Will have a look after doing comp test. Thanks
still running rough...
- Thread starter steadysteve
- Start date
Unlikely!
There are two hall sensors on the ignition trigger.
One provides the pulse for the spark, the other the pulse for the injector (fuel).
It's a simple system and does not differentiate between left and right, therefore if one side is working OK then the ignition trigger (Hall sensors) is working correctly.
Ian
Right then, I have done a compression test-- the left one( the one that seems okay..) is showing 110psi, the right one is at 120psi.
Mr. Haynes classes readings below 125 psi as `poor`. Whaddya reckon chaps?
After running it to get the engine up to temperature the left plug,( the good one) came out sooty but dry, the right one was wet and clean.
I initially thought the right pot was doing some firing but perhaps the heat in the pipe was heat transfer through the pipe that runs left to right because the plug looks like it hasn`t seen any combustion at all.
Do ignition coils pack in completely when they fail or is it possible for it to be faulty on one side only?
Thanks in advance...
Mr. Haynes classes readings below 125 psi as `poor`. Whaddya reckon chaps?
After running it to get the engine up to temperature the left plug,( the good one) came out sooty but dry, the right one was wet and clean.
I initially thought the right pot was doing some firing but perhaps the heat in the pipe was heat transfer through the pipe that runs left to right because the plug looks like it hasn`t seen any combustion at all.
Do ignition coils pack in completely when they fail or is it possible for it to be faulty on one side only?
Thanks in advance...
When you swapped the plug leads over, did you swap them over at the coil as well as the spark plug, because there is no need to. The coil fires both plugs together at the same time.
Leave the coil end alone, and just swap the leads over at the spark plug end. See if the fault transfers, you may have a faulty coil.
Ian
PS
It's easier to leave the spark plug ends alone, and just swap the leads at the coil. Does the same thing.
Leave the coil end alone, and just swap the leads over at the spark plug end. See if the fault transfers, you may have a faulty coil.
Ian
PS
It's easier to leave the spark plug ends alone, and just swap the leads at the coil. Does the same thing.
Thanks Ian, i Didnt know that so swapped them over at both ends. Will give that a go tomorrow, I am thinking its a coil issue and was hoping someone would say the same..
I am hoping the compression is okay to leave. Do you think those readings are okay-ish?
mouthfulloflake
Registered user
you have an ignition problem on the right cylinder.
It has sufficient compression,and it has fuel according to your trouble shooting thus far.
could be that HT wire is bad/weak, that spark plug, or that ignition coil terminal.
It has sufficient compression,and it has fuel according to your trouble shooting thus far.
could be that HT wire is bad/weak, that spark plug, or that ignition coil terminal.
I dont think its the right side HT lead because the problem didnt swap side when I changed the leads around. I didnt realise the coil fires both plugs at the same time so swapped them over completely, rather than just swapping the connectors at the coil end.
The plugs are brand new but a different make to the ones specified in the book. Waiting for the supplier(sherlocks) to confirm they are compatible.
Assuming the plugs are compatible I think its probably coil related-- possibly the coil terminal as you say.
Didnt get chance to do any tinkering yesterday and unlikely today also.
Thanks.
Update..
Supplier has confirmed the spark plugs are the correct ones. I even put the old ones back in just to check if it made any difference- it didn`t.
I have swapped the HT leads at the coil end only-- this made no difference. Problem is still on the rhs.
Swapped the injectors left to right and right to left-- no difference, the problem is still on the rhs.
I have been doing a bit of research on the hall sensor to find out what it does and how to replace it etc .There is a useful tutorial from an american source that gives a list of symptoms, none of which apply to this case-- as Steptoe says they sometimes plays silly buggers when hot but mine is running rough from cold and still rough after a minute or two when you would expect it to tick over without help from the fast idle lever.
Also loosened the tps mounting screws to see if that altered anything. It made a noticeable difference so I assume the tps is doing something at least.
Any more ideas appreciated .... thanks
Supplier has confirmed the spark plugs are the correct ones. I even put the old ones back in just to check if it made any difference- it didn`t.
I have swapped the HT leads at the coil end only-- this made no difference. Problem is still on the rhs.
Swapped the injectors left to right and right to left-- no difference, the problem is still on the rhs.
I have been doing a bit of research on the hall sensor to find out what it does and how to replace it etc .There is a useful tutorial from an american source that gives a list of symptoms, none of which apply to this case-- as Steptoe says they sometimes plays silly buggers when hot but mine is running rough from cold and still rough after a minute or two when you would expect it to tick over without help from the fast idle lever.
Also loosened the tps mounting screws to see if that altered anything. It made a noticeable difference so I assume the tps is doing something at least.
Any more ideas appreciated .... thanks
Stop chasing your own tail
Do a search on here or elsewhere and set the tps properly, if all looks good then you can eliminate it!
mouthfulloflake
Registered user
what is your battery voltage?
I wonder, if you were to put good clean power to the coil via a jumper wire straight from the battery, and bypass the way it is normally fed if you could get a better fat blue spark.
I think it is a green wire, fed from the abs relay and about 5 other safety switches..
I wonder, if you were to put good clean power to the coil via a jumper wire straight from the battery, and bypass the way it is normally fed if you could get a better fat blue spark.
I think it is a green wire, fed from the abs relay and about 5 other safety switches..
Stop chasing your own tail
Do a search on here or elsewhere and set the tps properly, if all looks good then you can eliminate it!
Cheers Timolgra, will do the tps next. Just trying all the possibilities......
Reading back through your posts, this does appear to be a conundrum.
Are you sure your valve clearances are correct and that you made the adjustments correctly with the piston at the top of it's stroke, both the valves closed and the rockers loose.
If you had to make large adjustments, particularly on the side that is giving you a problem, then that might point to your problem.
Probably clutching at straws here, but think back over what you did during the service, large adjustments anywhere may point you towards your problem.
Ian
Are you sure your valve clearances are correct and that you made the adjustments correctly with the piston at the top of it's stroke, both the valves closed and the rockers loose.
If you had to make large adjustments, particularly on the side that is giving you a problem, then that might point to your problem.
Probably clutching at straws here, but think back over what you did during the service, large adjustments anywhere may point you towards your problem.
Ian
Morning Ian, I only had to alter 3 of the valve clearances- none of them were miles out, the endfloats were towards the top of the range but not exceeding the maximum.
I will check them again but it was running rough before anyway. Each change and swapping of components has been done individually , rather than swapping four or five things at once and not knowing what made the difference but nothing has affected the rhs.
The only thing it does do is cough or give a slight backfire when reconnecting the rhs injector wiring to the injector, but it doesn`run any smoother after that.
The fact that the comp test showed them to be roughly equal left to right, although on the low side, made me think it was healthy enough for an 86k engine.
Might get a few hours at it today, its been limited to the odd hour here and there between shifts etc hence all the updates and questions ...
Thanks.
Strange one this.
We had a guy on the S10 Forum with a very similar scenario. Bike running very rough, mainly on one pot. He went through similar angst, particularly as the dead cylinder is not quite so obvious on a parallel twin (just check header temp differences with a laser thermometer). When he serviced the bike, he had balanced the throttle bodies & found them way out. He checked the TPS & everything the OP is looking at here.
The problem turned out to be microscopic cracks in the TB vac caps & a sticking exhaust valve. Obvious when he removed the headers & watched the action in the exhaust ports & should have been picked up earlier from valve noise. Here though, everything appears to point towards a weak spark, hence coil packs, leads, plugs/caps, hall sensor etc., but we seem to be running out of ideas unless we can find someone willing to swop known good components across from a donor bike.
Just a thought. Knowing the OP purchased the bike with this condition largely extant, can the previous owner shed any light on what work/service/investigation had been carried out before sale that might help pinpoint the issue. Did it just occur suddenly, or was it progressive. Did it follow service or other work &, if so, what precisely?
We had a guy on the S10 Forum with a very similar scenario. Bike running very rough, mainly on one pot. He went through similar angst, particularly as the dead cylinder is not quite so obvious on a parallel twin (just check header temp differences with a laser thermometer). When he serviced the bike, he had balanced the throttle bodies & found them way out. He checked the TPS & everything the OP is looking at here.
The problem turned out to be microscopic cracks in the TB vac caps & a sticking exhaust valve. Obvious when he removed the headers & watched the action in the exhaust ports & should have been picked up earlier from valve noise. Here though, everything appears to point towards a weak spark, hence coil packs, leads, plugs/caps, hall sensor etc., but we seem to be running out of ideas unless we can find someone willing to swop known good components across from a donor bike.
Just a thought. Knowing the OP purchased the bike with this condition largely extant, can the previous owner shed any light on what work/service/investigation had been carried out before sale that might help pinpoint the issue. Did it just occur suddenly, or was it progressive. Did it follow service or other work &, if so, what precisely?
Check the resistance across the terminals on the fuel injector. They should be very similar, if there's a difference that could well be your problem.
Thanks steptoe-- checked both injectors for resistance and both show 16 ohms, which as far as I can tell after a bit of research is okay
Primary winding resistance is a big fat zero, should be 0.5 ohms.
Resistance across the secondary winding is 7.1K-ohms, it should be 7.5 K-ohms.
TPS set to 0.37 volts across connections 1and 4.
Going to order a new coil and will update thread when it is fitted.
Thanks all.
Fitted a coil today and it seems to be okay, firing on both cylinders although it took. a few minutes for number 2 to wake up...
Quite a few of the multi pin connectors were a bit suspect inside as well- not corroded as such, but a bit green and dull on a lot of the pins. Disconnected all the ones that are under the tank plus any others I could find. Strangely all the ones with the tiny pins, usially two or three connections, were shiny and in perfect condition, it wad just the bigger ones that were dodgy. Thanks timolgra for the advice to check these
Also balanced the TB`s again. Its a bit smoky until warm- a bit worn somewhere which would tie in with the low compression readings.
Thanks to all who posted advice etc.
Quite a few of the multi pin connectors were a bit suspect inside as well- not corroded as such, but a bit green and dull on a lot of the pins. Disconnected all the ones that are under the tank plus any others I could find. Strangely all the ones with the tiny pins, usially two or three connections, were shiny and in perfect condition, it wad just the bigger ones that were dodgy. Thanks timolgra for the advice to check these
Also balanced the TB`s again. Its a bit smoky until warm- a bit worn somewhere which would tie in with the low compression readings.
Thanks to all who posted advice etc.
Hi just been reading your symptoms and addvice because i have the same issues on my 97 1100gs 970000 . I also swapped the coil leads around at the coil end . And no change .
I have so far . ... new air filter and plugs . Valve clearance. check cable routing. New throttle body bearings. Injectors serviced Contact cleaner on loads of "contacts", zero is zero . Lookd at the hsll sensor ...smells ok
.
I did notice i had been ridding it with out the throttle body stop screw on the rhs so thought i might have compensated the fuel mixture? Still bangin my head on the tank attempting to get my bike goin ...any ideas ?
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I have so far . ... new air filter and plugs . Valve clearance. check cable routing. New throttle body bearings. Injectors serviced Contact cleaner on loads of "contacts", zero is zero . Lookd at the hsll sensor ...smells ok
.I did notice i had been ridding it with out the throttle body stop screw on the rhs so thought i might have compensated the fuel mixture? Still bangin my head on the tank attempting to get my bike goin ...any ideas ?
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
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