There must be a better way!

[steve case]

I have been looking at mails on surging problems and the answers all seem to include TPS voltages, CO2 sensor (non-cat model) and balancing the injectors.
Apart from the injector balancing, the TPS and CO2 sensor feed into a CPU which then controls the injector map, this is what the dealers connect to and read data from/to.
Has anyone used any aftermarket diagnostics systems or software?

 

[Stewart H]

I have seen a mate use a device called a GS911 to read fault codes on BMW bikes with the diagnostic socket, I dont know about injection mapping though, probably more specialised.
Stewart

 

[Welshman]

Detailed end float(close to the min) and valve clearance setting, then throttle bodies and cables balanced at 3500 to 4000 cured mine ?

 

[sproggy]

I have been looking at mails on surging problems and the answers all seem to include TPS voltages, CO2 sensor (non-cat model) and balancing the injectors.

Surging will be reduced if you set the valve clearances properly, set the TPS correctly and do a throttle balance (you don't balance the injectors). There is no CO2 sensor. There is an O2 sensor (lambda probe) on bikes with a catalytic convertor - that's all 1150s and some 1100s.

Apart from the injector balancing, the TPS and CO2 sensor feed into a CPU which then controls the injector map, this is what the dealers connect to and read data from/to.
Has anyone used any aftermarket diagnostics systems or software?

The chip in the ECU contains several maps for fuel injection and ignition timing. Do a search to CCP or Cat Code Plug to find information about using this to switch between different maps.

You say you have been looking at mails on surging problems but you don't say why (do you have problems?) and you haven't mentioned what bike you've got but surging, to a greater or lesser degree depending upon setup and a bit of luck, is a feature of these bikes. It isn't something that diagnostic systems will find or cure because it isn't a 'fault' as far as the Motronic ECU is concerned. Fitting an aftermarket chip (e.g. BBPower) or fuelling adjuster (TFI/Techlusion or Power Commander) can reduce it significantly even on a well set up bike.

To clarify your statement, dealers don't connect to or read data from the fuelling map but they can read error codes from the ECU.

 

[motobiker]

The chip in the ECU contains several maps for fuel injection and ignition timing. Do a search to CCP or Cat Code Plug to find information about using this to switch between different maps.

sorry sproggy - this is a red herring.


The OP owns an 1100 - the (steptoe) CCP mod doesn't work on these bikes.. either you fit the original CCP or you remove it. Its removed on my bike.

There is a CO potentiometer fitted to the 1100.. but I'm not qualified to say whether fiddling with this will affect surging or not.. I believe its used to control how lean or rich the fuel supply is.

to be honest I believe a proper service/set up by someone who really knows the bike is the best way to cure surging. Steve, I would suggest you book the bike in with steptoe in south London who will, I'm sure, fix your running problems in short order.

 

[PONDGUY]

I have a '98 1100 and the one single change I made was to try Autolite plugs(here in the US).These are single electrode as opposed to the double Bosch. The switch made a noticable difference in how the bike ran. I'm still in the process of sorting out a "fuel nanny" which has also helped. Good luck

 

[sproggy]

sorry sproggy - this is a red herring.


The OP owns an 1100 - the (steptoe) CCP mod doesn't work on these bikes..

That's why I asked what bike the OP has because he omitted to mention it.

Providing full information is more likely to result in a helpful (relevant) answer.

But now it's my turn to correct your statement

There is a CO potentiometer fitted to the 1100..

There's a CO pot fitted to some 1100s, but not all of them. Others (the ones fitted with a cat?) had an O2 sensor in the exhaust, although I believe the CO pot can be retro-fitted instead of the O2 sensor.

But the advice to get the bike set up properly before looking elsewhere for problems is sound - a valve adjustment and throttle balance can work wonders

Steve, have you owned an oilhead before? Because if you're a recent convert from Jap inline 4s (I mention this only because you're a fairly new poster) then you'll need a period of aclimatisation before you come to accept and love the way these engines run

 

[dancata]

There's a CO pot fitted to some 1100s, but not all of them. Others (the ones fitted with a cat?) had an O2 sensor in the exhaust, although I believe the CO pot can be retro-fitted instead of the O2 sensor.

So from what I understand, bikes come out of the factory without a catalitic converter, meaning that it has a CO potentiometer installed or with catalitic converter case that it has a lambda probe instead of a CO pot and one can give up the lambda probe and install a CO pot instead?

Mine has a catalitic converter, no lambda probe (oxigen senzor) and has a CO pot, meaning the PO made the change, right?

Dan.

 

[sproggy]

So from what I understand, bikes come out of the factory without a catalitic converter, meaning that it has a CO potentiometer installed or with catalitic converter case that it has a lambda probe instead of a CO pot and one can give up the lambda probe and install a CO pot instead?

That's what I understand but I've been living in 1150 world for quite a long time since I had an 1100 so someone else may want to confirm.

Mine has a catalitic converter, no lambda probe (oxigen senzor) and has a CO pot, meaning the PO made the change, right?

Errrrr. Maybe. Probably. But maybe Romanian bikes had a CO pot and a cat as standard......... Probably a good idea to stick your frame number into RealOEM and see what it says about your bike's original spec.

 

[dancata]

That's what I understand but I've been living in 1150 world for quite a long time since I had an 1100 so someone else may want to confirm.



Errrrr. Maybe. Probably. But maybe Romanian bikes had a CO pot and a cat as standard......... Probably a good idea to stick your frame number into RealOEM and see what it says about your bike's original spec.

I bought it from a german guy who then bought a 1150gs; he was the PO and only owner of the bike.

 

[steve case]

Cheers lads, the bikes an early 1997 build 1100 with no cat and a pot under the seat for CO2.
I do get surge on it in traffic & if I'm trickling on bumpy B roads but the answer is to avoid traffic and pin it on the backroads!

I've had the bike since Jan 2001 so I know it pretty well, and I know the tappets and end float is ok. I have set the balance myself had it done at BMW and by a specialist and it generally feels the same (though it took a few attempts when I did it).

I have found that the slack in the cable has more affect than the the bike being mildly out of balance and also the condition of the throttle bodies. I have had one throttle body so badly worn on the spindle it would not tick over and the problem was instantly resolved when I replaced it.

I think I just have to live with the early injection as it is a bit hmm...agricultural. The one thing I would like to sort is wet roundabouts so the smoother the better though this was mainly the F*&^%$£"! Michelin T66's.
The reason I want to look at the diagnostics route is that BMW's will get more networked systems etc as time goes on and when I get another I guess we won't have any choice it will be necessary

 

[steve case]

P.P.S whats a CCP???????????

 

[sproggy]

P.P.S whats a CCP???????????

Cat Code Plug. It looks like a relay but is actually just a jumper and is used on the 1150s to switch between the different fuel/ignition maps. On the 1100 it does something slightly different as motobiker pointed out.

 

[Popeye]

P.P.S whats a CCP???????????

Cat Code Plug

 

[motobiker]

My 1999 1100 was originally a german import and so had a cat fitted in the exhaust and a lamda probe.

however...

just to confuse everyone.. including me when I found it.. it also has a CO pot in the usual position.

I swapped the exhaust for a Uk spec and unplugged the Lamda probe wiring from the loom as per Steptoes advice.. the bike runs exceptionally well... plugs are a nice shade of beige, mpg is what i'ld expect, so the CO pot is doing its job and hasn't been touched..

strange but true.

 

[Deleted account 111026]

Carburettors, 47 - 49mpg, no surging, 100% home maintainable!

 

[Steptoe]

Carburettors, 47 - 49mpg, no surging, 100% home maintainable!

Fuel injection - up to 360 miles to an ADV tank ( still 4 bars remaining ) no surging, 110% home maintainable and no carbs to go out of balance or rebuild.

Fuel injection, no need to be scared, it's the future.

 

[Steptoe]

The chip in the ECU contains several maps for fuel injection and ignition timing. Do a search to CCP or Cat Code Plug to find information about using this to switch between different maps.

.

You keep getting it wrong

Here's someone who's gone down the correct route and has come to the same conclusion i reached 5 years ago. He's almost there, just a tiny weeny bit out on a certain part.


From ADV rider...

For whomever else was wondering about this:

I was curious about Cat Code jumper settings VS. O2 sensor and I think I sorted a bit of this out. I plugged a GS-911 in and noticed with Steptoe’s mod or the yellow factory plug that the O2 sensor output varies up and down as expected at idle and at any RPM with the bike on the center stand. With no cat code plug installed I see the O2 sensor varying up and down at only idle, at anything above idle the GS-911 shows the O2 sensor going to a high value and flat lining there until you go back to idle – I believe this means that above idle the O2 sensor is being ignored and the pre-programmed fuel mapping are being used.

...
Anyway, now that I’ve played around and put some more miles on it my bike runs fantastic since I adjusted the rocker end play and used Steptoe’s cat code jumper mod. The rocker end play fixed the surging, and the bike just feels better in general with cat code plug jumper settings that Steptoe suggested in other threads. I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and the hall of wisdom, it really helped me get this bike running silky smooth.




I had help from a friend who designs fuel injection systems ( early vauxhall and corvette being two of his examples), that's designs, not improves or messes about with what others have done, but designed to work in everyday everyman examples in run of the mill engines at affordable prices for manufactures to produce. Far harder work than designing one off or smaller batch systems where money or longevity and everyday use isn't a consideration.

I've had a chuckle over the years at all the bollox posted about what's actually happening when different links are used. And i know why links work on some bikes and not others, that why i've always simply said "try it and see", and thats all you need to know or to do.

 

[D6]

I believe this means that above idle the O2 sensor is being ignored and the pre-programmed fuel mapping are being used.
is this correct????

 

[Steptoe]

I believe this means that above idle the O2 sensor is being ignored and the pre-programmed fuel mapping are being used.
is this correct????

There's a bit more to it - Very few have noticed the torque my bike produces, you'll also hear a very flat deep exhaust note - Ming is one, when on skye last year he passed a comment about my bike "fecking pulling like a good'un" while riding behind his KTM . And a couple of years ago in morocco riding back hard to ceuta in the rif mountains behind the 1200's of chris and wapping while everyone else was way back in the distance.
Also on the hogroast beginers offroad day - last hill of the day, long and steep, everyone was spinning and revving to get up it, i stuck my bike in 3rd and pottled up it at walking pace with no fuss.
Anyway, end of thread for me.