Starter woes - help needed

[cookie]

quick and dirty test:

if you short the two M8 terminals together you should spin the starter. that will prove the starter motor itself works.

shorting the live M8 to the small spade terminal should throw out the pinion and turn the starter. that will prove the solenoid and engagement mech works.

use an old pair of pliers for the job.

 

[brassmonkey001]

you could also try whacking the starter relay when you press the starter button.

Oh, I did that. Whacking things is the first thing to do.

 

[brassmonkey001]

quick and dirty test:

if you short the two M8 terminals together you should spin the starter. that will prove the starter motor itself works.

shorting the live M8 to the small spade terminal should throw out the pinion and turn the starter. that will prove the solenoid and engagement mech works.

use an old pair of pliers for the job.

Yep. That works. It will start fine by hotwiring to the solenoid wire.

I've had the top off the relay as well and cleaned the contacts but it's made no difference. Nothing obvious to see in there.

 

[bumpmuncher]

Oh, I did that. Whacking things is the first thing to do.

oh well probably time to wiat for the post man

 

[Tarka]

You said earlier you were getting 12v +ve on the solenoid feed wire when you pressed the starter button.

If you were getting it the solenoid would fire just the same as applying a 'hotwire' to the spade connector.

So in what manner were you testing for and reading 12v +ve on the solenoid feed wire???

 

[(RIP) pastyman]

I know this may seem stupid but I recently had a similar problem where all the electrics seemed OK but when I pressed the starter button, .. click and bugger all. eventually traced it to a dodgy positive connection on the battery.
everything was ok , lights etc. but the extra oomph required by the starter just was,nt there. cleaned and tightened the terminal and all was well.
Just a thought

 

[brassmonkey001]

You said earlier you were getting 12v +ve on the solenoid feed wire when you pressed the starter button.

If you were getting it the solenoid would fire just the same as applying a 'hotwire' to the spade connector.

So in what manner were you testing for and reading 12v +ve on the solenoid feed wire???

Hang on, I'll ring you.

I know this may seem stupid but I recently had a similar problem where all the electrics seemed OK but when I pressed the starter button, .. click and bugger all. eventually traced it to a dodgy positive connection on the battery.
everything was ok , lights etc. but the extra oomph required by the starter just was,nt there. cleaned and tightened the terminal and all was well.
Just a thought

Worth a look.

 

[SJRoome]

Hi

You said earlier you were getting 12v +ve on the solenoid feed wire when you pressed the starter button.

If you were getting it the solenoid would fire just the same as applying a 'hotwire' to the spade connector.

I am afraid not. This proves that the wire can hold 12V when you need to provide enough current to move a multimeter needle, usually about 50uA. To activate the solenoid you need nearly a million times as much current.

Yep. That works. It will start fine by hotwiring to the solenoid wire.

Then tracking down the fault is simple. Leave one end of your hotwire on the small terminal on the starter and progressively move the other end back through the starting circuit until it suddenly stops working when you press the starter button.

quick and dirty test:

if you short the two M8 terminals together you should spin the starter. that will prove the starter motor itself works.

shorting the live M8 to the small spade terminal should throw out the pinion and turn the starter. that will prove the solenoid and engagement mech works.

use an old pair of pliers for the job.

Good advice on testing the starter itself, although I am confident your problem is in the wiring around the relay.

Good luck!

Steve

 

[bumpmuncher]

has one of the terminals been pushed/pulled partially out of the back of the connector block.

 

[PW Cymru]

Pulled the lead from the battery out of the starter relay and it literally fell apart.

God knows how it started before, it was as green as a green thing.

 

[brassmonkey001]

has one of the terminals been pushed/pulled partially out of the back of the connector block.

They all have in the course of testing, so not that.
On Tarka's advice I tried bridging out the terminals on the relay block but I ended up confusing myself as to what that was telling me. With the relay in place and two terminals bridged if I hit the button it would work fine but to my mind it should work with the relay out if you bridge the correct two terminals as that is what the relay essentially does - it makes a connection.
I was getting tired and naggy so have walked away for tonight. I'm banking on it being the relay at fault, if not I'm stuffed for Skye.

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

 

[bumpmuncher]

to my mind it should work with the relay out if you bridge the correct two terminals as that is what the relay essentially does - it makes a connection.
I was getting tired and naggy so have walked away for tonight. I'm banking on it being the relay at fault, if not I'm stuffed for Skye.

yes i think it should. couldnt you jury rig a wire from the battery to the starter with a nice big start button if it turns out not to be the relay

 

[brassmonkey001]

yes i think it should. couldnt you jury rig a wire from the battery to the starter with a nice big start button if it turns out not to be the relay

It has already been given serious consideration.

 

[bumpmuncher]

It has already been given serious consideration.

.

 

[brassmonkey001]

There appears to be continuity from pin 87 to the solenoid wire but there only appears to be around 6v to pin 30.
That's a G/S diagram BTW, mines a GS.

 

[brassmonkey001]

Bugger. Just got an email from Motorworks saying the relay will be despatched today.
Cutting it fine now. I was hoping to have the bike loaded up and ready to ride off straight away tomorrow, not putting it back together first.

 

[bumpmuncher]

Bugger. Just got an email from Motorworks saying the relay will be despatched today.
Cutting it fine now. I was hoping to have the bike loaded up and ready to ride off straight away tomorrow, not putting it back together first.

why does that happen when you want somthing quick. have you looked in any cars for a temporary donor

but there only appears to be around 6v to pin 30.
That's a G/S diagram BTW, mines a GS.

oh bugger when my loom incinerated itself it was that wire that caused it, its a direct feed from the battery with no fuse it had chafed through where it passes behind the ign coil grounded out causing a lot of smoke and pannic (had to replace the loom) probably worth checking the loom in that area.

 

[brassmonkey001]

why does that happen when you want somthing quick. have you looked in any cars for a temporary donor

Yes, I have.

oh bugger when my loom incinerated itself it was that wire that caused it, its a direct feed from the battery with no fuse it had chafed through where it passes behind the ign coil grounded out causing a lot of smoke and pannic (had to replace the loom) probably worth checking the loom in that area.

I'll be sure to inspect more thoroughly then.

 

[bumpmuncher]

Yes, I have.



I'll be sure to inspect more thoroughly then.

iirc it was at the point the loom doubles back on itself around where the spurs come out for the heated grips and clock. i think it had been strapped too tight to the frame