Tried (another) one today

[MikeP]

I took my GSA in to Ocean for its MoT today and was told that they were expecting a triple-black 1200 Adv in any moment (whenever they mentioned a new 1200 to me, I always said that none of them are black enough for me).

I was offered their 1200 Twin Cam so with nothing else to do went for a ride.

There are some nice things; the extra power is nice but not really necessary, the exhaust note is nice, fruity without being intrusive. The brakes are nice in, no better in operation than the last version of Servo-ABS, just less complicated.

The ESA seems pretty pointless. I rode a short spell on a dual-carriageway, then it was off on the sort of roads that GS's are best on. After trying the various settings I thought that comfort was probably the best all-round compromise between ride and handling.

As the bike was on Tourances (or similar), I expected that it would ride/handle better than my GSA with TKC's and Ohlins: It didn't.

I hated the riding position, it's on rather than in. I felt I was perched on top of it, much closer to the bars (the seat was on the lowest setting) but the further forward seating did make the screen feel more effective.

The clocks are too fussy and not very clear (too many functions crammed into too small a space) plus they are too low; it's a real difference between the 1200 and the 1150 - you have to make the effort to look down on the 1200 whereas the clocks are always in sight on the older machine.

Gearbox: For all the much vaunted improvements it felt no better than the older one albeit it was as good with only 2,500 miles on it whereas mine took about 15,000 miles to smooth-out. I can see how that might attract some new-to-BMW riders not prepared to persevere.

All-in-all, I can see how and why it sells, maybe even how it converts people to the Boxer but I came away thinking that the Twin Cam 1200 is a little bit wasted in a GS. That engine in an R1200R must make it a lovely A-road bike and it's what might one-day persuade me but the 1200Adv is not really an alternative to a good 1150GSA (unless you don't own one).

 

[ianran]

You mentioned the seating position, I have noticed on the ones ive ridden theyve had the bars down low in a sort of flat tracker position. I wonder if this is a deliberate ploy to attract people from pocket rockets etc?

 

[MikeP]

You mentioned the seating position, I have noticed on the ones ive ridden theyve had the bars down low in a sort of flat tracker position. I wonder if this is a deliberate ploy to attract people from pocket rockets etc?

I dunno but after about fifty miles it gave me a slight ache in my shoulders. Possibly just a case of me not being used to the different position, one that time and familiarity would solve.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I took my GSA in to Ocean for its MoT today and was told that they were expecting a triple-black 1200 Adv in any moment (whenever they mentioned a new 1200 to me, I always said that none of them are black enough for me).

I was offered their 1200 Twin Cam so with nothing else to do went for a ride.

There are some nice things; the extra power is nice but not really necessary, the exhaust note is nice, fruity without being intrusive. The brakes are nice in, no better in operation than the last version of Servo-ABS, just less complicated.

The ESA seems pretty pointless. I rode a short spell on a dual-carriageway, then it was off on the sort of roads that GS's are best on. After trying the various settings I thought that comfort was probably the best all-round compromise between ride and handling.

As the bike was on Tourances (or similar), I expected that it would ride/handle better than my GSA with TKC's and Ohlins: It didn't.

I hated the riding position, it's on rather than in. I felt I was perched on top of it, much closer to the bars (the seat was on the lowest setting) but the further forward seating did make the screen feel more effective.

The clocks are too fussy and not very clear (too many functions crammed into too small a space) plus they are too low; it's a real difference between the 1200 and the 1150 - you have to make the effort to look down on the 1200 whereas the clocks are always in sight on the older machine.

Gearbox: For all the much vaunted improvements it felt no better than the older one albeit it was as good with only 2,500 miles on it whereas mine took about 15,000 miles to smooth-out. I can see how that might attract some new-to-BMW riders not prepared to persevere.

All-in-all, I can see how and why it sells, maybe even how it converts people to the Boxer but I came away thinking that the Twin Cam 1200 is a little bit wasted in a GS. That engine in an R1200R must make it a lovely A-road bike and it's what might one-day persuade me but the 1200Adv is not really an alternative to a good 1150GSA (unless you don't own one).

Good points, well made.............................no need to test ride another again

 

[shugie]

I hated the riding position, it's on rather than in. I felt I was perched on top of it, much closer to the bars (the seat was on the lowest setting) but the further forward seating did make the screen feel more effective.

I think that was what put me off the 1200 for a while, the 'in' position of the 1150 was nicer. But part of what achieved that was the socking great tank, which put a lot of weight high up. I could easily cope with a lower seat on the 1200, but for people with normal leg lengths that would be too low.

 

[Robbo1200ADV]

we're all different ,the world would be boring if we wern't. I've had the 1150 GSA and a few 1200 GSA's and the 12 is for me a much better bike. The 1150 felt no where near as planted and if not properly set up vague in the corners and vague generally compared to a 12. Heavy as well. They are both fine machines but the 12 does it for me.

 

[MikeP]

no need to test ride another again

Well in all honesty if my 1150GSA was nicked or totalled, I'd test-ride one again as a possible replacement but back-to-back with an R1200R.

I think that was what put me off the 1200 for a while, the 'in' position of the 1150 was nicer. But part of what achieved that was the socking great tank, which put a lot of weight high up.

In part I agree, the 1200 fuel tank is lower but the main thing is that the bars seem much lower and the instruments seem to be at the same height where the top-yoke on the 1150 is (I found a similar "on rather than in" thing with the 1200RT, very much like the early Pan-European).

The 1150 felt no where near as planted and if not properly set up vague in the corners and vague generally compared to a 12. Heavy as well. They are both fine machines but the 12 does it for me.

I think that the weight thing is arguable. If anything the 1200 gives an impression of being light through the bars, both in terms of the controls (the brake and clutch levers are slim, light in action and the skinny grips add to that feeling) and the feeling of the front-end but in reality there's not much in it in terms of dead-weight. Then there's the extra power to shift the weight. Coming from an 1150 it's very noticeable. I wonder if someone coming from a lighter bike would put the difference down to weight or power?

I found the 1200Adv to be lighter at the front, slow-speed steering is faster (almost to the point of me over-doing it while manoeuvring at first) and it has a greater tendency to under-steer if pushed hard.

It would be interesting to make a comparison with them both loaded-up the same.

All-in-all, a good bike. Possibly a very good bike but not good enough to tempt me.

 

[2 wheel humvee]

Interesting points, my 09 12ADV is in dock for it's 12k service today so I have the dealer's 12ADV twincam demo bike, I've put around 100 miles on it this morning, my impressions are;
I like the increased shove in the lower revs, very tractable and a lot less snatchy around town,
I also like the exhaust note, as has been said it's rorty but not offensive,
I am also not fussed on the new R.I.D. not least because I was looking for it in the wrong place out of habit but there is also a lot of information to display so fuel guage/temp/gear pos. indicator are smaller or have changed position but I'm sure I would get used to it,
chassis wise there is little to report over my 09 bike which is a plus for me as I like the way it rides/handles/steers etc.
It may be a result of the smoother engine but I feel the twin cam felt less busy at higher motorway speeds
My own bike is fitted with (de-cat) Remus headers so the extra claimed 5bhp of the twin cam engine wasn't at all noticeable to me, in fact I'd say thus equipped my own bike is more lively from 5k revs upward
My dealership (Riders Cardiff) also had a Triple Black ADV in the showroom and very nice it looked too, apparently equipped with BMW's latest "dynamic ride" version of the ESA suspension, sounds like thaqt will be expensive if it ever goes wrong (eh Rasher...... )
Overall I enjoyed the twin cam, all I have to do now is not look in the direction of the Triple Black when I return to collect my bike this afternoon.
I cannot really comment or make a comparison between a 1150 ADV and 1200ADV as I swapped from 1150 to my first 1200 6 years ago other than I do recall it took me a while to "gel" with the 1200's lighter and nimbler handling.

 

[(RIP) Tunneruk]

I've only ever owned one GS, A brand new 57 plate GSA which I gave up a lot in order to own. I loved every one of the 23,000 miles I did on it in the two years that I owned it. There are two words that made me sell it and two words that explain why I'd never own another one.

Final drive.

A friend of mine has a 2003 1150 GSA with 112k on the clock and it's not given him a single moments trouble, so reliable is it that it's still got the original bulbs in it!!
I spend £13k on a bike that I thought was going to last 100k miles just like my friends .......... sadly that's not what I got ............

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I've only ever owned one GS, A brand new 57 plate GSA which I gave up a lot in order to own. I loved every one of the 23,000 miles I did on it in the two years that I owned it. There are two words that made me sell it and two words that explain why I'd never own another one.

Final drive.

A friend of mine has a 2003 1150 GSA with 112k on the clock and it's not given him a single moments trouble, so reliable is it that it's still got the original bulbs in it!!
I spend £13k on a bike that I thought was going to last 100k miles just like my friends .......... sadly that's not what I got ............

Shame................... +1, when I had a 12GSA - I always had that niggling feeling of 'when' it was going to go wrong, not 'if '

 

[2 wheel humvee]

Shame................... +1, when I had a 12GSA - I always had that niggling feeling of 'when' it was going to go wrong, not 'if '

Rasher?

Is that you?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Rasher?

Is that you?

Nope..................he's got own worries

I love the new TwinCam, but the price is ridiculous and there are still mechanical 'issues'..................shame, it's a lovely bike

 

[2 wheel humvee]

You mentioned the seating position, I have noticed on the ones ive ridden theyve had the bars down low in a sort of flat tracker position. I wonder if this is a deliberate ploy to attract people from pocket rockets etc?

Most GS' handlebars seem to be set up this way from new (the twin cam demo bike I have at the moment is set up this way) first thing I did was rotate the bars up a little which helped-a little, then I fitted up and back risers which helped a little more (for me) but haven't totally cured the issue for me, there appears to be a lot of "sweep back" on this particular handlebar design

I dunno but after about fifty miles it gave me a slight ache in my shoulders. Possibly just a case of me not being used to the different position, one that time and familiarity would solve.

See above, the low setting of the bars from new and the amount of sweep back of this particular handlebar has been discussed before.

 

[forest biker]

Nope..................he's got own worries

I love the new TwinCam, but the price is ridiculous and there are still mechanical 'issues'..................shame, it's a lovely bike

Thats spot on jb , and what i have been thinking and stopping me buying one at the minute and then i think stuff it i'll have one

 

[Wrinkly]

I love the new TwinCam, but the price is ridiculous and there are still mechanical 'issues'..................shame, it's a lovely bike

Done 300mls on my new DOHC since picking it up on Wednesday,Loving it,it feels so very different but the same if you know what I mean,super smooth,even the gearbox.

As for price, £607 less than I paid for a new 1200gs in 09, albeit i took a further £533 discount rather than have £800 worth of exras.

As for mechanical issues,the warrenty is extendable so If I don't swap it after 2yrs I'll just extend the warrenty.

I did say it would most probabley be my last new bike,but if the water cooled model is better than this then who knows

Steve

 

[Devon]

I came away thinking that the Twin Cam 1200 is a little bit wasted in a GS. That engine in an R1200R must make it a lovely A-road bike and it's what might one-day persuade me.

Mike, in your opinion, why is a R1200R superior to the R1200GS as an A-road bike?

 

[MikeP]

Mike, in your opinion, why is a R1200R superior to the R1200GS as an A-road bike?

I didn't say it is superior, just that the Twin-Cam engine would suit the R1200R.

 

[Devon]

I came away thinking that the Twin Cam 1200 is a little bit wasted in a GS. That engine in an R1200R must make it a lovely A-road bike and it's what might one-day persuade me.

I didn't say it is superior, just that the Twin-Cam engine would suit the R1200R.

By stating that the Twin Cam is a little bit 'wasted' in the GS and you would only be tempted by a 1200 in R form I assumed you had tested the R against the GS and concluded the R was the better bike, at least for A-roads? The R1200GS is only 5kg heavier than the R1200R with a better riding position and reasonably weather protection from the screen, so I can't see how the engine is 'wasted' in the GS but not the R? Unless you are a troll in the 1200 section of a GS forum

I have owned owned three R1200GS over nearly 7yrs and, imho, it is one of the best motorbikes money can buy. I sold my R1200GS SE over a year ago because I wanted something different. The bad news for me is there isn't really anything out there that would part me from my hard earned, other than the standard 1200GS (the GSA is too lardy and over the top for me). I am still tempted to buy a basic, no extras except heated grips, 1200GS.

 

[MikeP]

By stating that the Twin Cam is a little bit 'wasted' in the GS and you would only be tempted by a 1200 in R form I assumed you had tested the R against the GS and concluded the R was the better bike, at least for A-roads? The R1200GS is only 5kg heavier than the R1200R with a better riding position and reasonably weather protection from the screen, so I can't see how the engine is 'wasted' in the GS but not the R? Unless you are a troll in the 1200 section of a GS forum

It's an opinion. It's my opinion that the 1200 motor is wasted in a GS. I'm prepared to go into details if you wish but as you have a contrary opinion, one that I have no problem with you holding and one that I doubt that you'd alter, I won't waste bandwidth or your time.

If I was trolling, I'd have been somewhat less complimentary about the bike. I'm at a loss to see why you think that my post was trolling, unless you think that anyone who holds an opinion that conflicts with your own and has the temerity to make it public equals a troll?

I have owned owned three R1200GS over nearly 7yrs and, imho, it is one of the best motorbikes money can buy. I sold my R1200GS SE over a year ago because I wanted something different. The bad news for me is there isn't really anything out there that would part me from my hard earned, other than the standard 1200GS (the GSA is too lardy and over the top for me). I am still tempted to buy a basic, no extras except heated grips, 1200GS.

Good for you. I respect your right to hold an opinion and to tell everyone what it is. Have a round of applause.

BTW, I don't recall saying that the only R1200 that might tempt me is the 1200R (I said that a 1200R might one day persuade me).

 

[(RIP) Johno23]

Back to the old 1150 v 1200 argument eh?
Well i thought i'd put in my 2p worth too, as In my garage I have one of each and regularly ride them back to back which hugely highlights the differences!

Leaving the argument of reliability out for now,(will return to it later) I would have to say both are great blkes.However the 1200 is without any doubt the better motorcycle as regards day to day riding. It's weight advantage the fact the weight is lower gives better handling and manoeuvrability, the engine has just a little more oomph and is a little smoother. The brakes are imo better or certainly give better feel, I think the gearbox although only a little smoother certainly has better ratios and the protection from the std screen is certainly not great on the 1200 but is far better than the 1150 although both can be improved with a little effort on the 1200 and a great deal of effort on the 1150.
All in all the 1200 is as you'd expect from any later model produced by any manufacturer of any vehicle, an improvement on it's predecessor. I don't know of many manufacturers who produce worse next generation cars/bikes especially a company like BMW.A great many 1150 owners do have this emotional connection to what is a fantastic bike but are perhaps a little blind to the obvious improvements in the 1200.
With regard to reliability the main issue in the 1200 is without doubt the FD which is not really acceptable for a bike like the 1200. Talking to Mike at Cardiff Motorrad the other day he did say that the bearing on the 1200 usually lasts on average about 25k on the 1200 where as on the 1150 he would expect them to last nearer 40k-50k, and the 1150 bearing is also cheaper to change. I do feel whatever bike you have you wouldn't be dissapointed with either, I love them both