The law and a 33bhp restricted bike?

[dave hendy]

Does anyone know the law regarding a restricted 33bhp bike? Dealers are telling me that they will fit a restrictor kit and provide a certificate for the insurance. But this is going to be expensive. I can get a second hand kit and fit it myself, but then I won't have the certificate! Can I just get the bike put on a dyno and use this for the insurance and police as I recon I can save £100.

I can't seem to find any information on this

 

[billynomates]

just fitted a kit (if you can call one bracket a kit) for my wifes F650 GS took about 45 minuites and 10 odd quid from Bmw for the small chunk of metal stamped with the rating.
Carol Nash werent bothered just informed us that the bike had to comply with the Licience applicable to the rider other wise the insurance would be invalid.
Obviously in an accident situation the police would check the relevent docs and report them to the insurance company if a restrictor was not fitted.
ian

 

[ianboydsnr]

Does anyone know the law regarding a restricted 33bhp bike? Dealers are telling me that they will fit a restrictor kit and provide a certificate for the insurance. But this is going to be expensive. I can get a second hand kit and fit it myself, but then I won't have the certificate! Can I just get the bike put on a dyno and use this for the insurance and police as I recon I can save £100.

I can't seem to find any information on this

Yes, though if the police suspect its false, then they will get the bike tested, as they would with the official certificate, if they suspected that was false also, both only mean anything if the police/insurance believe them to be true

 

[MikeP]

Police are only likely to be interested if there is evidence that it isn't restricted and the rider is.

They may examine the bike if it were involved in a collision if the rider was on a restricted licence.

Same (I imagine) for an insurer. They are unlikely to be interested unless the possible lack of restriction was contributory in a claim.

In both cases, it's only likely to become a concern after a reason to check.

 

[dave hendy]

There seems to be no black and white rules regarding this. This evening I rang Devits Insurance who told me they didn't need any proof and would go on our word. They said I might have to prove to the police the bike is restricted. So I rang the Police help line the girl I spoke to knew nothing about it and her supervisor said it was the insurance companies that would have an issue with it. When I said they had told me it was the Police that would want to have proof she said I would need to ring back and try and speak to a traffic officer. Going on past experience with traffic officers they are just as hit and miss with what they say

 

[VAL. H.]

You don't actually have to have a certificate for a restricted bike.

F650's are easy and cheep to restrict. Even a BW dealer should only charge £50-£60 at most, (it's a half Hour job) he won't give you a certificate either.

Other bikes 'particularly carburetted bikes' are more complicated and therefore expensive to restrict. You'll often receive a certificate once the work is done, but it's not necessary to have one, and only really given so the owner has something to wave at interested parties (generaly in the pub).

As has been said. It's up to the police and the Insurance company to discover if the bike is actually restricted. A certificate is no proof that the restrictor is still in place, so what's the point of having one.

Of course your conscience plays a big part in this too.



Val.

 

[MikeP]

There seems to be no black and white rules regarding this.

Yes there is!

It's black & white that someone with a restricted entitlement has to comply with the law (ie not ride a solo motorcycle that exceeds 33 bhp).

You are making a simple situation more complex by thinking that you have to establish that the bike is restricted.

It is no different to having insurance.

Do you trot along to the police when your insurance has been renewed and show it to them?

Of course you don't.

Blinking Flip!

We moan that Big Brother is getting too powerful and here when Big Brother couldn't give a fly feck, you moan that no-one is interested!

 

[richie]

I was in www.cawleysmotorcycletuning.com the other day coz a lad needed a dyno to prove his jap import 250 was only 33BHP.... Fergus did three dyno runs for him,,,, cough cough,,,, just to prove it...

 

[bowser]

Got to say in my experience if you have a bike that comes as standard with more than 33bhp and you want to ride it on a restricted licence, old bill would want to see a certificate, if they dont see one they would probably assume that it was not restricted and therefore you would be driving other than in accordance with your licence and again therefore without insurance, so you would be walking home. You would then have to prove it was restricted etc. in order to get it back.

Don't forget YOU have to prove that it is below 33bhp, if you don't have the bike that would be a little difficult. I cant see a sheet of paper from a local dyno company cutting the mustard.
The certificate that comes with the kit, states the kit complies with the law, its signed by the mechanic that fits it to the effect its been fitted correctly, and then its signed by the owner to state that they know its been restricted and wont knowingly de-restrict it.

Kits are NOT transferable, so buying one second hand is not an option.

 

[billynomates]

Got to say in my experience if you have a bike that comes as standard with more than 33bhp and you want to ride it on a restricted licence, old bill would want to see a certificate, if they dont see one they would probably assume that it was not restricted and therefore you would be driving other than in accordance with your licence and again therefore without insurance, so you would be walking home. You would then have to prove it was restricted etc. in order to get it back.

Don't forget YOU have to prove that it is below 33bhp, if you don't have the bike that would be a little difficult. I cant see a sheet of paper from a local dyno company cutting the mustard.
The certificate that comes with the kit, states the kit complies with the law, its signed by the mechanic that fits it to the effect its been fitted correctly, and then its signed by the owner to state that they know its been restricted and wont knowingly de-restrict it.


Kits are NOT transferable, so buying one second hand is not an option.

There was no certificate with the restrictor kit from BMW when I got one for the F650 GS and the plate is clearly stamped with the KW rating the insurance company did Not want proof.
And as for the Police stopping you and asking for a cert bloody hell who carries around their V5/License/insurance/passport/E11/flu jab/blue tongue inoculations.
So if your not carring your restricted License when your stopped how do the cops know your a restricted rider until you produce at the station with no bike to check?

 

[bowser]

There was no certificate with the restrictor kit from BMW when I got one for the F650 GS and the plate is clearly stamped with the KW rating the insurance company did Not want proof.
And as for the Police stopping you and asking for a cert bloody hell who carries around their V5/License/insurance/passport/E11/flu jab/blue tongue inoculations.
So if your not carring your restricted License when your stopped how do the cops know your a restricted rider until you produce at the station with no bike to check?

A pnc check, will tell what kind of licence you have, who your insurance company are? If the vehicle is taxed

 

[karlp]

Got to say in my experience if you have a bike that comes as standard with more than 33bhp and you want to ride it on a restricted licence, old bill would want to see a certificate, if they dont see one they would probably assume that it was not restricted and therefore you would be driving other than in accordance with your licence and again therefore without insurance, so you would be walking home. You would then have to prove it was restricted etc. in order to get it back.

Don't forget YOU have to prove that it is below 33bhp, if you don't have the bike that would be a little difficult. I cant see a sheet of paper from a local dyno company cutting the mustard.
The certificate that comes with the kit, states the kit complies with the law, its signed by the mechanic that fits it to the effect its been fitted correctly, and then its signed by the owner to state that they know its been restricted and wont knowingly de-restrict it.


Kits are NOT transferable, so buying one second hand is not an option.

Didn't sign a sheet when we bought a new Kawasaki (restricted by dealer) and the sheet was an added bonus when p/x with the dealer because it was proof rather than hearsay.

 

[dave hendy]

At present my wife is thinking about a Suzuki SV650 and I rekon I can save at least £100 on what the dealers want, its just down to the legality!

 

[DrFarkoff]

A Dyno run showing no more than 33 brake horsepower with restrictors fitted will suffice in many cases

Point If the restrictors are not in and you have confirmed that they are IF there is an incident an dthey are found not to be there?
.........Then there's a case of "Fraud" that may be taken up, if say a death occured due to excessive speed?

Back when I worked for the dealers, I refused to fit restrictors and sign the paperwork for a client who fully intended to remove them i.e. My boss wanted me to fit them and sign them off and before I refitted the side panels (R1150RT 04) remove them

Told em "No! in no uncertain terms!" I said if thats the case I'll strip it the foreman can fit and remove and sign and I'll build it up! It's a Legal Document and I could have been taken to court if an incident occured! Funnily enough no one offered to do it!!!
Twas about the only time I stuck up for my self back then, wished to Hell I done it a Hell of a Lot more Often!! Schtuuum!

 

[bowser]

Didn't sign a sheet when we bought a new Kawasaki (restricted by dealer) and the sheet was an added bonus when p/x with the dealer because it was proof rather than hearsay.

Great you didn't sign it, sorry but it don't make it legal just because you didn't get asked. It may be that factroy kits are different to the after market kits, and there is a difference if it is a model manufactured from the factory to make less than 33 bhp (but you still cant fit extras to make it go faster) If its an under 33 bhp bike then old bill have to prove its making more than that, but if the bike was originally making over 33 then its YOUR job to PROVE that is currently meets the legal limit, police dont have to prove anything it assumed to be over 33 bhp unless proven other wise.

But lets get this straight if you were supposed to, its YOUR fault if is not done, its up to YOU to make sure you understand the restrictions, If you are on a restricted licence it is up to YOU to make sure the bike is restricted, it is up to YOU to prove it if asked by the old bill. If you get caught without you are looking at more than 6 points, for the two offences of driving other than in accordance with your licence and no insurance.

I have never heard of ANYONE who was on a restricted licence NOT being required to produce a restriction certificate if the bike was originally on the over 33 bhp list. I will take the word of any of you who tell me that you can get away with a Dyno certificate but personally I haven't come across this.

I really cant see what the discussion is all about, if you have a non 33 bhp bike you have to buy a restriction kit the cost is the same wherever you get it, at best you save the cost of fitting, and you would still have the cost of dyno testing if its applicable. For the sake of £100 save yourself the possible grief and just get the kit and get it fitted, it can be fitted by any mechanic it dont have to be a main dealer, afaik any mechanic can fit it and sign the paperwork.

Personally speaking, if I stopped someone I would want proof then and there that the bike was restricted or you would be walking home.

 

[BBB61]

I've known of people turning up for their accelerated access tests on bikes that produce more than 47bhp (the DAS limit) but the bikes have been restricted to 33 bhp. The DSA examiner would have no way of telling if the bike was restricted as they don't go above 70mph on test ( and at some test centres they might not exceed 50).

A friend of mine did his own modification to the airbox for his daughters bike and when they dynoed it it was under 33bhp. As far as I know there is nothing in the law that covers bikes being restricted and what proof you have to provide that it has been done, though I stand to be corrected if it is the case.

 

[sijohnston]

restriction?

I got my test in April and didn't bother restricting my 800GS when I picked it up in May. Working in the car trade, I spoke to 2 insurance assessors who independently said there's no point in restricting a bike like that, and one of them has only ever asked for proof of restriction after an accident (and living/working in Dunlop territory of NI, there's a lot of bikers and consequently accidents). In almost every conversation with every bike shop owner, they all unanimously said, 'I wouldn't bother my ass restricting it'. Now I don't know if the law is less stringently applied over here (I suspect in rural Ireland it is, because generally they give you a bit of a slap on the wrist and tell you to get it sorted - ie., not jobsworths as it turns more on relationship and grace than the letter of the law), but frankly for me to restrict a bike like an 800 would have me in an early grave. There would be insufficient passing power which is exactly what had an H-D rider from here killed in Scotland a few weeks ago. OK, so the argument can then be leveled that I should be on a 125 for the first 2 years, but as a 32-year-old with not insignificant car racing experience that would be a nonsense and frankly I think I'd have taken up line-dancing instead. The fact is that a tiny percentage of people here restrict their bikes (from what I can tell), and if a law enforcement officer made me walk home owing to me not being able to produce a certificate there and then, then I'd hope he goes to bed satisfied that he'd executed his job with such perfunctory legalism, and that he'd sleep soundly safe in the knowledge that her highness would be utterly proud of his duties to the crown. Should we start a discussion in the beakchat and bollox on the evolution of law and the return of relational ethics?

Caveat: Maybe I'm more casual about it because of the huge sums of money we throw at the insurance company for our fleet policies for our dealerships. I guess if I was an independent individual I might look at things differently.