Tyred and confused

[Big-G]

If you are going for sports touring tyre rather than GS specific type tyres .. have you considered the Bridgestone Battlax 023s?

Or the Conti ROAD attacks?

Or Pilot Road 2s or 3s from Michellin?

OR the Avons?

Argh. Don't do it to me !!!

 

[red line]

I agree, in that in my experience (GSA & 1200RT) the Dunlops are an excellent choice, although I now run Conti Road Attacks & am delighted with them.

As was said above, all the main players make damn good tyres.

love my Road Attack 2's

 

[GSband]

I'm considering Roadsmarts myself to replace my very square Battlewings. What kind of mileage do you get from these? I don't mind forgoing a bit of mileage if the grip is that much better.
Thanks

Hi,
I'm getting some 6000miles/10000km on Roadsmarts. I always change front and rear at the same time. Have a great ride !

 

[snerkler]

I'm more interested in grip than mileage, so what follows is only about grip.

- Tourance and Trail Attack. What bothers me is the negative thread pattern in blocks. These tend to wear uneven, so that the tyre loses grip as it does more miles. This can then lead to wobbly behaviour on lean. Just as an example :

- Anakee has a longitudal negative thread pattern, with the same result from new, esp. when loaded : wobbly on angle.

- Battlewing doesn't have these blocks, and is an excellent performer as far as grip goes, but it has problems in the wet.

- Tourance EXP : block pattern, but since the compound is softer (= best grip), it wears more even. Of all GS tyres my personal favourite.

The advantage of larger grooves on GS tyres is that it takes more time for them to fill up with mud/sand. If I'd really need to buy GS tyres, I'd buy Tourance EXP again, because of the excellent grip. I would definitely NOT buy Tourance, Anakee, Battlewing, Trail Attack.

The description of typical GS tyres is usually something like '80% road, 20% off road'. This indicates that they're close to 100% road tyres. The typical GS tyre is NOT suited for real off roading anyway, you'd need wobblies. The question then is : how close are road tyres to GS tyres ?

Last year I drove into a wood on EXP, hoping to bypass some roadworks. To my surprise I was followed by 3 non trail bikes that aren't supposed to go off road, on specific road tyres. One of them a Triumph 1150 Sprint. They coped well in these circumstances. The trail through the wood got worse and worse. Every time I thought 'surely they'll stop here', they were still right behind me. This made me realise that road tyres can do more than expected.

So I decided to buy road tyres. I was fed up with the uneven wear and loss of grip on GS tyres. I bought Dunlop Roadsmarts. They outperform the typical GS tyres on tarmac, have amazing grip anytime, dry or wet, and are far more comfortable. I'm on my third set now, and I'll stick with them till something better comes along.

But that's just what I decided I want from my tyres. There are so many considerations : high mileage is one of them, and another seems to be the 'look' on a GS.

To each their own .
Cheers !

Very interesting this, thanks. I have EXP's on my GSA and have been perfectly happy with them, but then these are the only tyres I've had on it so have nothing to compare them to.
What do you mean by negative tread pattern?
Am I right in thinking that Tourances with last longer than EXP's, but EXP's will have more grip? If so how much longer could one expect tourances to last?
Is there a general concensus as to which road only tyres will last the longest?

 

[GSband]

Very interesting this, thanks. I have EXP's on my GSA and have been perfectly happy with them, but then these are the only tyres I've had on it so have nothing to compare them to.
What do you mean by negative tread pattern?
Am I right in thinking that Tourances with last longer than EXP's, but EXP's will have more grip? If so how much longer could one expect tourances to last?
Is there a general concensus as to which road only tyres will last the longest?

Negative thread pattern are the grooves that are cut into the rubber.

First there's the width. If the grooves are wide, there's less rubber, and less grip, that's logical. But the wider grooves of a typical GS tyre are there because they take longer to fill up with sand/mud etc. With road tyres the grooves are there just to get rid of water. Since these grooves are relatively small, there's more grip (assuming same compound).

Then there's the pattern, the way the grooves are cut. Have a look and you'll see the difference. Anakee has longitudal grooves (creating a wobble each time you cross this groove on angle), Tourance and Trail Attack has blocks (these will wear unevenly), Battlewing has 'cross' lines. Looking at these patterns, it seems logical that Battlewing will have best grip on angle (assuming same compound). Because of the compound I preferred EXP.

You are right, Tourances outlast Tourance EXP, Tourance could do up to 40% more than EXP, I drove Tourance EXP 10000km, Tourance 14000km. If you want more grip the trade off is mileage. EXP has better grip and will improve handling on a GS so I had multiple sets of EXP. The only road tyres I've tried on GS is Roadsmart (which will improve handling / grip considerably compared to EXP), so I can't give info on mileage for other road tyres.

Cheers !

 

[snerkler]

Negative thread pattern are the grooves that are cut into the rubber.

First there's the width. If the grooves are wide, there's less rubber, and less grip, that's logical. But the wider grooves of a typical GS tyre are there because they take longer to fill up with sand/mud etc. With road tyres the grooves are there just to get rid of water. Since these grooves are relatively small, there's more grip (assuming same compound).

Then there's the pattern, the way the grooves are cut. Have a look and you'll see the difference. Anakee has longitudal grooves (creating a wobble each time you cross this groove on angle), Tourance and Trail Attack has blocks (these will wear unevenly), Battlewing has 'cross' lines. Looking at these patterns, it seems logical that Battlewing will have best grip on angle (assuming same compound). Because of the compound I preferred EXP.

You are right, Tourances outlast Tourance EXP, Tourance could do up to 40% more than EXP, I drove Tourance EXP 10000km, Tourance 14000km. If you want more grip the trade off is mileage. EXP has better grip and will improve handling on a GS so I had multiple sets of EXP. The only road tyres I've tried on GS is Roadsmart (which will improve handling / grip considerably compared to EXP), so I can't give info on mileage for other road tyres.

Cheers !

Thanks again. Just to clarify negative tread is the tyre not in contact with the road, ie where the grooves are? So the wider the grooves the larger the negative tread?

 

[snerkler]

GSband, as you seem quite knowledgeable regarding tyres I don't know if you'd care to share some of your knowledge as I'd be quite interested to know and I'm sure others would be to? I think we all know that softer compound mean more grip, but more wear, and that the wider the grooves the more water and mud they can shift. But what I don't know is how the actual tread patterns affect handling in terms of grip, wobble (especially when leaning over), noise etc. Would you be willing to give a brief explanation on the different tyres below? It would be greatly appreciated by me, and I'm sure many others

Metzeler Tourance

Metzeler Tourance EXP

Conti Trail Attack

Conti Road Attack

Michelin Annekee 2

Bridgestone Battlewings

Dunlop Roadsmarts

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Metzeler Tourance

I like these, they're black and round and grip well in rain or sun..................apart from that I couldn't care less

 

[The Nutter]

Hi,
I'm getting some 6000miles/10000km on Roadsmarts. I always change front and rear at the same time. Have a great ride !

Thanks. I've got an upcoming trip to the Alps and I'm hoping the Roadsmarts are the tyre for the job. I get 7000 from my Battlewings (rear) and always change as a pair. Losing a bit of mileage for better grip (especially for this trip) will be worth it.

 

[GSband]

Thanks for the compliment, but you're giving me more credit than I deserve. I'm talking from experience, and some study. I like to understand why a tyre behaves in a specific way, that's all. I'm going to repeat myself, but here goes.

I started riding R12GS on Anakee : have a look at the pattern, you'll see the longitudal lines. Unfortunately, they're on the shoulder, so when you cross this line on lean, you'll get a wobble, from new (duh), and even worse when loaded. Anakee gives high mileage. From Anakee I to Anakee II the compound has changed, but I was surprised that Michelin decided to keep the same pattern, since the pattern bothered me. I have never driven Anakee II. After Anakee I went on to Battlewing.

Battlewing : since the thread pattern has transverse or cross lines, going from straight to lean means you're not crossing any lines in the pattern, so from all typical GS tyres this one should give great adherence. And actually, this is a great tyre in dry. You can accelerate hard on angle, and the tyre stays where it should be, there's no jumping around on grooves. Unfortunately there's something wrong with the compound, so Battlewing can behave strange in wet conditions. I had 3 sets of these, they didnt give high mileage.

My second R12GS came on Tourance : after Battlewing a disappointment as far as handling is concerned. Tourance is designed for great stability, but after Battlewing it seemed I had to 'push' the bike into curves. Very relative, of course. If you look at Tourance pattern, you'll see it consists of blocks. This tyre has a relatively hard compound, ideal for high mileage. The problem is that with increasing mileage this tyre 'squares off', which means that some centre blocks will get higher than the shoulder (see my picture of Traillattack above), which leads to loss of adherence when going into lean. You can actually feel the rear tyre sliding when on lean, esp. when accelerating. It was clear from the disappointing handling that I would not ride Tourance again.

Then came along Trail Attack. As manufacturers tried to combine high mileage with grip, they came up with the idea of combining a hard centre compound with a softer shoulder compound. Sounded exactly what I was looking for ! But the difference in grip in these tyre zones led my Trail Attack to slide around on different occasions, without apparant reason (no slippery road for instance). And, because of the soft shoulder, I got the same problem as with Tourance that the centre blocks got higher than the shoulder zones, but even more so because of the difference in compound(see picture in my post above). That resulted in loss of adherence on lean. Trail Attack gives high mileage, though.
After I sprained my ancle trying to save the bike from falling when it slid away on a roundabout, I decided not to buy TA again. 1 set was enough.

So, after Trail Attack I wanted a 'no-nonsense grip tyre', to hell with mileage. At that time Metzeler introduced the Tourance EXP, where they gave up some of the mileage of the standard Tourance in order to provide more grip (and without doubt to sell more tyres), using a softer compound, and using a mixture that gives great adherence in the wet (actually outperforms Tourance in wet and dry). At the Köln Bike fair the Tourance was promoted as 'Tour' tyre, the EXP as 'Sport' tyre. At the same time they changed the front tyre's carcas, which makes the front tyre handle better, some even dislike this 'nervousness'. The EXP also has a block pattern, but because of the softer compound, it doesn't square off as much. Of all typical GS tyres this was my favourite : excellent grip in dry and wet, and I like the front tyres' nervousness, the bike becomes very 'flickable'. I had 4 sets of these.
Of all the tyres i've had on R12GS, this is the only front tyre that wears faster than its' rear. BTW in the German Magazine Motorrad (11/2008) this tyre came best in grip in wet and dry, but lost overall to Trail Attack because of mileage.

After the 'riding through the wood with a sports bike behind me' experience I decided to go for 100% road tyre. I decided that in tyres there's only one thing that's important to me : grip, grip, grip ! Apart from touring, I like to ride on the limit from time to time, and want my tyre to 'stick with me', or better : outperform me ! But even for those who do not have a lively style, even for riders who drive calmly, it's always good to have a reserve in grip. If not for accelerating, cornering, or in wet weather, then at least for braking.

Since Michelin had decided not to sell Pilot Road II in GS sizes (BIIIIIIIIIG mistake), and Roadsmart got raving revues, I went for these. Have a look at the pattern. No block pattern here, no longitudinal grooves, so no probs when going into lean. The grooves are finer, since they're only there to get rid of water. This implies more rubber on the road, which should give more adherence. Finally the compound is soft enough to give grip, and the mixture does well in the wet. And if that's not enough, it's actually fun to ride on these : very flickable, and when on lean, I can feel the rear tyre sticking to the road, there's no 'jumping around'. I'm on my third set, and have found my favourite tyre. For now, anyway .

There are other 100% road tyres out there for R12GS, but I can't comment on those. Since I was not happy with the difference in compound on Trail Attack, I didn't feel like trying Road Attack. Once bitten, ... Since Michelin has put the price of its' PR III at a considerable distance from Road Smart, I'm waiting for revues on PR III, preferably from someone who has driven both. Only if PR III is considerably better will I try these.

Since I've started riding an R12GS, my search has been for the tyre that gives me most grip, in wet and dry, and handles best, untill it is worn. I don't care for mileage (within reason), and I don't care for looks. I hardly go off road, and when I do, not on terrain where I need typical GS tyres or wobblies. You may have different requirements. The above is my experience, and the theory seems to back me up. Others will have different opinions, experiences, preferred tyres, and I accept that.

Cheers!

 

[Rasher]

Great write-up, thanks. My views are;

Battlewing = Felt Horrible
Tourance EXP = Pretty Good
Roadsmart = Much Better

See also:

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245150

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260681

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245662

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I'll be devil's advocate here because I think there is a lot of hocum talked about tyres on a GS. Lets get the the basics of the GS here and it's a big heavy bike which handles pretty well given it's size and it's a not a race prepped Fireblade.

My experience of 65k on my 1200ADV is that there is precious little difference in whichever tyre you choose. Some last longer than other's and some are maybe a tad grippier but it's hard to tell given the state of our roads

I think I've tried most of the dual sport type tyres at one time or another from EXP's to TKC's and there isn't a lot of difference. OK, TKC's can be a bit skitty in the damp but never ever a real problem and suprisingly good life and worn Tourances don't like crossing white lines. Anyway, I don't mind the bike moving about a bit.

Currently have a Tourance on the front and a Trail Wing on the back and I haven't noticed any change in handling. Bear in mind, these tyres were bought 2nd hand of members of this parish because I'm a tight wad and they are fine

Round and black and correct pressure is my advice

 

[g.s.john]

Got Anakee 2s on mine and boy what a mistake....great grip in dry and wet..not bad on the gravel BUT the noisiest tyre I have ever had. At the risk of being in the wrong place ..if anyone wants some nearly new Anakee 2s (some on here swear by them) with under 300 miles on them then they can have them for £100 as they will be coming off before my big trip at end of May.

p.m'ed ya

 

[snerkler]

Thanks for the compliment...........................................................

Thanks your taking the time out to explain all the differences in tyres, very much appreciated