Something strange happened with the clutch?

[beaver]

Been out today for a bit of a ride, 220 miles in all and had no issues what so ever. 67 plate bike just done 10K whilst out.

Anyway, on the way back I pull up behind a car at a T junction
She’d stopped to have a look see what was coming (you could have done that before as there were no hedges) and after what appeared to be 20 seconds or so, decided she could go... Just when a line of traffic showed up!

So she roller back a bit so her nose was not stuck out (I was well clear). Traffic goes, and she sits there another 20 seconds before trying again!.. same crack so we are still waiting.

Anyway I have my bike in 1st and just on the biting point with the clutch.
Traffic goes and she still sits there...

So I gave the bike a rev, still on biting point, and it acted like it went into gear with a clunk (although it was already in 1st) jumped forward, which made me jerk back, and then stopped again, I presume as the rev’s dropped... so I’m sat there, with the clutch still on biting point, maybe 6” further forward, wondering what just happened?

Anyway, she’d gone now so I could set off... and away I went... tried the same thing a few times on the way home, but nothing?

Now I know it’s not normal driving, but you should be able to rev the bike with the clutch just dragging a bit, without it fully engaging I’d of thought?....

Anyone else had this.. You do ready about varying biting points on the forums which suggests things move inside.. Could it be this?

Safe to say I’ll not be doing Hardknott pass for a few weeks until I’m sure it’s okay?

 

[Neil W]

Read a previous post by me in the summer , my 67 plate went f*cking crackers after stopping on the Autobahn in traffic and wouldn't pull away then went mental .....................eventually went , had a full check by BMW re the clutch slave cylinder, clutch pushrod, and clutch pack/basket stripped out all to no avail but it scare the sh*t out of me

The original post is titled 'Clucking Futch'

 

[beaver]

think I saw it at the time, will re-read it... has yours done it since?

do you think its related to the temperature at all? Mine sometimes has a chatter up to 3K when pulling away.. like when you are in traffic, but only when hot... wondering if the two things are related? It would of been hot waiting all that time?...

 

[batman1]

I don’t suppose it was the ‘Hill-hold’ engaging without you realising was it?

I always struggle to get a smooth start from the hill-hold position, in fact I tend not to use it because of this.

 

[Neil W]

Mine hasn't done it since (it does not have hill start). Dealer machanics said even though it does not have hill start all of the bits are on the bike although not enabled so perhaps it was an electronic glitch.

As usual bmw uk have never heard of any issues re the bikes, that includes wheel collapses,fork failures, esa probkems, failed switchgear, etc etc

 

[Bob Jeffries]

I've had the same thing happen twice, put it down to clutch overheating. It's not happened for a while now though - 2017 GSA TB.

 

[beaver]

come to think of it, I might of had it happen before myself.. coming home after a long ride and turning into the side road about 6 months ago... up hill, I did have the hill assist on that time, but it came off with a bang and I shot off in a semi wheelie...
this time I didn't have the hill assist on as I remember moving back and forward on the bite point... it could be heat for sure, but arn't these things used off road?... they would get far more hammer on the clutch there....
I'll call the dealer tomorrow see what they say... I know the answer will be to 'bring it in!'

 

[Neil W]

Scared the crap out of me when it happened ,however, if your dealer says that BMW have never heard of the issue then they are being fibbed to by BMW UK as mine went through as a warranty job and was recorded on their system as a potential safety problem.

If you have any issues with BMW denying the issue send me a PM and I will give you the regd nos of my bike , the date it was investigated and the delaer who did the warranty job

 

[beaver]

Didn't find time today for one reason or another.. so will follow it up in the New Year... see what's said.. Thanks for your help...

 

[ferguscawley]

Been out today for a bit of a ride, 220 miles in all and had no issues what so ever. 67 plate bike just done 10K whilst out.

Anyway, on the way back I pull up behind a car at a T junction
She’d stopped to have a look see what was coming (you could have done that before as there were no hedges) and after what appeared to be 20 seconds or so, decided she could go... Just when a line of traffic showed up!

So she roller back a bit so her nose was not stuck out (I was well clear). Traffic goes, and she sits there another 20 seconds before trying again!.. same crack so we are still waiting.

Anyway I have my bike in 1st and just on the biting point with the clutch.
Traffic goes and she still sits there...

So I gave the bike a rev, still on biting point, and it acted like it went into gear with a clunk (although it was already in 1st) jumped forward, which made me jerk back, and then stopped again, I presume as the rev’s dropped... so I’m sat there, with the clutch still on biting point, maybe 6” further forward, wondering what just happened?

Anyway, she’d gone now so I could set off... and away I went... tried the same thing a few times on the way home, but nothing?

Now I know it’s not normal driving, but you should be able to rev the bike with the clutch just dragging a bit, without it fully engaging I’d of thought?....

Anyone else had this.. You do ready about varying biting points on the forums which suggests things move inside.. Could it be this?

Safe to say I’ll not be doing Hardknott pass for a few weeks until I’m sure it’s okay?

Why do you hold the bike on the biting point of the clutch for so long?

Of course it will overheat doing that.

 

[beaver]

Why do you hold the bike on the biting point of the clutch for so long?

Of course it will overheat doing that.

when your getting ready to ride off, where do you hold yours??? It wasn't there all of the time.. just as I get ready.. but the car didn't move.. that's when I must of revved it and its been on the biting point.. and engaged somehow.. it should not do that.. does this mean you can't hold on a hill without it fully engaging?
So you're saying its my fault.. there is always one

 

[ferguscawley]

when your getting ready to ride off, where do you hold yours??? It wasn't there all of the time.. just as I get ready.. but the car didn't move.. that's when I must of revved it and its been on the biting point.. and engaged somehow.. it should not do that.. does this mean you can't hold on a hill without it fully engaging?
So you're saying its my fault.. there is always one

I hold the bike on the rear brake and let the clutch out only when moving off.

The clutch isn't designed to be constantly slipped or forholding the bike on a hill.

 

[beaver]

I hold the bike on the rear brake and let the clutch out only when moving off.

The clutch isn't designed to be constantly slipped or forholding the bike on a hill.

when did you take your test?... they tell you all the time to hold it on the clutch.
TBH I agree.. and I don't hold mine on the clutch either... as said above, just when getting ready to go.... But there again, never had this on any trials bikes I've had... and they do get a lot of clutch work...

 

[ymfb]

Maybe your machine has a fault, but I never hold my bike, car or camper on the clutch as it’s not designed to do that, it will overheat and wear out. You might not like the explanation but it’s common sense if you understand how a clutch works.

Slipping the clutch briefly for hill starts is unavoidable.

Sitting at a junction, in neutral ready to engage gear, hand on front brake, when ready put into gear and set off. Valentino I’m not, but I get away as quick as most and faster than many. Just because the DSA might want you to hold a machine on the clutch that doesn’t mean it’s best way to do it.

 

[beaver]

Maybe your machine has a fault, but I never hold my bike, car or camper on the clutch as it’s not designed to do that, it will overheat and wear out. You might not like the explanation but it’s common sense if you understand how a clutch works.

Slipping the clutch briefly for hill starts is unavoidable.

Sitting at a junction, in neutral ready to engage gear, hand on front brake, when ready put into gear and set off. Valentino I’m not, but I get away as quick as most and faster than many. Just because the DSA might want you to hold a machine on the clutch that doesn’t mean it’s best way to do it.

Did you read the post above? please stop telling me not to hold it on the clutch... I don't! But at some point when you are setting off from a stop, you have to let the clutch out and at that point you are slipping the plat (or plates).. you can't avoide it.
Yes I fully understand how a clutch works, I changed a few in my time on bikes and cars for friends, family, others.. who maybe don't know how they work. But I've never had one of mine go as I'm very easy on the clutch.

I have in the past done a lot of trials bike riding, and you do need to use the clutch a lot there, and maybe increase the rev's whilst holding it on the biting point. But I've never had one fully engauge and shoot off by doing this.

Strikes me there is something that moves, is lose etc in the boxer clutch or actuation system that gives variation of the bite point, and I'd not be surprised if thats what I've experianced here.

If for example the basket bearing had a bit of play in it... sat at tickover it may centralise itself and be happy, give it a rev, does it take up the play to one side, change the bite point and enguage???

 

[spoonz]

To me it doesn’t seem that much of a mystery. I suspect plate separation is minimal on boxers, (confirmed by the drag on mine and most I have ridden and the need to mod the pushrods on pre 15 models ). It wouldn’t take a lot of plate expansion from heat in traffic etc for that drag to become a bite. When the plates cool, the problem vanishes so dealer finds nothing. The drag on mine gets considerably worse in hot conditions or in traffic.

 

[beaver]

To me it doesn’t seem that much of a mystery. I suspect plate separation is minimal on boxers, (confirmed by the drag on mine and most I have ridden and the need to mod the pushrods on pre 15 models ). It wouldn’t take a lot of plate expansion from heat in traffic etc for that drag to become a bite. When the plates cool, the problem vanishes so dealer finds nothing. The drag on mine gets considerably worse in hot conditions or in traffic.

Agree.... add a bit of bearing play in there and you get a varying bite point.
When hot I get a clatter from mine now, only up to 3K when putting on the gas, so something is lose or has play. When I can get it to do it enough so the Techs can hear it, it will be back in.
I'm thinking it's a combination of close plates hence the clunk into gear when hot, and maybe the bit of play I have in something in mine?

 

[Neil W]

If this was an isolated incident on one bike ridden by one person you could say it could be down to rider misuse but it is not , others with similar aged bikes have encountered a similar problem .

People need to accept that BMW motorcycles do have issues that cannot be fobbed off by shouting loudly 'rider error'