLs's do. Big twins also
It has only had 2 batteries since I bought it secondhand in 2008 with just 6.000 miles on the clock.
The previous owner had fitted an Odyssey battery just before I bought it, this lasted about 11 years or so and I replaced it with a motobatt even thought the odyssey hadn't failed.
I have never put by bike on a trickle charger, even when I put it away for 3 months in the winter.
I will just give it a couple of hours on a charger usually towards the end of January just to give it a top up.
I have now sorned it probably until march.
I'm away riding a bike around Vietnam again on Monday until January so wouldn't be using it anyway.
I'm only posting this because you say you think your starter may be on its last legs at 24.000 miles and they can clearly do a lot more.
 
So, Mrs Santa and elf out today,

Maintenance slot booked ;)

So lets get this starter out, and see what's going on

1) Battery charged and voltage checked ok 13.6v

2) Starter out, that was a pig, so the hexhead was easy , a couple of wobble extensions and out, the TC not so , right where i wanted to get access is the

servo box, so that had to be moved out of the way, still no joy there's a mounting plate in the way, ok I'll drop the exhaust remove the flapper unit .

Yea right, one sheared bolt later, that fucker is not coming off the down pipes :(

So rummage round the shed, and find another wobble bar, now i can get to the bolts ;thumb, then the start wont budge, the plastic cover is feck off

tight, and needs some persuasion

Finally cover +Ve & trigger wire are disconnected and the stumpy fecker is out

3) Strip starter , pretty easy, the pinion end is a bit dry and lots of dry black yellow gloop / grease - so all stripped cleaned and regreased and

assembled. Commutator was a bit black, but brushes good, cleaned the undercuts , and commutator , wiped all the magnets clean and reassembled

Now I've been looking at starters, and there appear too be many options

New OE , New Pattern, Refurb OE & used

Used is out, so its new OE or pattern

According to a well known breaker / supplier the longer units Arrowhead, Valeo, may not fit .. hmmm don't want to buy one and get caught out

Then I remembered I had an old valeo unit in the shed,, so old valeo (long) unit fitted, and servo box back in .. Result it fits

So old valeo unit out, and Bosch unit back in,

4) Add direct leads to battery - something that another site offers as a kit ( but you can do it your self ) for a fraction of the cost

5) Everything refitted and all leads connected, no smoke sparks or bangs

6) Pressed the starter and it was like it was on steroids , chug chug, and it was away ... Result

Now I've been bitten before, and just because it started it don't mean its fixed, I'm pretty sure the starter is dying , so i will be ordering another & a new

battery too


Now here's the question

Do I go OE , I can pick one up delivered to my door for £300 ( which may drop to £269, if the season of goodwill promotion covers it )

Or I can get a new Arrowhead unit for £200 delivered

Or i can go recon for £120

Warranty 12 months on all of them



Thoughts ?
 
Sounds like a good methodical approach, shame about the siezed bolt.
FWIW I'd probably go down the OE route if you are keen on keeping the bike as original as possible, the Arrow if you want a new starter that does the job - providing of course that it still looks good on the bike.
 
So quotes came back £269 for OE starter & clamp , -parts ordered, should be with me tomorrow or Weds

guess what i'm doing the weekend ;)
 
So guess what I'll

Starter.png be doing this weekend ;)


Interesting, according to the part number it should be a Bosch unit

Its marked SEG - a quick google, and it seems Bosch starters and generators are now part of SEG automotive
 
Unless the new starter motor is an uprated design for more cranking torque/power, or the old starter motor windings insulation has deteriorated enough to make it inefficient/weak I don't get why the old starter should need replacing once cleaned up and regreased ??
 
Pukmeister said:
Unless the new starter motor is an uprated design for more cranking torque/power, or the old starter motor windings insulation has deteriorated enough to make it inefficient/weak I don't get why the old starter should need replacing once cleaned up and regreased ??
Click to expand...
It probably is ok now stripped and cleaned but with a trip imminent and no way of getting parts in time if it should fail,
Rather safe than sorry
 
Ok update time

Mrs S out ;)

Bike on patio, and off we go

Old starter out, and new one in,

bit of a brown trouser moment when tightening up the solenoid connection,

as i was tightening it up, there was a click and the ratchet jumped one tooth. Uhh ohh, - quick check, old fucked ratchet nut is tight and not moving

Phew

All connections made

Turned on, no smoke or sparks

Pressed the starter bear in mind this is the old 18 month old battery

Chug brrrrm Holy shit, its on speed and steroids !!


Turned off and repeated ... chug, brmmmmmmmmm wowsa


Left it to come up to temp, turned it off and put tools back in shed

so approx 5 mins = refuel stop


turn odd and pressed the starter

Chugugh brrrrmmmmmm :thumb


New battery will be here on Tuesday

So yes initial thoughts were correct - starter was on the way out ,, 20-24k seems to be there average life


Yes the cleaned up one will prolly go on for some time more , but it would have let me down when i needed it


Noticed the innov wasn't shutting off though. hmmmm need to check that out

Oh and i dropped my hone and bust the screen, bollox, that's another expense just before Christmas lol
 
Assuming all other things being equal, it would be interesting to compare winding insulation and resistance values of both starter motors and any volt drop across the solenoid internal main contacts.
 
Santa-2512 said:
Ok update time

Mrs S out ;)

Bike on patio, and off we go

Old starter out, and new one in,

bit of a brown trouser moment when tightening up the solenoid connection,

as i was tightening it up, there was a click and the ratchet jumped one tooth. Uhh ohh, - quick check, old fucked ratchet nut is tight and not moving

Phew

All connections made

Turned on, no smoke or sparks

Pressed the starter bear in mind this is the old 18 month old battery

Chug brrrrm Holy shit, its on speed and steroids !!


Turned off and repeated ... chug, brmmmmmmmmm wowsa


Left it to come up to temp, turned it off and put tools back in shed

so approx 5 mins = refuel stop


turn odd and pressed the starter

Chugugh brrrrmmmmmm :thumb


New battery will be here on Tuesday

So yes initial thoughts were correct - starter was on the way out ,, 20-24k seems to be there average life


Yes the cleaned up one will prolly go on for some time more , but it would have let me down when i needed it


Noticed the innov wasn't shutting off though. hmmmm need to check that out

Oh and i dropped my hone and bust the screen, bollox, that's another expense just before Christmas lol
Click to expand...
Good result, was it fairly straightforwrd to install?
 
20-24k miles for their lifespan isn't true. Mine is already close to 60k with no obvious signs of deterioration.

I am running a lithium battery and I do smother the bike in ACF50 every autumn religiously... So far it's all behaving

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
20-24k miles for their lifespan isn't true. Mine is already close to 60k with no obvious signs of deterioration.

I am running a lithium battery and I do smother the bike in ACF50 every autumn religiously... So far it's all behaving

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Prehaps your lucky who knows

I dont know your useage so can only comment on mine based on usage and two bikes
 
Santa-2512 said:
Prehaps your lucky who knows

I dont know your useage so can only comment on mine based on usage and two bikes
Click to expand...
You might have a point. Mine tends to get started and only stopped at the next fuel stop
Your suggested lifespan does seem short though?!

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk
 
Slipperyeel said:
You might have a point. Mine tends to get started and only stopped at the next fuel stop
Your suggested lifespan does seem short though?!

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Mines 2 short journeys a day, and a coouple o f hot starts mixed in

Deffo dosnt do the battery that ggid
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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