I've no idea, but Rasher states his Yam dealer charges £60 per hour, but we don't know if that includes VAT or not. Some of the dealers I got quotes from were in the region of £69-70, which is 15% ish higher than Rasher's Yam dealer.
Tenere and Stelvio test rides
- Thread starter Rasher
- Start date
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2791992&postcount=1
'obscene' stands out in this post ...and is the sort of word frequently used in sentences containing BMW dealer and service
'obscene' stands out in this post ...and is the sort of word frequently used in sentences containing BMW dealer and service
I am not trying to debate BMW servicing here, I think it is expensive and more so than the Jap dealers near me, they also have two schedules which further adds costs and final drives cost about 10 times more than C&S kits and certainly do not last ten times longer.
Nobody is ever going to convince me BMW servicing is cheap, and although some are less expensive than others my local dealer wanted £400 for a 12k + annual which is bloody extortionate and leaves me with a 140 mile round trip to another dealer (that is merely expensive)
Add in that I do about 5k per year and I have an "odd" schedule that will involve @7 services over four years, 3 lots of @£300 (for the miles service) and 4 lots of £150 for the annuals and I have a £1500 bill even if the FD does not explode, and if I want to have that covered I need to spend another £1400 on warranties.
The Yamaha is also every 6k, but no double service schedule so I am down to 1 service per year and the valves only need doing every 24k so I reckon well under £1,000 for the four services, less if I use local independant no more than 2 miles from my door, and I would happily do the basics myself and would only use the dealer for every 4th service as I do not have valves to adjust and throttle bodies to setup and all that hoo-har that comes with servcing the BMW yourself.
Nobody is ever going to convince me BMW servicing is cheap, and although some are less expensive than others my local dealer wanted £400 for a 12k + annual which is bloody extortionate and leaves me with a 140 mile round trip to another dealer (that is merely expensive)
Add in that I do about 5k per year and I have an "odd" schedule that will involve @7 services over four years, 3 lots of @£300 (for the miles service) and 4 lots of £150 for the annuals and I have a £1500 bill even if the FD does not explode, and if I want to have that covered I need to spend another £1400 on warranties.
The Yamaha is also every 6k, but no double service schedule so I am down to 1 service per year and the valves only need doing every 24k so I reckon well under £1,000 for the four services, less if I use local independant no more than 2 miles from my door, and I would happily do the basics myself and would only use the dealer for every 4th service as I do not have valves to adjust and throttle bodies to setup and all that hoo-har that comes with servcing the BMW yourself.
Rasher, maybe you should just forget about warranties and service costs and do it yourself? Don't be rash and discount it immediately.... your bike seems to be a reliable one and you will save a load of dosh. The servicing is quite straightforward if you have reasonable skills and experience. As you have mentioned you're happy to do the basics on a Yamaha so why not the Beemer? You can get it done in less time than you are quoting to get the bike between dealers, you will learn more about your bike and have a great deal of confidence in that you can ,finally be sure, everything that should be done, is done.
If you look at the servicing schedule which is the same as your dealer would do, the vast majority of items simply cover checking to see things work OK. Outside of that it's fluid changes (easy), valve clearances (easy) and throttle body balances (easy with a set of guages). Brake fluid can be done every two years after the first change...and guess what...it's pretty easy to do. Do the next service yourself and from the money you save buy a set of vacume guages and a GS911 if you want. The latter can be sold when you sell the bike and will recoup a lot of the outlay simply doing that. You will need a few additions to the toolbox...probably a plug wrench and a coil stick removing tool (buy a metal not plastic one) but nothing that costly.
just what i was thinking, but then he wouldn't have the warranty he needs so he doesn't have to worry about all those expensive bits breaking.
...but then he worries anyway
it's tricky when you're irrational.
just what i was thinking, but then he wouldn't have the warranty he needs so he doesn't have to worry about all those expensive bits breaking.
...but then he worries anyway
it's tricky when you're irrational.
Agreed, but then, in all probability, the cost of the warranty and the dealer services will be greater than the "possible" cost of anything breaking. The warranty insurers, BMW and dealers all have to make a profit to survive, so it's inherent in all the calculations that the cost of taking out a warranty and paying dealer servicing to go with it, must be greater than the average cost of repairs as experienced historically by the warranty cover.
The risk you always take with these things is if you are going to be one of the "unlucky" ones. I think Rasher is of the view that he must be one of the "unlucky" ones but cannot overcome the associated problem of having to pay lots of money to offset that view.
At some point you have to make a decision for your own circumstances and then live with that decision and just get on with it.
I bought a Stelvio new in May2009, it's now done 10,000 miles, it has never broke down or failed to start. I think modern Moto Guzzis are at least as reliable as any BMW these days. I traded my GS1150 for the Stelvio, the GS was a great bike but after 30,000 miles and six years I fancied a change and the GS1200 just didn't feel right for me, so I decided to scratch the Guzzi itch I'd had for a few years.
The negative bits are the speedo sensor failed in heavy rain during the first few hundred miles, that was fixed at first service. The bike developed a slight misfire which was sorted by fitting NGK plug caps. The heated grips are awkward to use and lack the heat of the BMW eqivalents but I can live with that.
The bike is plenty fast enough for me, the handling is fine once you've played about with the suspension settings. I find the Brembo brakes very effective with plenty of feel, comfort is excellent, the motor has plenty of torque and the bike has character. I have recently serviced it now that the warranty has expired and found it as easy to do as my old GS.
Fuel consumption seems to be regularly around 45mpg which gives a full to empty range of about 180 miles-a couple of extra litres would be handy but the range hasn't proved to be a problem yet, although I do carry a spare litre of juice in the tool tube.
I have two mates who have since bought Stelvios having owned GSes, they too are very happy owners and like the fact that the bike isn't as common as the GS. One of those bikes sits outside my mates flat uncovered and in the 20months he's owned it, the Stelvio has been totally reliable, despite the cold scottish winters it's been subjected to.
The negative bits are the speedo sensor failed in heavy rain during the first few hundred miles, that was fixed at first service. The bike developed a slight misfire which was sorted by fitting NGK plug caps. The heated grips are awkward to use and lack the heat of the BMW eqivalents but I can live with that.
The bike is plenty fast enough for me, the handling is fine once you've played about with the suspension settings. I find the Brembo brakes very effective with plenty of feel, comfort is excellent, the motor has plenty of torque and the bike has character. I have recently serviced it now that the warranty has expired and found it as easy to do as my old GS.
Fuel consumption seems to be regularly around 45mpg which gives a full to empty range of about 180 miles-a couple of extra litres would be handy but the range hasn't proved to be a problem yet, although I do carry a spare litre of juice in the tool tube.
I have two mates who have since bought Stelvios having owned GSes, they too are very happy owners and like the fact that the bike isn't as common as the GS. One of those bikes sits outside my mates flat uncovered and in the 20months he's owned it, the Stelvio has been totally reliable, despite the cold scottish winters it's been subjected to.
Some good stuff about servicing here, and yes VAT is irrelevant, I was talking prices I pay, Mr VAT man is not gonna give me the 20% back from the BMW dealer, or the Yam dealer, £60 is still less than £90 regardless of VAT component. The £225 quote was from a dealer with an advertised £69 per hour so assuming they are charging me 2 hours then the parts may be £87 - still the local dealers £400 weighs in at £160 an hour (or their mechanics are just bloody slow workers)
I suppose I could try my own servicing, especially if I want to keep it long term, for short term ownership I reckon the BMW stamp will help with selling it, I have to do this service at a BMW dealer to keep up warranty.
I will try to sell the bike before the next service is due - my original plan was to buy a 2 year old GS and if I liked it a lot get the later model (DOHC) or even a GSA after a year or two. My impression is that FD's fail a lot, few seem to last past 40k, many crap out far earlier, any work I cannot do myself is going to be prohibitively expensive and involve travelling a long way to get it done. I have at least 3 Yamaha dealers within 30 miles and my local indie is cheap (£48 hour inc. VAT) and willing to work on the Yamaha.
The Stelvio is a bit more concerning on service as dealers are more limited and my local indie will give the thing a wide berth, but I can't see reliability being worse than a BMW, nor servicing more expensive.
My OP was to do with riding the other bikes and I would be most interested in what others who have moved to or from these bikes have to say about them, the last post was of great interest - thanks fatal.
I know many here are huge fans of BMW and will never except they have any faults and would happily buy an FD a week if that is what BMW ownership cost, for the other less fanatical owners why not grab a test ride on something else, you may be surprised to learn most motorcycles are good fun and those I tried last weekend were both great machines (especially if you struggle to get your leg over
)
I suppose I could try my own servicing, especially if I want to keep it long term, for short term ownership I reckon the BMW stamp will help with selling it, I have to do this service at a BMW dealer to keep up warranty.
I will try to sell the bike before the next service is due - my original plan was to buy a 2 year old GS and if I liked it a lot get the later model (DOHC) or even a GSA after a year or two. My impression is that FD's fail a lot, few seem to last past 40k, many crap out far earlier, any work I cannot do myself is going to be prohibitively expensive and involve travelling a long way to get it done. I have at least 3 Yamaha dealers within 30 miles and my local indie is cheap (£48 hour inc. VAT) and willing to work on the Yamaha.
The Stelvio is a bit more concerning on service as dealers are more limited and my local indie will give the thing a wide berth, but I can't see reliability being worse than a BMW, nor servicing more expensive.
My OP was to do with riding the other bikes and I would be most interested in what others who have moved to or from these bikes have to say about them, the last post was of great interest - thanks fatal.
I know many here are huge fans of BMW and will never except they have any faults and would happily buy an FD a week if that is what BMW ownership cost, for the other less fanatical owners why not grab a test ride on something else, you may be surprised to learn most motorcycles are good fun and those I tried last weekend were both great machines (especially if you struggle to get your leg over
)
Presumably your local dealer is North Oxford? They quoted me £300 for the 12k service including gearbox oil, brake fluid change and final drive oil change just now, with a labour rate of £73 per hour + VAT.
Quoted me "about £400" for 12k +annual, but without FD oil or brake fluid as they were done last October by supplying dealer.
Looks like your getting a load more work done for a lot less cash, I am paying £285 for my service next week and that does not include FD oil or brake fluid
when I test rode a bike there they gave prices of about £220 for most services (with the exception being the 24k one which they told me was alot more) but it seems they make up service prices as they go along
The point about the annual element of the services is they are needed as follows:-
Brake fluid - change after one year then every two years
Final drive - change at 600 miles then every 12000 miles or two years
Gearbox oil - change at 12000 miles or every two years
So you wouldn't have the annual service at 5000 miles then go back again at 6000 miles, you would combine the two, and only have the mileage service + the annual elements that are needed. Where you have got the idea that you need the annual AND the mileage services as seperate services is beyond me because that is not how it has to work.
So over your four years that would be four services, not seven.
Brake fluid - change after one year then every two years
Final drive - change at 600 miles then every 12000 miles or two years
Gearbox oil - change at 12000 miles or every two years
So you wouldn't have the annual service at 5000 miles then go back again at 6000 miles, you would combine the two, and only have the mileage service + the annual elements that are needed. Where you have got the idea that you need the annual AND the mileage services as seperate services is beyond me because that is not how it has to work.
So over your four years that would be four services, not seven.
Quoted me "about £400" for 12k +annual, but without FD oil or brake fluid as they were done last October by supplying dealer.
Looks like your getting a load more work done for a lot less cash, I am paying £285 for my service next week and that does not include FD oil or brake fluid
when I test rode a bike there they gave prices of about £220 for most services (with the exception being the 24k one which they told me was alot more) but it seems they make up service prices as they go along
Rasher, I don't know why you keep beating yourself up with dealers because you know you'd be far better off ditching that warranty and get your bike serviced by Steptoe or ABW. You know everything would be done correctly and you wouldn't ripped off. Couple that with a breakdown recovery cover and you are quids in.
This way, if your worst fears over the FD come true, you get the bike brought home and then you get a rebuild for around £300 and probably quicker than BMW finding a replacement
He's right you know
Tell the dealer to feck himself about the annual as well as your standard service and get it done every 6k if you think the stamp is that important.Personally, FSH means feck all and in my truck experience, it de value's teh vehicle
I'd far rather buy a used bke with Steptoe's little stamp in itI agree, would rather get a decent service done once per year, regardless of if it after 3k, 4k, 5k or 6k - just do the job properly the once each spring. Much as I would trust Steptoe to do the job properly it is still a long way to go for servicing, an affordable dealer on the doorstep is always handy.
Still hanker after a change after next summer and will be looking at Stelvio's and Tenere's, and if 2010 / 2011 models are looking more reliable than earlier models then maybe another GS - I know the fuel gauges are shite, but I do not think anyone has had the latest type FD fail.
I can save £350 by not renewing the warranty and if I trade in before 18k another £300 - £400 for BMW servicing and trade the bike in with full BMW History.
I will have about £3k plus my bike (which will be 4 years old next summer) to try and get a 2 year old low mileage replacement.
I think the Yamaha's will depreciate badly enough to be in range, as will Stelvio's as they are quite cheap when new, I think going from a 4 year old GS to a 2 year old one would require too much cash, especially if I wanted to "upgrade" to an Adventure.
Still hanker after a change after next summer and will be looking at Stelvio's and Tenere's, and if 2010 / 2011 models are looking more reliable than earlier models then maybe another GS - I know the fuel gauges are shite, but I do not think anyone has had the latest type FD fail.
I can save £350 by not renewing the warranty and if I trade in before 18k another £300 - £400 for BMW servicing and trade the bike in with full BMW History.
I will have about £3k plus my bike (which will be 4 years old next summer) to try and get a 2 year old low mileage replacement.
I think the Yamaha's will depreciate badly enough to be in range, as will Stelvio's as they are quite cheap when new, I think going from a 4 year old GS to a 2 year old one would require too much cash, especially if I wanted to "upgrade" to an Adventure.
Another servicing option is Steve Grover aka Motoscot, who is in Caddington, just outside Luton. He is a BMW master technician ( and there are not many who reach that level, just ask Skywalker of this parish, who has achieved that status) and what he doesn't know isn't worth bothering about. He has a GS911 so he can do all the proper diagnostic stuff and he has an excellent workshop.
You do have to plan ahead though as he is very popular, and needs about 5-6 weeks notice. And he only charges £40 an hour too. I'm not sure if he has got to VAT registration levels yet so that may be the actual charge.
According to Google maps the direct route is only 43 miles.
You do have to plan ahead though as he is very popular, and needs about 5-6 weeks notice. And he only charges £40 an hour too. I'm not sure if he has got to VAT registration levels yet so that may be the actual charge.
According to Google maps the direct route is only 43 miles.
buy a manual and do it yourself
Changing the fluids and filters on these bikes is dead easy, the spark plugs are accessible and the screw and locknut tappet adjustment is fairly simple, balancing the throttle bodies is a bit more complicated, but even an old duffer like me did it on my GS1150. Save yourself a couple of hundred quid and use the money saved for a weekend away.
If for some reason the bike runs a bit rough you can always take it to the dealer to run through the diagnostics and pay them to set it up, but at least your'e not paying someone to do the easy bits.
Changing the fluids and filters on these bikes is dead easy, the spark plugs are accessible and the screw and locknut tappet adjustment is fairly simple, balancing the throttle bodies is a bit more complicated, but even an old duffer like me did it on my GS1150. Save yourself a couple of hundred quid and use the money saved for a weekend away.
If for some reason the bike runs a bit rough you can always take it to the dealer to run through the diagnostics and pay them to set it up, but at least your'e not paying someone to do the easy bits.
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