Vern's pannier 'leak' debunked......

[Fanum]

I've had a pair of big black Vern's panniers for the last few weeks for Lands End and the East Europe trip....(the panniers are big and black...not Vern)

Mike...I've seen your comments on yours leaking and I think I might have sussed out what's happening......

I had a few days where i found water in the LH pannier.......on one particular day in POland it was hot and muggy but there was absiolutely no rain or surface water.

I'd dried all water from the inside of the box before we set off, but when we parked up later and i looked in the box, there was a good few teaspoons worth of water trapped in the lip of the lid.

Looking at the inside of the lid, there was heavy condensation towards the front end of the thing.

There was no water source in the box (camelback was on my back so that wasn't leaking) and although i thought everything in the pannier was dry, the water in the lid had come from the air in the box and water dampness was in my clothes.......the exhaust heats up the air in the box and this absorbs any moisture from anything even slightly damp......then the air flow hitting the top front corner of the box causes it to condense in the lid and trickle down into that lip.

In Poland I was amazed how much water had appeared......but it was the only possible answer for where it came from......then on the final day i had a very wet (could wring it out wet) windstopper neck thing and a wet pair of gloves in the left pannier......800 miles later, both the gloves and the neck thing were bone dry but there was so much water in the lid lip that when i opened it, i got a good old gush out onto the floor and into the box as it all ran forwards.

So Mike, I don't think your panniers are leaking...they're just an unintentionally effective condensation trap.......

 

[MikeO]

How does my right pannier also leak then? Why have I not had this condensation problem on either the Zegas or Jesse's?

My boxes are definitely leaking. The last occasion, when I'd only been in the rain for an hour before unpacking, the wet patches on the liner bags matched exactly with the rear catch mounting plates.

I'm pleased that your boxes are watertight Bill - but mine are not - if you'd lived with these boxes for 3 1/2 months and 20k miles in the weather conditions I'd been travelling in (& for which they have been designed) you would come to the same conclusion, I assure you...

Mike

 

[Fanum]

Mike..I did have a little condensation on the other pannier.......I can only think that the differential between the air-cooled top part of the box and the fat-git shielded lower part caused it....it's not been as severe as the exhaust side but i opened the pannier immediately on stopping and the beads of condensation were definately there.

As for why others don't do it, TBH i have no idea......BHT's panniers didnt do the same thing as mine though we rode the same roads in the same conditions...and he has a rorty exhaust as well......



Just an idea......

 

[Madmountainman]

Mike, if you're that miffed with your pannier's performance, post em back to Belchie for him to use and make the most of being in the US and buy something different whilst you can get em cheap!

 

[(RIP) willstatt]

LeakY

Mine initially suffered a bit with condensation, especially if there were damp items inside as Fanum found. However, I then lined the boxes with corrugated card, to stop the contents rattling and the boxes from getting dented from the inside. Hey presto, no more condensation.

I don't doubt that yours are leaking though Mike. I'm sure you can tell the difference between Condensation and leaks. There are only the four mounting holes and the latch plate that could leak though aren't there? Wouldn't silicone solve it, or a rubber washer or two.

I went through unbelievable rain storms with mine and not a single leak.

My standard BM plastic ones used to leak if I'd been going fast in wet weather.

Will

 

[MikeO]

1. Condensation. I've had over a half a pint of water in the bottom of the pannier in the morning - this isn't condensation - it's a leak (Although, even if it was, the bottom line is - did your kit stay dry??)

2. I have, strangely enough, tried very hard to waterproof these panniers, wiith limited success - the mounting plates & lock plates are liberally coated with sealant. The fitting of O rings in the design/manufacture stage could have precluded the need for this (witness my completely waterproof Zegas & Jesses). It would also make them readily de-mountable - something I can't do unless I want to start the sealing process over from scratch.

3. Sending them back. I've packed on the basis of the carrying capacity I have at present and cannot reasonably decrease this (at this stage) to revert to the smaller capacity Jesse Odesseys - believe me I have seriously considered doing so.

Whereas I'm impressed with your brand loyalty, consider the experience I've had with these boxes - They were delivered late, so I couldn't test them (which would've revealed the heat problem, and avoided hundreds of pounds of damage to the kit they were meant to protect), they torched my kit the first time I used them and they've leaked consistently. What would be your reaction if I was talking about any other make of pannier? If yours work for the use you put them to, then I'm happy for you - mine don't - they were a bad buy. I look upon it a bit like poor old Maverick's GS - mine has been fine - that doesn't mean they all are...

Mike

 

[DavidHolmes]

3. Sending them back. I've packed on the basis of the carrying capacity I have at present and cannot reasonably decrease this (at this stage) to revert to the smaller capacity Jesse Odesseys - believe me I have seriously considered doing so.

Mike

Mike. What else are you using to carry? I have used the Jesses (two up) with a Givi 52litre top box, and two Otlieb dry sacks (one roll bag at 50l and one sack at 60l) strapped to the tops of the panniers.

Even if the Otliebs are rejected on the grounds of security, surely a decent sized top box would compensate for storage (even if you would have to repack to ensure that only bulky but light items went into the top box).

 

[MikeO]

David,

The horse has bolted. I've just about got the water leaks hacked now, and the heat problem was cured after the pipe work on the first day. For the several hundred pounds it would now cost to bolt the stable door, I can travel for some time.

These are not bad panniers, they just have design flaws - once you've done the work to waterproof & heat proof them, they work OK - especially the right one, which Vern put a 'holster' for my laptop in - one thing that is far superior to either of the other options I've tried. The journey to this point has been an expensive one, though...

Will,

I just counted over 30 bolt holes in each pannier* - go & check...

Mike

*I have a few extra in the RH one for my laptop mount...

 

[(RIP) willstatt]

Can't count

Oh yes, I was forgetting all the hinge holes etc!

Sounds like you were just unlucky.... maybe you have Vern's version of a 'Friday afternoon' set?

I think you're right about our brand loyalty to Vern, particularly those that got a set of the discounted Pre-production run, because there is no doubting in my mind that they are fantastic value for money when you consider the build quality. That of course is little consolation to you with the troubles you've had.

I had the heat problem myself, but that was as much the alignment of my Remus as it was the panniers. But I did have to put my metal dinner plate against the inside of the pannier to protect my stuff from the heat. Have since fixed an ally deflector to the Pannier frames, and that works perfectly. The Remus would have heated up other panniers too.

Anyway, sounds like you've sorted it now... and I'm sure Vern would consider some warranty work if yours are faulty!

Hope trip going well.

Will

 

[BAKERMAN]

Mike O you JESSE, for GODS SAKE man get over it,

















get Ricardo to just fit one of these.

 

[judge]

 

[Fanum]

Mike.....get yourself along to a chandlers that does bits for dinghies.......on my old fireball I had some very small non-return drain flap things that would probably be ideal for the panniers....totally waterproof one way but quick draining the other.

Dunno if that helps but it might be worth a go, and particularly if you're with Mr Suave

 

[Steve]

get Ricardo to just fit one of these.

After seeing Vern baling out his "beer-cooler" at Lands End, this could well be an optional extra on the next batch of panniers