Technical Source - theory

[jnrobert]

For those that are interested in this stuff, the following link is to Tony Foale who has written a good book on motorcycle design and theory. Worth a look and get the book if you want a real education.

http://www.tonyfoale.com/

 

[littleredrooster]

Panzer Patrol used to race a Foale-framed TZ350 (that gives away his age!): a more evil-handling, badly designed, badly made piece of crap I've yet to come across (I used to help with the spanners).

Any further comments, Panzer? Good laxative, wasn't it!!

 

[jnrobert]

LOL - must be why Foale moved to Spain Some local Bay Area sport riders group is paying for him to come over and give a lecture series. If you can tell me more about how bad his frame was I will bring it up with him at the meeting.

 

[Panzer Patrol]

RE: Tony Foale:

The best cure for constipation I have ever ridden. I must have been completely barking to persevere with that bloody thing, it had a mind of its own. I tried bloody hard but couldnt get it to work. If its any consolation, which it isnt I suppose, it looked the biz. It should have worked.

So rating Mr Foales efforts from a user perspective, on a score of 1-10 it rates about minus -5.

I am sure this is my actual bike even though the legend says otherwise. The bits fitted are identical, wheels etc.

There should be an image here, but there probably isnt. Incompetence rules OK

 

[Panzer Patrol]

Hi JN,

Just read your post properly, I have no doubt that Tony Foale has a tremendous amount of knowledge in frame theory and design. However, as I currently work in a Business School, I am well aware of the difference between what some theoreticians pontificate and what is actual practice.

As you can see in the above picture, the engine is slung in a spine frame. The front down-tubes are bolted on just under the steering head with one through bolt. The engine is then mounted at the front with the two original Yamaha mountings. (hold that thought) The engine is fixed at the rear mount with one through bolt.

The original Yamaha also had a head steady mount. Crucially, the Tony Foale DIDN’T. This meant that under acceleration, dependant on crank rotation, the engine tries to move. In the Tzeds case this was upwards. In the genuine Yamaha frame the head steady stopped this movement. No head steady meant that, in the Tony Foale frame, the engine tried to lift under the torque reaction from racing acceleration. When this happened, the front down-tube mounts (remember them) would snap off. Which happened…… the only thing stopping the engine from pivoting around the rear mount and falling on the floor was the fairing belly pan. Eeek.

I had little option but to remove one of the front engine bolts and allow the engine to pivot. I know…. I was quite insane in those days. So there I am trying to race this bike and be competitive, when every time I accelerate the engine is jumping about underneath me. I eventually perfected a technique of slamming the power on so hard exiting a corner that the engine would jump up and hit the underside of the spine. This would then make the engine stable. Then I could try and get on with cornering the damn thing.

Damned exciting I tell you. Don’t ask me what it did under braking. That’s another ten pages worth.

 

[jnrobert]

Holy cow. That was an hilariously terrifying account. And you're still alive? I am going to print that photo and ask him how he justifies it!

 

[Panzer Patrol]

Hi JN, for further info:
The bike in question was built by Fowlers Motorcycles for Wayne Dynam (appologies for spelling). During practice, Wayne did the first 100mph lap in the Manx GP when the bike was brand new (1975/76 I think). Wayne managed only a few miles during the race when the chain jumped off. It could have been one of those racing things, but in hindsight (always a comfortable office) It was probably because the damn frame flexed so much on bumpy tracks.

I bought it third hand from another Welshman, who had decided to retire from racing (after riding that I,m not bloody suprised). You couldnt buy a TZ for love nor money in the UK in those days, so I spent my hard-earned on that heap of snot.

The bike was finished in Yellow and Green. The only pictures I have of the bike are in black and white. The best one is of me crashing the f***ing thing at the Mere Hairpin at the Scarborough International.
I rest my case

 

[cookie]

my mate built one like this only with a GS750 suzuki engine way back when.

it seemed to handle ok when i borrowed it for a week, but the engine sat very high so C of G was a bit sus.

ps. i wired it for him. all in pink PTFE wire with numbers on. i'd really like to apologise to whoever bought it & tried to understand what i'd done, even though it all worked. i used factory codes from then on

 

[littleredrooster]

Go on, Panzer - cut the diplomatic talk and tell us what it was really like!!!!