Some observations re CN Europe 2009

[Kritou]

This may have been posted previously and more experienced users may groan but having just installed my update DVD of the above it appears that:-

Map tiles are significantly smaller than previous - so presumably leading to faster recalculations on the GPS

There is a lot more information in each tile as the mapping for my routes from the NW of England to the south of France and back has grown from 196MB in CN Europe v8 to 320MB

Not sure how this will affect 2610 users but for us Questers on tour the upgrade is a bit of a double edged sword

Will have to pack the laptop!

 

[Redboots]

There is a lot more information in each tile as the mapping for my routes from the NW of England to the south of France and back has grown from 196MB in CN Europe v8 to 320MB

Can you just check if you can find a marker for PETRAT in France. The one I want is at N45.60644 E0.74587.

If its not there, you have the same, "detail compromised" version I have so I cant imagine what has bloated your route by 204mb!

John

 

[Redboots]

PETRAT in France. The one I want is at N45.60644 E0.74587.

Dickhead! its PEYRAT

 

[Kritou]

Can you just check if you can find a marker for PETRAT in France. The one I want is at N45.60644 E0.74587.

If its not there, you have the same, "detail compromised" version I have so I cant imagine what has bloated your route by 204mb!

John

Sorry mate, you have diappeared in 2009. Put your coordinates in and you are in the middle of nowhere - looked like a nice spot in v8!

 

[Redboots]

Sorry mate, you have diappeared in 2009. Put your coordinates in and you are in the middle of nowhere - looked like a nice spot in v8!

Then I suggest your 2008 map is way better than your 2009
Recalculate with the old version and see what you might be missing.

There were 13 places listed under a find for Peyrat... now only 3

John

 

[Berin]

It looks odd. Sort of blurry, and the colours make my eyes hurt a bit.

Still, MapSource 6.15 works with the Wanderlust maps - but not Marok Topo, I had to remove that and edit it from the registry.

 

[Berin]

There were 13 places listed under a find for Peyrat... now only 3

John

I can see 9 place entries for Peyrat

 

[Redboots]

I can see 9 place entries for Peyrat

I still only find 3. 2 in Dept. 87 and one in 23.
Are you using NT or non-NT? Mines non-NT

John

 

[Berin]

You're so right - I must have pulled down CN (NT) 2008 by mistake, which gives me 9 Peyrat's plus some others with Peyrat in the name. 2009 gives 3 In the departments you mention.

that's rubbish, isn't it?

If you look at one of the Peyrat's shown on the "find" function in 2008 then switch to 2009 it still look the same but says "lieu-dit Peyrat" with no marker

 

[Magwych]

3 for me too in non-NT version

If I zoom in on those coordinates, the road is labelled Lie-Dit-Peyrat at 80ft scale, at 150ft it is labelled Peyrat. Neither of those names appear in the serahc box for this area.

I am finding that more and more places have disappeared from searches in CN-2009. It could not even find Brick Lane in London when I fancied some late night Bagels recently ! It seems that one has to know a lot more about about destinations before searching now Maybe this is how Garmin are going to "encourage" us to upgrade to their latest models?

Although the Smelly Biker Wanderlust world maps still work in MapSource, the UKv2 maps do not.

 

[Berin]

UK 2.3 (routable) does work, though it's got bits missing, including the entire road I live on!

 

[Redboots]

I am finding that more and more places have disappeared from searches in CN-2009. It could not even find Brick Lane in London when I fancied some late night Bagels recently ! It seems that one has to know a lot more about about destinations before searching now Maybe this is how Garmin are going to "encourage" us to upgrade to their latest models?

I read somewhere that it is as a result of complaints about duplicate place names and people (Americans) going to the wrong destination - user error - so they have been reducing the duplicates.

Time for one and all to complain.

The real problem is that you can no longer navigate to these places. Its ok for me as I know where I live, but someone visiting for the first time is buggered.

Navteq make the maps... I assume they add/delete the poi's

John

 

[Kritou]

I emailed Robert Elsinga re the original "problem" and re replied as follows:-

You are running into an (obscure) "feature" of all GPS types: via-point
memory. A route can (generally, at least on a Quest) hold up to 250
via-points. A via point can be an explicit via-point, which you added to
the route yourself, but also an implicity via-point. These implicit ones
are internally created by Mapsource (and the Quest also) when creating a
route. Each turn becomes an implicit via... And you can have only 250 in
a route.

Now the fun starts: the Quest can only hold 2500 via's all together. And
you can load 20 route. But wait... 20 time 250 is 5000.... how does that
fit into the max 2500? Well... it doesn't. =8-}

When you get past the 2500 mark, then the real interresting stuff is
happening. The Quest may or may not truncate the route at the right
point and some part of the route may end up in some other memory area of
the Quest, corrupting some data (which may or may not be important).

So, to recapitulate:
- loading routes with more than 2500 via points (implicit or explicit)
together will "do stuff" to the quest
- the effects may (or may not) remain after deleting the routes

Best is to do a master reset (you did) and load less routes.

But how, you may ask, do you avoid it in the future? Well, you can't,
unless you load less routes (or routes with less via's). And on a
holiday trip, that might not be the way you like it... not taking a
laptop along to load routes along the way. (I do take a laptop, but
don't go on a trip on my 1100GS... need to take the wife and kids).

Best work-around:
- plan your trip
- create real waypoints for your explicit via's and name them
accordingly (trip1a, trip1b...trip1k, trip2a, you get the picture).
- load the first couple of routes to the Quest (no need for real
waypoints for those)
- after finishing a route, delete it from the Quest
- when you are out of routes in the Quest, create them on the Quest
itself from the real waypoints (trust the Quest to create the route how
you'd want it to, remeber to set the avoidances just like in Mapsource)
repeat the last steps for the rest of the trip

I know, cumbersom to say the least but it works. =

(thought I was a member at ukGSer, but I wasn't... feel free to copy
this reply onto the forum if you like)

--

Robert Elsinga =
www.elsinga.net

 

[Fanum]

- but not Marok Topo, I had to remove that and edit it from the registry.

Works on mine....6.15.4

Try re-installing it....sometimes ( i had the same with UK Topo) you have to add 'extra' maps and overlays after an upgrade rather than before

 

[Berin]

Works on mine....6.15.4

Try re-installing it....sometimes ( i had the same with UK Topo) you have to add 'extra' maps and overlays after an upgrade rather than before

Thanks - I'll try again.

 

[beemerboy9]

Then I suggest your 2008 map is way better than your 2009
Recalculate with the old version and see what you might be missing.

There were 13 places listed under a find for Peyrat... now only 3

John

Mind you, I looked at a Michelin large scale driving map and could only find the same 3 that are listed by Navteq.

Are you saying that the Navteq maps should have more Peyrat's than the Michelin road Atlas?

Would it not be more confusing if the two were out of line?

 

[Redboots]

Mind you, I looked at a Michelin large scale driving map and could only find the same 3 that are listed by Navteq.
Are you saying that the Navteq maps should have more Peyrat's than the Michelin road Atlas?
Would it not be more confusing if the two were out of line?

Is that in the index?

I exist in the 233 Yellow map (1cm:2km) and the IGN Blue Map 1932 O (1cm:250m - same as the topo maps).

The maps for Garmin & TomTom should take you to street level, so in that case, yes, there should be more detail than the Michelin road atlas. That ONLY takes you to street level for a section of a big'ish town/city... No?

They don't sell themselves at an atlas, but as a navigation aid. Its no aid if you cant find where you want to go.

Try going to Prades in Spain (Catalunya). There are 3 of them, all different.
There are also 19 others in France.
Now, off you go on your jollies with CN2009 to go to Prades in Spain. The one at N42.08030 E2.83252. You tell your GPS with CN2009 to take you there.
Its there in CN2008......

John

 

[beemerboy9]

Is that in the index?

I exist in the 233 Yellow map (1cm:2km) and the IGN Blue Map 1932 O (1cm:250m - same as the topo maps).

The maps for Garmin & TomTom should take you to street level, so in that case, yes, there should be more detail than the Michelin road atlas. That ONLY takes you to street level for a section of a big'ish town/city... No?

They don't sell themselves at an atlas, but as a navigation aid. Its no aid if you cant find where you want to go.

Try going to Prades in Spain (Catalunya). There are 3 of them, all different.
There are also 19 others in France.
Now, off you go on your jollies with CN2009 to go to Prades in Spain. The one at N42.08030 E2.83252. You tell your GPS with CN2009 to take you there.
Its there in CN2008......

John

You mean the Prades that is really part of Cornella del Terri? Not hard to find at all.
How did I work it out? Yes, I had to use a map and whatever braincells I have left.
Basically, having grown up with a Streetpilot III as my first GPS, I don't expect a GPS to be helpful at all unless I am pretty sure of where I'm going.

 

[Redboots]

You mean the Prades that is really part of Cornella del Terri? Not hard to find at all.

Correct, but you had more info than just a map of Spain to scan.

Basically, having grown up with a Streetpilot III as my first GPS, I don't expect a GPS to be helpful at all unless I am pretty sure of where I'm going.

The makes it a fecking ornament and not worth a toss then

John

 

[beemerboy9]

The makes it a fecking ornament and not worth a toss then

John

Let's not go there - otherwise the chaps who are still using maps only will say, "I told you so!"

After all, there are still folk driving their cars into rivers and getting their articulated lorries stuck down country lanes after following a Sat-Nav instruction.