Small Business Server

DollyRocket

Registered user
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
904
Reaction score
1
Location
Newbury
Anyone here got direct experience of upgrading from small business server 2003 to SBS2008?

Looking to get a new server for our company and sticking with SBS, but 2003 is no longer available. Would be interesting to see how peoples migration experiences went?
 
we're moving to a virtual server, might wort looking at. How many users have you got?
 
Is your original license OEM? if it isn't then you can move the OS to your new hardware. it isnt an easy thing your looking to do but then nothing to do with SBS is easy, anyway here is a step by step for you http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...63-78af-4a96-811e-284f5c1de13b&displaylang=en

couple of things to remember. SBS 2008 is 64bit only so the hardware needs to be 64bit, no big deal these days as 99% of servers are 64bit now. Any extra software you use also needs to be able to work on a 64bit platform and on SBS 2008 which is very often not the case. I dont know what parts your using in SBS but also remember that exchange is upgraded as well as SQL. The new exchange is a very different animal and your going to need a course or two to be able to use it. A lot of the controls are only available via the power shell! SQL, a lot of stuff wont run right under SQL 2008 so you need to check that your stuff will work if indeed your using SQL

Virtualisation is great, I run 6 host servers and about 20 VM servers in them but I wouldn't really recommend virtualisation for SBS. It hammers the disks too much with all the different databases on it so in reality it would probably be the only thing you could run on the host unless you have a large disk array on the server (read expensive). Virtualising isn't for performance, its for efficiency.

Hope that lot makes sense?
 
Depending on the size of the network and complexity of anything tied in to it I would recommend going for the "clean and pristine approach" (C&P) and just building a new domain and then migrate the data across.

Doing exactly this for a customer this coming week / weekend, I would not put myself down as an SBS expert as I have come from a more Enterprise background, but I would suggest....

consider waiting for the 2010 / 2011 or whatever they call it on the next one, SBS 2008 is Server 2008R1 and Exchange 2007, 2008R1 is the same kernel as Vista (and we know how much everyone loved that) and Exchange 2007 is a bit of a halfway house too, Exchange 2010 is much better, so unless your in a hurry wait a bit.

The C&P approach also makes for an easy roll-back if you cock anything up.

Usual due dilligence applies, check that everything will play on the new system, you may find software such as Backup and AV will need upgrading, you cannot get 64-bit drivers for some printers etc.

Also consider moving to Windows7 clients at the same time, they work better in many ways, especially with offline files and roaming profile handling - and are different in some ways to how XP does it, maintaining a mixed XP (and Earlier with Vista (And later) clients can be a real pain in the arse.

If you have several other servers virtualisation is worth considering, but normally no real big financial returns on smaller environments - except possibly better fault tolerance and disaster recovery options.
 
Another vote for the clean and pristine approach, always allows for offline testing time to see what does, and does not, work, while keeping the original production system going until you are sure you are ready to change.

I'd never recommend virtualisation for SBS, it has a lot going on sometimes, and you need a dedicated machine for it, at least at the sort of spec level SBS systems are normally.

Do you need all that SBS offers, or is it a basic server with Exchange, as often seems to be the case with SBS? My preference has been for Windows Server with Exchange as separate products, on the KISS principle, but it is not always economically sensible.
 
Do you need all that SBS offers, or is it a basic server with Exchange, as often seems to be the case with SBS? My preference has been for Windows Server with Exchange as separate products, on the KISS principle, but it is not always economically sensible.

That tends to be the problem throw in a couple of Server Licences, plus cals, add Exchange and then cals on top and it adds up, then virtualisation starts looking better for your seperate instances, but you than want to put disks on a SAN for vMotion :blagblah

Get a decent server, use SAS disks - Mirrored not on RAID5, and not that SATA rubbish, preferably something like an HP Proliant, 4 SAS disks in a mirror set, 2 PSU's and a good extended warranty so if it does fail someone comes and sorts it out PDQ.
 
I dont think you can upgrade SBS, I think it has to be a clean install on new hardware then the settings migrated across (answer file). Its a horrible platform that has never worked well but I understand why small organisations use it. By the time you add all your licenses and CAL's up the cost of doing it all on different platforms starts to mount up greatly Especially if you do it properly which would mean separate domain controller from exchange and :blagblah

If you do fancy going down the virtual route, dont get suckered into the VMware obsession. Its a good product but to get it to have any features costs a load. I use Xenserver which does a lot more for free than VMware. We run some free installs and some licensed depending on what is in them. None of them run on SAN's as I dont belive in them and it just gives you a single point of failure so whats the point. HyperV is also a good product but is still a little in its infancy so not as feature rich as any of the rest. Course you could go for Xen which is the open source version of Xenserver. It has absolutely everything and is completely free. The downside is that its all command line to control it which is fine if you know Linux. I know a guy over in the states who's company has a couple of hundred Xen hosts with a density of around 8 VM's per, now thats a lot of servers!
 
Our current SBS2003 server is on its last legs - The exchange DB has become corrupted a few times and it is no longer as fast as it once was. We have 3 servers in the domain, the other two are file servers. The sbs server runs solely exchange and handle the fmso roles. There is SQL on there (the free version ) for ACT and sage.

We have about 40 users (CALS) as SBS CALS. I did think about moving to a standard server with standard exchange but that would be quite an expensive route and I don't really know the reasons whether it would be better or not. I cannot see the qty of users increasing to the 75 user level during the next upgrade interval.

I have used SBS2008 in a different organisation and it looked quite simple however it was very slow for local administration - it was fast for network resource though.

Ultimately, I would like to replace the sbs2003 with either a plain server with exchange or another sbs product. I will be buying new hardware (64bit Dell server - probably pre-installed) . I just don't know exactly the route to take to migrate from one system to another. The exchange system is critical - I need to ensure that the user experiences no down time (particularly the sales guys with their iphones / bberrys who work 24/7!)
 
Clean and pristine is probably the best way as it sounds like the curent environment is a bit iffy.

Exchange 2010 can replicate databases and provide instant failover if uptime is really critical - This costs a lot with licences but does not need shared storage.

You can also easily replicate file server data using DFS-R from 2003R2 onwards, again no shared storage required.

Although a SAN does offer a single point of failure they are normally pretty robust, some are really two systems, I recently ran a project on a EMC Clarion SAN and it was built like a tank, everything doubled up, even disk cables - although it was probably over £100k' worth, but many reasonably proced SAN's can have dual power and dual disk controllers so the dingle point of failure is not a fair comment, OK if the building has burned down you SAN is gone, but then so have your two servers.

I have aslo run virtual machines from Windows based I-SCSI solutions, Starwind is very good and the free version allows you to have two concurrent connections - enough for VMWare to provide High Avaiilability and v-Motion.

As to virtualisation VMWare do have some great entry level bundles these days providing up to 3 Host servers + vCentre for a low cost, the ease of management, huge amount of free information on the web, good books etc make it a winner for me.

I have worked (and still work) with both ESX and Hyper-V, as soon as you want features such as Live Migration and High Availability it is much easier on ESX, also licensing Enterprise Edition of 2008R2 which is required for these features and adding in SCVMM makes it as expensive, or more so than the entry level ESX products.

Anyway I think the real issue here is to decide what you actually want or desire and then see what options fit the criteria, I see too many companies that just buy technology but have no idea why they bought product x, or what they intend to do with it.

Get a list of what is vital, highly desireable and nice to have and then compare to solutions and see how much it would cost to obtain each of these.

Although I stated High Availability for Exchange is very expensive, if you could not survive a few hours without E-Mail it may be a bargain, or perhaps a hosted Exchange would work for you? if this is cheaper you could sue the money for two servers and replicate other data and suchlike providing a very resilient network.

Or even introduce stuff in phases to spread cost - but always "Design as a whole" even when implementing in phases, all IT projects are 80% design and planning and 20% implementation - or at least the ones that work well and do what you want them to do are, so think before ordering anything or pressing any buttons!
 
Hi Rasher - Thanks for comments

I am all for planning - I have been putting off this for about 3 months but I don't think the SBS unit will last for another 3! All I want is to keep the current system running but I don't see the point in investing in old technology. I only want the exchange part but as I have already bought 35 sbs2003 cals I am tempted to stick with SBS since I can upgrade these. (It also means that we can maintain the server without extensive costly IT support)

I am reasonably IT savvy, having installed all of this in the past but I don't do it every day (I am more of a user and just want it to work without constant meddling).

I have seen a microsoft article for upgrading sbs and it appears to be straight forward - albeit in about 50 steps! so I was just wondering if anyone else has done it with or or bad results.

I like the idea of virtualisation, it means I could keep snapshot backups and easily migrate across platforms but I don't think I have the skills to do it as an upgrade - perhaps i could use the old server hardware to have a play. I use VMware on my Mac to run windows - is it really fast enough?
 
As you already have issues on current Exchange I would avoid upgrading as the Exchange upgrade would probably fail, and even if it did not you may have issues later.

Assuming no complex apps tied into the Active Directory I would suggest build the new environment, create new accounts and mailboxes (it is not too hard to use a DSQuery to grab account names from old domain and a powershell script to import them into new one, but with 35 accounts not so bad if you cannot do this)

For Exchange you can export / import using exmerge if keeping same mailbox aliases, but again with so few users it is not too difficult to export each one manualy to a PST and then import it into new Exchange manually (via outlook)

Profiles I would leave behind and start fresh, some may winge about things such as custom dictionary entried going awol, but unless anyone has major issues just copy the Favourites, Desktop and My Documents data to the new environment, you can use the transfer wizard, but it will possibly drag all sorts of crap across.

Bearing in mind any new PC's will be W7 the profiles are different anyway so IMHO not worth transfering as you will only need to migrate them again later.
 
Although I'm not generally a fan of cloud computing for data, especially critical data, I do suspect going for a hosted exchange service, like that offered by Cobweb, might be a future alternative to SBS.

Then someone else gets the hassle and costs of making sure Exchange services are always up and running, access for remote users can continue if your local internet connections fails, and, most importantly, you can schedule work on your in house systems without disrupting the all important email people seem to want running all the time.

But I've not done a cost comparison exercise, so I don't know how the costs stack up against the DIY version.
 
Cost will be ok for so few users but when we did a costing 6 months ago for 400 users external hosting costs were horrific. We were saving money having our own server after a year and thats after buying 2 big servers, exchange 2010 and all the licenses to go with it.
 
Cost will be ok for so few users but when we did a costing 6 months ago for 400 users external hosting costs were horrific. We were saving money having our own server after a year and thats after buying 2 big servers, exchange 2010 and all the licenses to go with it.

Was that with all the enterprise licences, got some customers interested in DAG clustering and all the compliance stuff, so far first customer decided they could live without clustered Exchange and put the archive in the clioud (keeping a single local Exchange server).

Cloud can look good, my only concerns are if the provider goes belly up you could lose critical data and have a lot of downtime, and you are also more dependant on your WAN link.

We have also started doing cloud based backups for some customers, this also works very well with no more tapes etc. all of these cloud offerings become less attractive the larger your company / data is.
 
Yes thats all enterprise CAL's. DAG doesnt have to be on another exchange server but obviously its far better to be in case you loose the hardware. Course you always have copy DB's as well which I have never tested to see how it works but DAG I have. I pulled the plug, literally on a server and there was no loss of email. Brought server back up synced the DB and attached it again and was back up in 15 mins again with both servers. Its good when a plan works and DAG really does. 2010 has a lot to offer over the older versions.
 
DAG is seemless to users and pretty quick, typically I would expect nobody to notice and it is a doddle to configure, if the roles are split failover of HT is also automated with zero downtime, failover of CAS is more tricky to configure and needs an NLB cluster configured.

Cross-site CAS Failover is the only dificult thing to configure as the clients will never be pointed to a CAS server outside of their own site, but if protecting mailboxes is the main thing and you have a single site it is so easy compared to clustering 2003 Exchange.

If you have two Exchange servers and two file servers and use DAG for Exchange and DFS for files you can build a pretty good fault tolerant network quite cheaply - even better if you have another office somewhere to drop the other servers so in the event of a fire or similar most of what you need is still up and running.

In the process of doing this for our tiny network, we have a 2010 Exchange Server, it is also a DC and File Server, plus we have an RDS (terminal) server for remote access, we have a site to site VPN to the MD's house from our workshop and will put a half decent server running ESX in his loft and have a virtual Exhange, DC, File and RDS Server running as guests.

SBS is a bit tricky as everything is on the one server, you can use DFS-R to replicate files elsewhere and have another DC, but high availability for Exchange is not possible, although the Dial Tone Recovery makes it quicker and easier than ever to rebuild and recover with less disruption.

What I find funny is so many business owners will spend £50k on a car, which if it breaks down has no real impact on the business, but ask them to spend a few thousand extra towards high availability on systems critical to the business and they winge about the cost, many won't even cough up an extra £200 for dual power supplies.
 
DAG is seemless to users and pretty quick, typically I would expect nobody to notice and it is a doddle to configure, if the roles are split failover of HT is also automated with zero downtime, failover of CAS is more tricky to configure and needs an NLB cluster configured.

What is DAG - Never heard of it (I am a sbs2003 user!) I am quite competant with setting up servers / domains and general IT - I am just worried about getting into a pickle on something that has the potential of going horribly wrong!.

Rasher - I saw your note and I am contemplating ....
 
Database Availability Group don't think it is available in SBS in fact I think SBS uses exchange 2007 where it is an Exchange 2010 feature.
 
Database Availability Group don't think it is available in SBS in fact I think SBS uses exchange 2007 where it is an Exchange 2010 feature.

That's what I mean, SBS has always been limited to a single Exchange Server (and even single database) so no clustering available.

The next SBS version should use 2008R2 and Exchange 2010 which will be a fair bit nicer, though whenever possible I will try to upgrade customers to the grown ups versions.
 


Back
Top Bottom