We Really are Struggling in the Peak District.

[TwoTone]

The Peak District National Park is going ahead with permanent TROs on Long Causeway and Royce Clough,there was a meeting at their HQ last Friday where their were supposed to listen to the public but their minds were made up and they took no notice of our objections.the main reason for these TROs is the relentless pressure put on them by the antis many of whom are retired and have the time to mount a concerted campaign to get their own way this is despite the fact that they are able to use 97% of the ROW network without sharing it with vehicles and 80% of it without sharing it with horses and cycles,these people are insidious like a cancer and wont rest till they get their way completely.
These are the lanes...

These are public roads and have been so for 100s of years,they have had vehicles on them for a 100 years.

Here is a plea put on the TRF forum today.

"So the PDNPA are going to put a TRO banning Recreational Mechanically Propelled Vehicles from Long Causeway and The Roych Track...............this means us

We will not be able to ride these lanes anymore ever..........and they have a list of other lanes they want to ban us from as well.....


we offered them concessions so that they could have the chance to manage the lanes for everybody.........did they do so NO.

They chose instead to Prohibit us from using them altogether

We have two choices..............1) let them get away with it ..........or do something about it.

Well we are going to do something about it. On the 24th April we put more than a 100 bikes in the Peak district offices carpark. lets see if we cannot do better than that..........I propose that we get more than a 1000 bikes into the Peak District."

So tell all your mates, all the Road Bikers, 4 x4 people to book SUNDAY 26TH AUGUST .....BANK HOLIDAY SUNDAY as we are going to have ourselves a protest such as never been seen before in a National Park.

Want do we want ..........we want management not Prohibition. and if the Authority does not listen we will keep doing it until they give in. so i have suggest we repeat it on the 9th and 23rd of September."

These people will not rest once they have closed the unsurfaced roads they already have in mind to then go for the minor surfaced roads using the pretext of tranquility or enviroment or we just look out of place ,the day will come when you will only be able to vist the National Parks on a bus or on foot,unless of course you re very rich,well connected or live there.

 

[Womble]

I couldn't make last Friday, but you can count me in on this one.

I'm glad the TRF are getting more militant and it's good to see they're far-sighted enough to bring in the 4x4 crowd and others as well.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

There is some differing views as to whether direct action is the way forward?

I'm undecided and so it seems as some other trailriders

Best of luck..................i'm now riding more and more OUTSIDE the NPA's areas

Unfortunately trailriding has 'bloomed' in popularity and only this morning I was browsing ABR mag in Smiths adn it has detailed '5 Popular' trails, 2-3 of which were in the Peaks, all plainly advertised with all, so someone buys the mag and overuses the lanes - just riding up and down for hours on end (it could happen) on a legal or unlegal bike

That would 'piss' off even the most reasonable of us

With info, comes rights and responsibilities and many people don't have these, so they just rip up the lanes because they've read it in a mag


Something needs doing, as the popular lanes are being overused

 

[Fanum]

Well we are going to do something about it. On the 24th April we put more than a 100 bikes in the Peak district offices carpark. lets see if we cannot do better than that..........I propose that we get more than a 1000 bikes into the Peak District."

So tell all your mates, all the Road Bikers, 4 x4 people to book SUNDAY 26TH AUGUST .....BANK HOLIDAY SUNDAY as we are going to have ourselves a protest such as never been seen before in a National Park.

.............................Thereby pretty much guaranteeing the closure of these lanes , permanently






FFS, we really REALLY don't do ourselves any favours, do we

Ironic really, having the TRF cementing the death of trail riding in the UK by doing such wanky things as that.

 

[Steve B]

.............................Thereby pretty much guaranteeing the closure of these lanes , permanently






FFS, we really REALLY don't do ourselves any favours, do we

Ironic really, having the TRF cementing the death of trail riding in the UK by doing such wanky things as that.

Do you have any alternative suggestions?

 

[PDiddy]

.............................Thereby pretty much guaranteeing the closure of these lanes , permanently






FFS, we really REALLY don't do ourselves any favours, do we

Ironic really, having the TRF cementing the death of trail riding in the UK by doing such wanky things as that.

Please enlighten us on what to do, because at the moment turning up to PIs and providing user evidance is getting us nowhere with new lane closures being proposed and implemented every month -

 

[FatAl]

I'm no longer in the TRF as I gave up trail riding a few years ago, I also gave up green laneing in my Landy because of the bad publicity the pastime gets, the NERC bill was the kiss of death and things will get worse. This is the thin end of the wedge, as mentioned above a day will come when motorcycles and probably cars will be prohibited from the quieter back roads as well.
I'm sorry to sound pessimistic but I don't see a solution. It seems there is a strata of our society who actually enjoy dedicating there spare time to stop folk with legitimate hobbies/sports/pastimes partaking in these activities.
This type of miserable tw*t got the speed limit lowered on windermere in effect stopping waterskiing and caused unemployment, similar muppets got the NERC bill effected, they want to ban shooting, angling and various forms of hunting. They lobby local councils and highways departments to have speed limits lowered. There was a certain individual in north yorkshire who was determined to have all the green lanes closed to vehicles in the Dales national park, the NERC bill has almost done the job for him.
I know this is a sweeping generalisation but it strikes me from personal experience that an awful lot of these killjoys seem to be of the tree huggin' middle class lefty types, Janet Street Watsername springs to mind. I wish they would feck off and get a life, and leave others to enjoy theirs.
I wish you the best of luck with the protest, I may even have a ride over if I'm not doing one of my other hobbies that could be in the firing line for a ban.

 

[Timpo]

Ironic really, having the TRF cementing the death of trail riding in the UK by doing such wanky things as that.

'The TRF'..... what all of them? Come-on Fanum, that's a bit of a sweeper of a statement, innit! And 'Wanky Things'.... what else have I missed?

I am not in favour of this direct action, but I am not saying it will seal the coffin of trail riding in UK either. If folk want to demonstrate directly legally, then that is their right to do so.

T.

 

[Fanum]

'The TRF'..... what all of them? Come-on Fanum, that's a bit of a sweeper of a statement, innit! And 'Wanky Things'.... what else have I missed?

I am not in favour of this direct action, but I am not saying it will seal the coffin of trail riding in UK either. If folk want to demonstrate directly legally, then that is their right to do so.

T.

It is of course, but if they are not capable of looking back at the media coverage of many similar mass protests, the sort of arseholes who turn up (despit being asked not to) on illegal bikes with tiny plates, loud pipes and a bad attitude, then they haven't learnt a fucking thing

Direct action (and I've always said this) in this sort of arena just creates hostility in those who were ambivalent before, and increases in in the ramblers/horsey/Nimby's camps.

I've drawn the paralell before and i think it still stands......I used to be a total supporter of the 'fathers for justice' campaign, having been directly and seriously affected by the CSA and the crappy arbitrary rules with no right of appeal etc etc, but when those wankers got dressed up in their spidermen costumes and held up the traffic, they utterly shot themselves, and MY cause, in the foot.

I'm afraid I don't really have an alternative, but I'd bet my left bollock that if all the people who have ever been on these 'mass events' had put the money they'd spent on petrol and getting there, the effort they have invested in ranting on ineffectual forums (preaching to the converted) and the time everyone has spent on the issue into a proper, considered and paid for legal challenge, political lobbying based on the MONEY that local business and areas will inevitably lose and on the RIGHTS established by custom and practice, then trail riding wouldn't be under such serious threat.

You don't change things by shouting about it and pissing people off, you change them by following the money, getting the political backing (again, following the money) and through 'Rights issues' .

1000 hooligans on small plated, rorty exhaust kitted KTMs out for a saturday laugh and not giving a toss about George and Mildred the ramblers or Tarquin and Iolanthe the horsey riders, accompanied by 100 genuinely concerned 'proper' trail riders who DO stop for horses, DO go out in their landies and fix up banks, fallen trees and so on.........what effect is that going to have?

THE WRONG ONE!!


I'm no guru, no Max Clifford, but if HE had been hired, I bet it would have been cheaper than all the money spent (wasted) on this counter-productive campaign, and we wouldn't be in this situation now

I hate to say it, but the more appeals like this for well-meaning people to go out and piss off the ramblers and horse botherers there are, the quicker trail riding in this country will become totally banned



PS I believe that (above) quite genuinely, and I'm more than happy if anyone wants to pass it on to the 'TRF', who are , in my opinion, loading up a shotgun and preparing to point it right at their own fucking feet.....and mine too, as from time to time I do enjoy a trail ride.

 

[Rasher]

Something needs doing, as the popular lanes are being overused

I think the problem is the lack of lanes.

As stated the Wankers, sorry I mean Ramblers association already have 97% of the trails stitched up, that leaves us 3%.

Outside of the Peak District there seems to be feck all in England, hence ABR posting routes in the Peak District each month - and these tend to be a pathetic couple of miles long, barely more than a 5 minute ride most of them.

With such a tiny amount of short sections of lane they are going to be over-used.

I guess it is OK for some of you to have this hobby as you have for some time, but no newbies are allowed

Perhaps more people reading about these trails and wanting to ride them may help with the defence, it is far easier to pick on a minority, maybe we wil be safer in bigger numbers

From what I understand (admittedly not much) in the last few years it has been a complete disaster for the rights of trail riders so I can't see newcomers making it much worse!

I may even join the TRF having recently joined MAG, a lot of people out there work very hard to protect our interests

Good Luck with the action

 

[Fanum]

Perhaps more people reading about these trails and wanting to ride them may help with the defence, it is far easier to pick on a minority, maybe we wil be safer in bigger numbers

Rasher, I believe there's a kernel of truth in there that could, if used intelligently by the TRF and their ilk (who I'm not doubting for one second are good chaps and sincerely dedicated to the 'cause') could use.

What SHOULD be highlighted, campaigned on and emphasised is the amount of GOOD that 4x4 and bike riders do in the countryside...at the moment, the NIMBYs, horse bothers and ramblers just go on and on about damage and anti social behaviour....this will (again, in my not so humble opinion) be reinforced and corroborated by a 'mass action' type event.

Instead, we should be out fixing routes up, for ALL OF US, ramblers, trail riders, 4x4 nuts. horse bothers and nimbys alike.......I know for a fact that people like Timpo carry shovels and stuff (when 4x4'ing) and have often fixed fences, walls and cleared deadfallsand old tracks

THAT'S what would be effective.......instead of 3 restricted routes, we open up 20 more to EVERYONE......Nimby's happy, George and Mildred the woolly hatted ramblers less unhappy and top totty in tight lycra riding trousers happy too

But no, all we're doing (apart from the few, granted) is going on mass, noisy and disruptive ride outs.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I think the problem is the lack of lanes

As stated the Wankers, sorry I mean Ramblers association already have 97% of the trails stitched up, that leaves us 3%.

Outside of the Peak District there seems to be feck all in England

Good Luck with the action

Not quite true, there's loads if you look and most of it is NOT, on a OS map

Go to the County Records office and view it for yourself

Some counties even have it online now

I've done 4 lanes today, on a mixed road ride today - none were in the NPA, but they were all in a 5 mile radius of a popular biking hotspot

None were shown on the OS map, as such - but they are all unsurfaced roads (and bloody good ones too). Nobody uses them and thus nobody bothers you ie Walkers and Landowners (I did see a couple out walking and they waved and smiled, plus a farmer on his tractor and he was fine)

So...............for me it's all about stealth and I know many other trailriders are adopting this approach, due to the explosion of 'Adventure' riders and other 'would-be' enduroists

 

[MickDB1]

I read a post on this very subject/area - The guy posting said

The thing is that for years we as trail bikers have been complacent and when a lane has closed we have just shrugged our shoulders and moved onto the next lane, or gone to the local Enduro land and paid your £30 .
Now I believe the guy is a good lad but really should not be implying that the lanes are a substitute for an enduro track
We maybe have all travelled a tadge over the "recommended TRF guide speed"
but To quote a great trailrider from the NW TRF
Unless we all ride with respect fro the land and trail and folk on it were all doomed to closeures
I myself would like a permit/badge/registration for users of the trails and pull those who abuse to stop um Before you all start with its illegal/stolen bikes
Honestly most of it isnt - is it
Pony trekking On two wheels = Thats me

 

[Timpo]

the explosion of 'Adventure' riders and other 'would-be' enduroists

I don't see the link between an 'would-be' enduroist and adventure rider..... are the two linked apart from the same that links them to a 'normal' trail rider of your ilk Johnny?

And if i every had to put my money on what killed motorised use of the trails in an Nat Park, the two factors are NOISE and OFF PISTE DAMAGE.

T.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

I don't see the link between an 'would-be' enduroist and adventure rider..... are the two linked apart from the same that links them to a 'normal' trail rider of your ilk Johnny?

And if i every had to put my money on what killed motorised use of the trails in an Nat Park, the two factors are NOISE and OFF PISTE DAMAGE.

T.

I completely agree with you...........noise, increased numbers and off-piste riding have killed (killing) it

You cannot fail to have seen a massive increase in numbers of bikes on the trail in the last 20 years, I call it the 'KTM factor' to coin a phrase, where many road riders have bought a KTM and just ridden offroad, sometimes on legal routes and sometimes not, on bikes that are very powerful (think erosion) and noisy
Secondly there has been an increase in Adventure bike sales, in the last 5 years and these buyers wnat to ride thier so-called 'offroad' bikes on trails and these bikes are very heavy and unsuitable for some trails (think erosion) and/or noisy

So...............there you have it

Increased numbers on the trails have led to more public awareness and a negative impression to most other NPA users, hence the very fragile and precarious position the motorised users of trails find themselves in today

NERC gave the NPA, massive powers to manage 'their' countryside and they will bow to the majority, who have the voting powerbase................unfortunately that ain't US and the CC Highways will try to appease the NPA

Outside of the NPA areas, I don't see a massive problem - the lanes are little used and mainly unknown to the 'KTM brigade' and I for one will not share my knowledge with them

Happy to take out like minded trailriders in small groups on trailbikes, with no GPS............but nowadays i mainly ride either alone or with just 2 or 3 others

 

[Oldrat]

IMHO
I think a whole bunch of bikers turning up would probably be perceived by those wishing to ban bikes as noisy and and unsociable- counter productive. They dislike them anyway, so whats different to change their views

Whereas if all the bikers turned up in their cars instead to lobby the same message, I think it could work a treat. The nimbys would be rubbing their hands together thinking of all that tourism.

Good luck anyway

 

[MickDB1]

I think Oldrat is about right
Turn up in the peaks in yer car
block all the carparks used by "walkers" and have " SHUT THE PATHS AND BRIDLEWAYS banners
Lets go back a few decades - Landowners /posh nimbys/ retired MPs/ do gooders for the planet - they will all be happy

 

[Fanum]

Not quite true, there's loads if you look and most of it is NOT, on a OS map



I've done 4 lanes today, on a mixed road ride today - none were in the NPA, but they were all in a 5 mile radius of a popular biking hotspot


So...............for me it's all about stealth and I know many other trailriders are adopting this approach, due to the explosion of 'Adventure' riders and other 'would-be' enduroists

the lanes are little used and mainly unknown to the 'KTM brigade' and I for one will not share my knowledge with them

Happy to take out like minded trailriders in small groups on trailbikes, with no GPS............but nowadays i mainly ride either alone or with just 2 or 3 others

There is some differing views as to whether direct action is the way forward?


With info, comes rights and responsibilities and many people don't have these, so they just rip up the lanes because they've read it in a mag


Something needs doing, as the popular lanes are being overused

Perhaps then, rather than forming secret cliques and clubs and refusing to share knowledge of routes that would spread the concentration of riders out, perhaps to a level where the ramblers wouldn't mind, those who have 'the info' should be responsible and show, educate and guide the newcomers rather than refusing to share knowledge with them

They'll only find the routes eventually......acting like an ostrich will only delay your losing them

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Perhaps then, rather than forming secret cliques and clubs and refusing to share knowledge of routes that would spread the concentration of riders out, perhaps to a level where the ramblers wouldn't mind, those who have 'the info' should be responsible and show, educate and guide the newcomers rather than refusing to share knowledge with them

They'll only find the routes eventually......acting like an ostrich will only delay your losing them

No secret cliques....................the info is all in the public domain, so go and find it

Join the TRF, ride with them and they will show you the info, after you've joined in with their rides

That's how I did it, 20 years ago

Researched them, rode with some great friends then and now

Everybody wants it all on a plate now, life isn't like that though

We're talking NPA and those lanes have been overused for years - that's why they're under threat now - re-read my post # 15 for the reasons why

I ride out of the NPA more and more, on unsurfaced highways

As I said..................happy to lead others on suitable trailbikes, but NO GPS

 

[Deleted account 231002001]

I agree with the restriction on motor vehicles going 'off road' with-in the national parks.
I used to ride these areas but would no longer want to see trail bikes and 4x4's driving across Dartmoor and Exmoor.