Vibration again.

[oldnfat]

Keep telling yawl.....standard headers & AF XIED units that make the AFR richer is the way to go....smooths out the bike considerably, more punch, easier to ride in town. Bike uses less oil and the exhaust stay nice and shiny for longer....and you can remove the. When you sell the bike and take them to your next One.

 

[Bendy toy]

Sorry to hear of your vibe woes.

It's such an individual thing vibies it seems.

For me it's the high frequency 4 cylinder stuff that got to me and made me hands go dead after a long ride, ditto modernish parallel twins and even the fabled, super smooth triples.

The CBR 600 was super smooth but I couldn't live with the riding position. Yamaha 600 Diversion cheap but nasty and very rough. Got rid of after 4 months. MZ 250 surprisingly good. That rubber engine mount that allows the engine to rock on its rear mount really does work. But it's otherwise a miserable thing to ride any distance.

Back in my young days the only smooth bike was a Kawasaki Z400 twin. The balance shafts worked though it was otherwise pretty dull. Honda XL250 obviously vibrated and Triton 500 was like a jack hammer. RS 250 that did have balance shafts was ok. As was the 400 Superdream (when it wasn't broken down).

More modern Boxers have been a delight from that point of view to me at least, the duff duff duff at low revs is fine, mine at least have been smooth as butter in what I'd call the practical riding rev range although if you rag 'em (to no great speed advantage mind) they can be rougher and tingly but frankly who buys an oilhead boxer twin and revs it without mercy, what would be the point?

After I got over the new bike rush, the low down power was really disappointing in OEM trim. But with power commander the low speed duff duff is great and the harsh vibes and lack pf power in the 4K to 5K flat spot are much better. Up to 70 it's very smooth but keep up with motorway traffic and it's into that uncomfortable range.

Apologies if it's been asked before but what bikes don't or haven't given you the problem? Given that sensitivities and underlying conditions, occasionally caused by many years of other occupational related activity, or just bike riding in general, can excacerbate any physical sensitivities.

My previous bike was a 900 Yamaha Diversion. The 2x rpm tingle was terrible. I couldn't afford to get rid so tried Rox anti vibe risers and they did a great job. The problem on that (and most Japanese bikes) is the awful screen. Wind blast and turbulence builds the anterior neck and pecs leading to TOS. The BMW with Givi AF330 screen has solved that.

Has anyone else had a go and pronounced it unusually vibey?

Others have no comments. My brother has a similar model which feels tight whereas mine spins. Mine does buzz a bit more but its not enough for him to complain. [/quote]

You appear to be extremely sensitive to this type of vibration for reasons so far unknown or have some mechanical issue(s).

There is some arthritic change (early stages began in late 1990s. Noticed after a heavy weights gym session. The old TOS (aggravated by the Yam 900) has pretty much gone and that's different symptoms.

Frankly, I think pissing around with the handle bars will do little, if any good.

I used the bike without any bar end weights and vibration was more spiky. I was hoping more bar end weight could be better still. So far, it's not.
The exercise has involved some pissing about but really no great loss.
For what it will cost, I will cast lead into the new weights but don't expect anything much.


Sent somehow.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Very interesting. I wonder how to check the timing without taking off the timing cover. Its a 2008 (single cam).

Saying that, it pulls like a train (with PC-V). I nearly S**t myself the first time I pinned it in 3rd it was so quick. Misaligned timing would surely affect performance but worth a look certainly. Sort of on that subject the tappet clearances are correct.

BTW, it originally came from Surrey.

Dave

Dave,
Although the PC-V adds fuel, you have lost the BMSK adaptation feature. And auto tune is not a solution. The BMSK has a very powerful ability to balance left-right fueling and you have lost that. It may be that your injectors now have different spray patterns or flow rates, and your BMSK has lost its ability to "fix" that problem.

You could try cleaning or testing your injectors. You could also try disconnect the PCV, resetting adaptive values, and riding for several tanks of gas to rebuild the long term fuel trims. See how the vibration is then. If good, reattach the PCV.

If this works, as oldnfat said, you may want to try AF-XIED because it adds fuel and preserves the long term trim capability.
RB

 

[Roger 04 RT]

One other thought, you may have a bad coil(s) which has the effect of slowing the combustion flame front, effectively retarding timing and reducing power. If one coil went out, then power on that side would be reduced, setting up the possibility of vibration.

 

[Bendy toy]

Dave,
Although the PC-V adds fuel, you have lost the BMSK adaptation feature. And auto tune is not a solution. The BMSK has a very powerful ability to balance left-right fueling and you have lost that. It may be that your injectors now have different spray patterns or flow rates, and your BMSK has lost its ability to "fix" that problem.

You could try cleaning or testing your injectors. You could also try disconnect the PCV, resetting adaptive values, and riding for several tanks of gas to rebuild the long term fuel trims. See how the vibration is then. If good, reattach the PCV.

If this works, as oldnfat said, you may want to try AF-XIED because it adds fuel and preserves the long term trim capability.
RB

Thanks for this.
I took the PCV off and it ran rougher especially in the usual areas. I agree the PCV is a bodge but mine's currently set up ok.
AF-XIED or a Hilltop are on my shopping list. Budget isn't sadly.

The fuel pump was replaced recently the old one would run rough when fuel was low (RHS got stared first) but the mechanical balance was just the same. New fuel pump has sorted that issue.

Throttle balance is due for checking. Last time it smoothed pulling away and slow speed but did nothing that I could feel at motorway speeds.


Sent somehow.

 

[Bendy toy]

Out today on fast fuel then across Dartmoor and Teign Valley the bars are smoother not a huge amount but there is an improvement. I'll be casting lead into the end boxes and see what that does.


Sent somehow.

 

[Bendy toy]

That was meant to be fast "dual" (carriageway)


Sent somehow.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Thanks for this.
I took the PCV off and it ran rougher especially in the usual areas. I agree the PCV is a bodge but mine's currently set up ok.
AF-XIED or a Hilltop are on my shopping list. Budget isn't sadly.

The fuel pump was replaced recently the old one would run rough when fuel was low (RHS got stared first) but the mechanical balance was just the same. New fuel pump has sorted that issue.

Throttle balance is due for checking. Last time it smoothed pulling away and slow speed but did nothing that I could feel at motorway speeds.


Sent somehow.

When you removed the PCV did you reset the adaptive values?

Also, after removing the PCV you should ride through several tanks of gasoline to allow the adaptive values (long term trims) to be rebuilt.

After that a gs-911 recording might show similar or very different long term trims. If that was the case it might point to the problem.

When you have the vibes, if you pull in the clutch and let the bike coast, does the vibration stop?

 

[Bendy toy]

I didn't reset the adaptive values so it was a none useful test.

However the vibration is no worse than it ever was it's just that I'm sick of putting up with it.
Rox Anti Vibe risers were tried not long after I bought the bike but they helped only when near enough vertical. Lying back as I need with OEM bars they had no effect. I don't want a bike with ape hangers.
I later fitted low rise Renthal Fatbars so the Rox could be used at an angle where they can have an effect.
It's possible the stiff Renthals aggravate vibes but I'm not about to swap back just to test it.
I had a resonant vibration through the pegs before Mike replaced the back end UJ. I now have a coarse vibration through the footrests but no resonance effects. It's always there above 60 but causes no problems.
The high frequency vibes stop when coasting. Definitely engine.

The lead shot and filled bars has helped more than I originally thought. Town speeds vibration is pretty much unaffected but that's never been a problem. High speed above 4000 and especially above 5000 rpm is softer. Not hugely so a short run didn't show the change. More weight (as in solid cast lead) may well reduce it further. I'll try wrapping the bar ends with enough lead flashing to mimic the weight of solid cast end weights.





Sent somehow.

 

[comberjohn]

Do your exhaust headers have a balance pipe?
Discovered recently that's supposed to be why BMW go to the expense of putting one into the original system.
I know that I felt more vibration when I had the sport system fitted and was blaming the increase in noise. With the standard system it's really smooth for such a large twin.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

And one more question, does your PCV install include autotune and Wideband O2 sensors or are the O2 sensors just disconnected?

 

[Greenman14]

Tracer 900 engine is dead smooth.

 

[Bendy toy]

Tracer 900 engine is dead smooth.

The Yamaha 900 (basic UJM 8 valve four banger) had the usual high frequency vibes but the Rox riser pretty much stopped it getting through.

I have the Akraprovic titanium shotgun exhaust 2:1:2 with stacked cans. It has a cross pipe and tapered cones that increase the pipe bore size. I think it's intended to make each cylinder see the same effective length of pipe before the Y joint.
For a short while I had a Remus (no cross pipe) with the OEM Adv silencer.
The engine felt the same mechanically with all three though the Akra scored best on the backside dyno.
The Power Commander V is bare running open loop without O2 sensors. It's not a perfect tune but without baffles it's pretty damn close. With baffles it runs rich. The vibration is the same either way.
I've not bothered with auto tune as it would cost more than a remap and a lot more than a pair of AFs.
Without the PCV the engine has a horrible 4K to 5K flatspot with worse vibration and struggles to pull smoothly below 2,500.
The PCV gave such a step change that the bike feels better handling as well as more performance.
The plan is to fit AF-XIEDs or visit Hilltop. I've not decided which.


Sent somehow.

 

[comberjohn]

I fitted an Autotune unit. Even more cables and connectors!
The plan was to use it to tune the fueling map one side at a time. Of course, now I know a bit more about it, I realise that won't work long term, as the settings change due to wear, temp variations, etc. Didn't know the ECU did so much.
Never actually used the Autotune and sold it on.
That was the point I started to see how practical it would be to get a re map. I live in N Ireland so not as easy as some.
Then I discovered the AF-xied units and the rest is history. Remap is good, but when I have to buy the big scooter, the AF-xied units will still have some value.

 

[Bendy toy]

I'm broke so for now it's an academic choice between AF-XIED or remap. TBH I'm still leaning towards the remap as it should sort the issues at source.
But whether that really matters is another thing.
The AF certainly wins on cost.


Sent somehow.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

The PCV is adding fuel and giving you more pull but you might still have a left to right imbalance.

At the moment, the zero cost option is to disconnect the PCV and reconnect your stocks O2s. Reset the adaptive values with a gs-911 and ride for several tanks of fuel to get your left and right cylinders balanced.

Then without resetting your adaptives, disconnect your O2s and reconnect your PCV.

 

[Bendy toy]

Thanks. I'll give that a try.


Sent somehow.

 

[DeuceBG]

I'm broke so for now it's an academic choice between AF-XIED or remap. TBH I'm still leaning towards the remap as it should sort the issues at source.
But whether that really matters is another thing.
The AF certainly wins on cost.


Sent somehow.

I had to opt for the AF but I'm glad I did because they've sorted the Bike out a treat plus I can either transfer them or sell them on when the BMW goes.
Can't do either with a Remap.

 

[Bendy toy]

The PC-V (in its crude way) made a huge difference. Doing the same adaptively has to be better.
Roll on the new job.


Sent somehow.

 

[comberjohn]

What map are you using, bendy?
Might be worth looking at using their standard European map. I believe it allows for better burning fuel compared to the U.S. stuff with ethanol. I found it made the bike really smooth and flexible.
You can always save your existing mapping on your pc for uploading again if that doesn't work.