Tried a Triumph Tiger 800 and Yamaha Super Tenere today

[BBB61]

Jeez you guys are anal. Dont you have anything better to do.

It's good sport!

 

[Rasher]

The fact that you are a short arse and can't reach the floor properly on your GS doesn't make the Super Ten more compact

I am 6'1 so not exactly short, yet notice the firmer feet planting on the GS is harder to achieve.

Bike Magazine measured the BMW at 246.7KG and the Yamaha at 264kg, if you believe the manufacturers published weights your a complete fool, although it look like Yamaha are being pretty honest and BMW are talking complete shite, the difference is 17.3 kg, less the 2.1kg for fuel = 15.2.

I also found an internet article where someone grabbed a load of mates bikes and put them on some weighbridge and also found similar results (i.e. BMW are not too honest about the fully fuelled weight, perhaps they mean fully fuelled with the wheels taken out, or the FD on the bench being repaired at the time)

So we have 246.7 + 90 = 336.7

Vs

261.9 + 90 = 351.9

So under 5%, hardly a big difference, and if that means the FD is up to the bloody job then the extra metal is well worth having.

I've not ridden the Super Ten so I can't comment

..... but then you continue to do so anyway - go and ride one and you will see what smooth low running really means, I don't mean it pulls from 2k like a GS will, a fucked washing machine vibrates less at 2000 rpm than a GS motor under load.

We agree on one point, that is progress

 

[Georgeeboi]

this is great

 

[BBB61]

I am 6'1 so not exactly short, yet notice the firmer feet planting on the GS is harder to achieve.

Presumably the Yam was on the same seat height setting as your GS? You did check that didn't you? Are your GS seats higher since Tony Archer modded them?

Bike Magazine measured the BMW at 246.7KG and the Yamaha at 264kg, if you believe the manufacturers published weights your a complete fool, although it look like Yamaha are being pretty honest and BMW are talking complete shite, the difference is 17.3 kg, less the 2.1kg for fuel = 15.2.

Funny how you are selective in what you believe in the press. One minute you are deriding them as being funded by BMW and the next, when they come up with something that suits you, you are believing them.

I also found an internet article where someone grabbed a load of mates bikes and put them on some weighbridge and also found similar results (i.e. BMW are not too honest about the fully fuelled weight, perhaps they mean fully fuelled with the wheels taken out, or the FD on the bench being repaired at the time)

Perhaps you could give us the link to this article, if its not too much trouble?

..... but then you continue to do so anyway - go and ride one and you will see what smooth low running really means, I don't mean it pulls from 2k like a GS will, a fucked washing machine vibrates less at 2000 rpm than a GS motor under load.

I guess I will have a go on one when I am ready to sell my GS, but as it is nicely sorted and reliable I don't see the point until I am ready to change.

Still good to see you spouting more of your crap about vibration levels on the GS though. Are you sure you know how to ride a motorcycle properly?

 

[BBB61]

this is great

It's very good sport. After all, a man who reads the forums, finds all sorts of horror stories about GS's and when they break down and what causes it, but still buys one anyway. And then spends the rest of his life worrying about when it is going to break down. And don't forget all the misinformation about service intervals, an inability to understand when the bike needs a service, coming up with service prices that don't seem to bear any reference to reality, and all the other bollox.

It's very entertaining!!

And as you can see in this thread the bollocks from him continues

 

[Rasher]

Presumably the Yam was on the same seat height setting as your GS? You did check that didn't you? Are your GS seats higher since Tony Archer modded them?

Same settings and yes TA seat is about an inch higher, I also run a fair bit of pre-load so my own bike does sit higher, but I also rode stock demo 2010 same day and it is still feels a bit higher than the Yamaha.

In fact it is one thing I prefer on the BMW, you really do feel much higher up, on the Yamaha you feel more "in" than "on" - despite what the specs sheets say to me the Yam "feels" lower.

Perhaps you could give us the link to this article, if its not too much trouble?

Heres the link:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682993&page=19

About 1/3rd of the page down

Still good to see you spouting more of your crap about vibration levels on the GS though. Are you sure you know how to ride a motorcycle properly?

Fairly certain, and I have ridden both and can therefore compare, you seem to be a typical "blinkered" BMW owner refusing to believe anything could be better in any conceivable way, the Tenere is massively smoother, even the "paid off" press can't lie to this degree.

I also reckon the bike will prove more reliable over time, although the blinkered BMW owners are able to somehow completely overlook EWS / FPC / FD / Cam Sensors / Fuel Gauge / RH Valve issues and claim the GS is totally reliable with no issues, whereas normal people would describe the GS' diabolical reliability record as just that.

 

[BBB61]

Fairly certain, and I have ridden both and can therefore compare, you seem to be a typical "blinkered" BMW owner refusing to believe anything could be better in any conceivable way, the Tenere is massively smoother, even the "paid off" press can't lie to this degree.

I also reckon the bike will prove more reliable over time, although the blinkered BMW owners are able to somehow completely overlook EWS / FPC / FD / Cam Sensors / Fuel Gauge / RH Valve issues and claim the GS is totally reliable with no issues, whereas normal people would describe the GS' diabolical reliability record as just that.

So what you are saying is when we respond to your attempt at giving us "facts" we are blinkered? Is that the best you can manage?

 

[BBB61]

Heres the link:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682993&page=19

About 1/3rd of the page down

Maybe you should learn to read Rasher. According to the thread in ADVRider the difference between the GS and the Super Ten is 26kg, not the 17kg you claimed above. They weighed the GS at 242kg and the Super Ten at 268kg.

 

[snakebasket]

Wow, this is some thread! I can't imagine getting quite so fired up about choosing a bike but I can add that over the last couple of months I have been down the route of choosing a new bike and settled on a very discounted Super Ten. Just run it in and very happy with it.

I had a Tiger 955 , XT660R, and 1100GS as regular rides, and tested 1200 GS and GSA before the buying the SuperTenere. I just preferred the way it rode to the GS, I know it will be reliable and the options for luggage etc are good and I intend to keep it 5 years. Having had the 955 for 5 years I wouldn't buy another Triumph as it did have niggly problems (nothing serious but enough to piss me off) , the XT660 I have had for a year and did a 15,000 mile trip on, without it missing a beat, and this did influence my choice, and the 1100 is obviously old, has its moments but is a great bike I won't be selling. The Tiger is gone and the 660 is up for sale at the moment.

I would recommend the Super Ten to anybody at its current pricing but wouldn't consider it at over £10,000.

 

[Rasher]

Maybe you should learn to read Rasher. According to the thread in ADVRider the difference between the GS and the Super Ten is 26kg, not the 17kg you claimed above. They weighed the GS at 242kg and the Super Ten at 268kg.

Perhaps you should learn to read my friend.

Bike Magazine had the difference of the bikes (as tested) at 17kg, the ADV rider post has the difference at 26kg.

My point is however you add it up the difference s nowhere near as high as many make out, by the time the bike is fueled and someone sat on it the difference is well under 10% (Even if Pedrosa was on the bike)

The CofG is also lower on the Yamaha so it feels no heavier than the GS when riding it, even at crawling speed - and please do not argue this if you have not ridden the bikes back to back.

So what you are saying is when we respond to your attempt at giving us "facts" we are blinkered? Is that the best you can manage?

No, I am saying anyone who would describe the GS as a very reliable bike must be blinkered, they have probably had more recalls than any other bike on the planet, suffered terribly with a huge number of common faults and yet some owners still refuse to believe any other bike could be as reliable.

Similarly Bob is convinced his bike is as smooth or smoother than the Yamaha despite not have ridden one, purely based on the fact it is a BMW and therefore must be superior.

Whenever I mention reliability of Jap stuff such as VFR's or Blackbirds someone chirps in about how shite they are because the regulators occasionally fail, as if this is worse than the fate of GS owners who have had 3 or 4 final drives a couple of FPC's and an EWS failure.

This is probably why BMW tell blatant lies about the bikes weight, as they know the typical BMW owner will take anything they say as gospel, Yamaha appear to have been pretty honest about the bikes actual weight.

Heres a real good review from the US of A

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/12/11079/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Adventure-Touring-Shootout.aspx

And they tested all on the Dyno / Strip / Scales and rode them side by side:

The (Yamaha) torque curve generally tops the rest of the machines with exception to the Ducati, and is essentially flat from 3000 to 7000 rpm before tapering off to the 8100 rpm redline. Maximum torque is 71.19 lb-ft. at 5500 revs.

“Its long, smooth power delivery is very quiet and vibration free

“It has a constant push that feels like you’re propelled by a nuclear generator.

Even though it doesn’t post massive peak numbers, the linear output and ability to stretch each gear allowed it to post the best 0-60 mph time.

They also mention the better traction control:

Even with the most aggressive mode, the Yamaha still doesn’t cut out as much as the others and it allows enough tire spin to help steer with the rear end, which is very necessary in the dirt.

All of our riders praised the Yamaha for its behavior on the street. It refuses to be pushed off-line and it surprised all of us with its ability to carve through twisty sections

Perhaps some of the extra weight comes from a decent drive-train that won't go wrong all the time

Yamaha joins BMW in offering shaft drive to the rear wheel, but the Tenere’s drivetrain is superior to the German’s. Four out of five testers ranked the Japanese drivetrain first, and the fifth had it a close second.

I’m not surprised the only Japanese bike of the bunch has the best drivetrain. Smooth and positive gear changes, no noticeable drivetrain ‘snatch’ and smooth, silent, care-free shaft drive are a plus for adventure travel

It seems like a good allrounder to me

Nearly zero engine and road vibration, plush suspension, ultra stable chassis, best seat-bar-peg relationship combined with the best rider protection,” sums Riant. “Add the least wind noise and buffeting and the Yamaha is my top choice for comfort.”

The engine is a rugged performer and the drivetrain is practically flawless.

And they also commented on how un-smooth the GS runs at low speeds Bob....

At low speed the throttle response becomes very choppy while easing along with slow traffic,” Maddox says about the BMW. “This sensation is exaggerated by the slack in the shaft drive. When the speeds pick up it’s not as noticeable, although a hard downshift will result in a chirp of the rear tire.”

If you look at the torque curves you can see how smooth the Yamaha delivery is, and how even the latest GS motor has a hole in the 5k - 6k region.

On the power graph you can see how it manifests as a peaky delivery with the GS that probably gives a false impression on a much meatier top end, when in fact it only betters the Yamaha from 7k-8k - so the Yamaha is actually better in the RPM most people use 95% of the time.

I think the much lower gearing allows the GS to outrun the Yamaha quite easily when caning along in higher gears, but at the expense of high speed cruising, and again how much time does the average owner spend thrashing away at 7k+ in the higher gears.


I am still not saying the Yamaha is flawless (I will leave Bob to go through the article and quote all the Yamaha's weak points) just that it is not a bad bike and does do some things better then the GS.

In fact this review gives the Yamaha an even worse weight than any others, but the bike is fully loaded with al crash bars, sump gaurds - and lets be honest most GS owners put a few hundred weight of touratwat junk on their GS' anyway.


And before Bob decides none of them know how to ride a bike:

Dave Riant has been to the northern and southern tips of North America on two wheels. Four decades of riding has seen him chase ISDE glory in his younger years and he’s since transitioned into dual sporting, trials riding and adventure touring. His regular travels have taken him across the U.S. and he visits Mexico every year

Our testing troupe consisted of five men, separated by up to 30 years of age and 75 pounds - dirt fiends and street lovers with over 135 years of combined riding experience

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Excellent thread

 

[BBB61]

Snipped Rasher's selective use of the road test:

,

The final outcome of that test was they rated the GS first and the Super Ten third. They weighed the Super Ten at 287kg against the Yamaha figure of 261kg. They found that the dyno curves for the GS did not translate into lapses or surges at the right wrist. They made no comment about vibration levels below 2000rpm for the GS.

So all that work, the cutting and pasting and what has it shown Rasher? It has shown a bike that has been around since 2004, with the engine change last year being the main change to it in that time, is still rated better overall than the Super Ten, a bike which Yamaha have had six years to develop since the introduction of the GS. In that time they have not produced a GS beater in all respects.

Finally, can you show me where I have said that I am "convinced his bike is as smooth or smoother than the Yamaha despite not have ridden one, purely based on the fact it is a BMW and therefore must be superior."

 

[harry]

All interesting stuff, for me the GS is the better bike to ride hard, this being mainly due to the Duo-lever front end, weather protection(ADV) and always having warm feet in winter.

I think, because of the excellent front end, the GS has little to fear from the competition, power has little to do with it, torque is what it's about and the GS has it in spades.

 

[Georgeeboi]

I think you two should meet up over a pint i bet you will get on like a house on fire.....

 

[Nutty]

I'm enjoying this.

 

[BBB61]

I'm enjoying this.

Glad to be of service

 

[BBB61]

I think you two should meet up over a pint i bet you will get on like a house on fire.....

That would be interesting but I am sure Rasher would have reservations about going to certain pubs and drinking certain beers because he read on the internet somewhere that they cause bad flatulence.

 

[Tricky]

I think you two should meet up over a pint i bet you will get on like a house on fire.....

What very heated?

Nice bit of keyboard sparring from the two boys. You know a bit like when Ali and Frazier went toe to toe and Frost squared up to Nixon or something like that...

So less Hitler and Stalin and more Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck.

 

[Rasher]

That would be interesting but I am sure Rasher would have reservations about going to certain pubs and drinking certain beers because he read on the internet somewhere that they cause bad flatulence.

Oh, no I am happy to drink Corona, much to the womans disgust, certainly happy to settle it in a drink-off, last man standing

Blue Oyster Bar at sunset?

I think I am running out of puff fighting for the Tenere on a GS forum , right one last fling:

They made no comment about vibration levels below 2000rpm for the GS

No, because it vibrates far more than the Yamaha everywhere! and they pointed out how crap it runs at low speed.

....In that time they have not produced a GS beater in all respects.

I never said they had, but on this forum the mere suggestion anyone can beat a BMW in any area seems to enrage the "blinkered's".

I have always stated I generally prefer riding the GS, but the Yamaha does have some tricks up it's sleeve. Similarly the GS has had decades of refining and does not beat the Yamaha in every department, surely it should be miles ahead with such a huge head start?

I completely agree with the 6 years Yamaha had they should have done a lot better, sharper steering is easy to attain, the modern LC engine should have had the edge from tickover to (a slightly higher) redline with more torque in the middle and a good dollop of whoop-arse at the top.

I will forgive the weight on the basis it proves to be pretty bulletproof, and the new GS will probably weigh a fair bit more when carrying a radiator and gallon of coolant.

Finally, can you show me where I have said that I am "convinced his bike is as smooth or smoother than the Yamaha despite not have ridden one, purely based on the fact it is a BMW and therefore must be superior."

I am not sure exactly what you said, nor can I be bothered to look for it, but you indicated my suggestion the Yamaha may be smoother and the GS is prone to vibration was ridiculed by me not knowing how to ride and you blurted on about how your GS pulls oh-so smoothly from 2k in top - my point is regardless of how smooth you think your bucking bronco of a BMW is at those revs and under that load the Tenere does it a shit load better!

Now if I do get one of these beasties it will soon be fitted with a Wilburs shock with ride height adjuster to sort the steering, and an ECU remap with the Diapson mapping to get the power over the GS everywhere - and release all that grunt in the lower gears.

Then I will come back and gloat some more, but until then I have to admit I will be enjoying every second I spend on my GS

 

[Wapping]

Not often that I wander over to the Kia-Ora section....

But the news of Bob (Parking meter) Southgate's spat with Rasher (I'd rather have a Yam, thanks) spat came my way. All good stuff

Carry on, regardless.