The difference in routing algorithms

[John Armstrong]

I tried Thirsk to Hovingham, then onto Hutton-le-Hole on my XT2.

It also likes the A170, and only at level 4 of the adventurous setting was any difference made to the routing between Thirsk and Hovingham, and it was a very windy route heading south first and took over an hour.
Hovingham to Hutton-le-Hole, nothing, not even "shortest" budged it from going via Helmsley, until I added a via point at Nunnington.

Tried Basecamp and it also like the A170, so would guess that the 590 and it's predecessors would also for the part to Hovingham. To Hutton-le-Hole it goes cross country and this routing is two minutes quicker than the Helmsley version, according to Basecamp. The profile I used is for "faster" routing in Basecamp.

The cynic in me says that the "faster" roads algorithm seems to be causing problems in the adventurous settings, and is therefore causing routing that doesn't follow the logic of the 590 and it's predecessors. Which is a shame.

 

[Wapping]

I guess the XT2 (I have never touched one) might well do several things differently than the XT and / or its older siblings.

My XT will probably be the last Garmin device I buy. Not because I think it’s a bad device per se, but rather because (for me at least) MyRoute, used to create bespoke routes (which I run on my XT) and then displayed separately on my sacrificial phone, has become so good. That said, I’ll keep my XT, simply because it does some things better than the phone / MyRoute combination.

But we digress.

Hopefully my little experiment into the differential A to B routing thrown up by assorted algorithms, has been of some interest.

 

[ikkje]

And in my experience, keeping your Garmin as a back up is always sensible. I’ve now got to the point where I’d never fully trust any single platform on a longer trip. The other reason I keep the XT on, is that the Beeline that I’ve been using more and more, has very little detail and whilst that works for the actual job of navigating, it’s sometimes useful to see more of what’s around you. Next I’m going to try your suggestion of using a sacrificial phone as I do like MyRoute.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

JB’s route starts on the Market Square in Thirsk, finishing in Hovingham at the Bakery cafe:

A. Google

Three routes, of which the possibly most scenic is 18 miles in 31 minutes

View attachment 453029

B. Kurviger

Using the moderately twisty algorithm, it offers up:

19.95 miles in 35 minutes

View attachment 453031

C. MyRoute

Using the ‘avoid highways’ algorithm, it offered up:

18.94 miles

29 minutes

View attachment 453042

D. XT

Setting fastest time.

It offered up:

19 miles

29 minutes

View attachment 453046

I then selected the XT’s ‘Adventurous Routing’ and set it to maximum:

19 miles

28 minutes

View attachment 453048

In short it made no appreciable difference.

I then shaped the route, using the XT’s ability to shape routes.

18 miles

30 minutes

View attachment 453056

Conclusions:

1. I cannot definitively say why the XT didn’t offer up a more ‘adventurous’ route.

2. My guess (and this is a real guess) is that the algorithm struggles over comparatively short distances.

3. Why do I guess this? Because we saw that the XT offered up very different routes between Chelmsford and Norwich, but that is over 80 miles.

4. Shaping the route within the XT was easy.

Route A was the one I had in my head and the one that offers a good, but relatively scenic and interesting motorcycle ride, on a fairly direct course

Good to see Google offered up that option (maybe I need to switch to Chigee and use CarPlay)

I found it bizarre that XT would send me along A roads to the destination when I had shortest route/avoid motorway and max adventurous routing selected, before I calculated the route on the unit in the Market Square

I set off on Route A and ignored Garmin’s effort and all along the 19 mile cross country route, it was recalculating at every end and turn, trying to send me back to the A170 and at one point it actually sent me backwards to pick up the A170 and increased the journey up to 24 miles (despite the preset parameters already mentioned) - this is very bizarre!! (and wouldn’t happen on my 2610 as it has the ability to make avoidances that are totally customisable, plus a far better routing algorithm)

It wasn’t until the far side of Yearsley that the XT caught up, in the last 2-3 miles and actually used the Route A to take me directly to Hovingham

This….i believe makes the routing algorithm flawed and my conclusions that it’s a car GPS, made waterproof and lightly modified for motorcycle usage

Earlier Garmin GPS like the 550 and 2610 are much better motorcycle GPS (albeit dated unless you use current OSM mapping) in their raw state

You shouldn’t need to use MRA or Kurviger to augment the Garmin XT shortfalls

Note to self - I need to be able to learn to modify the XT routes to add shaping points to get more out of the unit

I have no interest in purchasing MRA or Kurviger or learning how to use it

 

[Wapping]

Note to self - I need to be able to learn to modify the XT routes to add shaping points to get more out of the unit

I have no interest in purchasing MRA or Kurviger or learning h

Point 1, that’s a good idea.

Point 2, that’s a matter of choice, as with most things. That said, Kurviger is free and reasonably easy to get into an XT. Is it perfect? No. MyRoute is very good for creating bespoke routes of any length and, again, easy enough to transfer into an XT. The free version is arguably not at all bad.



PS Tap around in the device, to learn how to shape routes. You can’t break it. I’d start with the Thirsk to Hovingham route. Why? Because you are familiar with it. It doesn’t take much to learn the method. I believe Wessie creates a lot of his quite complex routes this way.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I tried Thirsk to Hovingham, then onto Hutton-le-Hole on my XT2.

It also likes the A170, and only at level 4 of the adventurous setting was any difference made to the routing between Thirsk and Hovingham, and it was a very windy route heading south first and took over an hour.
Hovingham to Hutton-le-Hole, nothing, not even "shortest" budged it from going via Helmsley, until I added a via point at Nunnington.

Tried Basecamp and it also like the A170, so would guess that the 590 and it's predecessors would also for the part to Hovingham. To Hutton-le-Hole it goes cross country and this routing is two minutes quicker than the Helmsley version, according to Basecamp. The profile I used is for "faster" routing in Basecamp.

The cynic in me says that the "faster" roads algorithm seems to be causing problems in the adventurous settings, and is therefore causing routing that doesn't follow the logic of the 590 and it's predecessors. Which is a shame.

Expertly summed up and exactly what the XT did from Hovingham to Hutton Le Hole too (tried to take me via Helmsley too) and I ignored it and cut the corner off via Nunnington

I agree with you observations that the flaw is the ‘fastest roads’ usage, compared to earlier Garmin’s in the algorithm of route designation

 

[ikkje]

JB - Respect that you have no wish to purchase / learn how to use either Kurviger or MyRoute, but the latter is soooo much easier to use than the XT and the latest Beta release of the MyRoute nav app (5.0.0) looks excellent. I’ve not used it yet, but will do to travel back from Brecon tomorrow. No idea when it will be released, but I’ll show you it when we meet on the 29th.

 

[Wapping]

No idea when it will be released

It’s usually around a couple of months, between the beta launch and going live.

I agree, it’s quite tidy.

But we digress.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

JB - Respect that you have no wish to purchase / learn how to use either Kurviger or MyRoute, but the latter is soooo much easier to use than the XT and the latest Beta release of the MyRoute nav app (5.0.0) looks excellent. I’ve not used it yet, but will do to travel back from Brecon tomorrow. No idea when it will be released, but I’ll show you it when we meet on the 29th.

Look forward to you demonstrating it to me on the 29/10
Beeline has piqued my interest
Never say never - about MRA

 

[glenn2926]

Route A was the one I had in my head and the one that offers a good, but relatively scenic and interesting motorcycle ride, on a fairly direct course

Good to see Google offered up that option (maybe I need to switch to Chigee and use CarPlay)

I found it bizarre that XT would send me along A roads to the destination when I had shortest route/avoid motorway and max adventurous routing selected, before I calculated the route on the unit in the Market Square

I set off on Route A and ignored Garmin’s effort and all along the 19 mile cross country route, it was recalculating at every end and turn, trying to send me back to the A170 and at one point it actually sent me backwards to pick up the A170 and increased the journey up to 24 miles (despite the preset parameters already mentioned) - this is very bizarre!! (and wouldn’t happen on my 2610 as it has the ability to make avoidances that are totally customisable, plus a far better routing algorithm)

It wasn’t until the far side of Yearsley that the XT caught up, in the last 2-3 miles and actually used the Route A to take me directly to Hovingham

This….i believe makes the routing algorithm flawed and my conclusions that it’s a car GPS, made waterproof and lightly modified for motorcycle usage

Earlier Garmin GPS like the 550 and 2610 are much better motorcycle GPS (albeit dated unless you use current OSM mapping) in their raw state

You shouldn’t need to use MRA or Kurviger to augment the Garmin XT shortfalls

Note to self - I need to be able to learn to modify the XT routes to add shaping points to get more out of the unit

I have no interest in purchasing MRA or Kurviger or learning how to use it

These XT and the later XT2 Garmin devices do seem to create a lot of problems. My very old Zumo 660 just continues to work exactly as it should. I do seem to use it in a very different way to some people though. I don’t just ask the sat nav to get me from A to B. I plot routes on Basecamp and then send them to the Zumo. That way it takes me on the route I want use.
I have tried the my route app and it just seemed much more difficult than Basecamp, nowhere near as user friendly.
I have also tried google maps but that is pretty useless for plotting routes as it plots the way it wants rather than the way I want.
Reading about the woes people are having with the XT series I will carry on using my old Zumo for as long as it works. It even clipped straight into the holder on my recently acquired R1250 GSA although the wheel thing doesn’t do anything with it. I don’t tend to mess about with it once on the move anyway.
Does anyone know of a replacement for the Zumo please?

 

[Wapping]

These XT and the later XT2 Garmin devices do seem to create a lot of problems. My very old Zumo 660 just continues to work exactly as it should. I do seem to use it in a very different way to some people though. I don’t just ask the sat nav to get me from A to B. I plot routes on Basecamp and then send them to the Zumo. That way it takes me on the route I want use.
I have tried the my route app and it just seemed much more difficult than Basecamp, nowhere near as user friendly.
I have also tried google maps but that is pretty useless for plotting routes as it plots the way it wants rather than the way I want.
Reading about the woes people are having with the XT series I will carry on using my old Zumo for as long as it works. It even clipped straight into the holder on my recently acquired R1250 GSA although the wheel thing doesn’t do anything with it. I don’t tend to mess about with it once on the move anyway.
Does anyone know of a replacement for the Zumo please?

Now we really are drifting….

Lots of bods hate BaseCamp with a passion, usually reserved for solicitors, estate agents, women who can’t drive, anyone not born in Yorkshire (except those born in Doncaster or Bradford, who are all scum and often a bit too dark) and politicians…. Except for the ones they like, obviously.

Me? I very much liked BaseCamp, but I also like MyRoute, preferring it in many ways. But hey, that’s just me.

Replacements for the 660? The BMW branded Navigator IV, V and edition three VI’s are very good. The XT1, is very good, too. I have no experience of the XT2, nor likely to ever gain any. The Bumblebee offering is very basic but, within its limitations, it does work. The MyRoute Navigtion app, I also like but I only use it with a sacrificial phone. Likewise the phone mirroring devices, like the Chigee whatsit, are popular in many quarters….. There again, so is a map…..