We Really are Struggling in the Peak District.

[(RIP) DitchWater]

With reference to the NIMBY's and NaySayers mentioned elsewhere within this thread: I live in a field by a river, but only for the next few days, at the end of an unadopted road which is frequently used by walkers, dog walker, horse riders, canoeists and fishermen, and my neighbours. I slow down or stop for all of the users of what I have been calling My Lane because it is fun when the time is right, and especially with the wet weather we've had but, there seems to about 50% of those I encounter who definately do not like me riding a bike to or from my abode.

My immediate neighbours think I'm a headcase (keep your thoughts to yourselves please ) for riding a GSA down the lane and across a field everyday but it's the occasional users who are offended. For some reason they are less offended by the massive 4x4's and SUV's and I for one can't understand why they don't mind leaning into a hedge when the four wheelers come by but only have to stand to one side when I ride a bike.

Some people just don't like motorcycles no matter how courteous or considerately we use them in the countryside. Thankfully for me I've managed to bite my tongue and not question the look on the faces of some of the sour pusses who've given me a look of disdain for daring to ride in this place.

It won't be long before everyone has to wear Hi-Vis before leaving the house and setting foot onto the pavement: I'm getting sick and tired of this country and it's stupid regulations and laws.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

You're right DW, some people only see bikes as dangerous, noisy & generally anti-social vehicles
They either think bikers are 'bad ass' Harley types or speeding, dangerous sports bike nutters :-(

 

[Oldrat]

I think Oldrat is about right
Turn up in the peaks in yer car
block all the carparks used by "walkers" and have " SHUT THE PATHS AND BRIDLEWAYS banners
Lets go back a few decades - Landowners /posh nimbys/ retired MPs/ do gooders for the planet - they will all be happy

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Instead of taking you bike to protest, take your car and protest about the proposed restrictions on motorcycle access.
They dislike bikes anyway, so a mass bike protest will further alienate. A mass car lobby will make them think that they are not the view of the average punter.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Instead of taking you bike to protest, take your car and protest about the proposed restrictions on motorcycle access.
They dislike bikes anyway, so a mass bike protest will further alienate. A mass car lobby will make them think that they are not the view of the average punter.

I like that, makes a lot of sense

Andres

 

[paulgoy]

Have a look at this same subject on the KTM forum
Can't believe some people!!

 

[TwoTone]

.............................Thereby pretty much guaranteeing the closure of these lanes , permanently






FFS, we really REALLY don't do ourselves any favours, do we

Ironic really, having the TRF cementing the death of trail riding in the UK by doing such wanky things as that.

Were it not for the TRF England and Wales would be like Scotland is now the lanes we enjoy today would have been lost to the Countryside Act in the 1980s.

 

[TwoTone]

I'm afraid I don't really have an alternative, but I'd bet my left bollock that if all the people who have ever been on these 'mass events' had put the money they'd spent on petrol and getting there, the effort they have invested in ranting on ineffectual forums (preaching to the converted) and the time everyone has spent on the issue into a proper, considered and paid for legal challenge, political lobbying based on the MONEY that local business and areas will inevitably lose and on the RIGHTS established by custom and practice, then trail riding wouldn't be under such serious threat.

We re not preaching to the converted,we re preaching to the inactive,one of the main reasons we re doing so badly is the antis constantly harrang the park officials and make it clear they will maintain the pressure untill they get their way.

 

[Fanum]

We re not preaching to the converted,we re preaching to the inactive,one of the main reasons we re doing so badly is the antis constantly harrang the park officials and make it clear they will maintain the pressure untill they get their way.

That's fine, but honestly, do you think a mass ride type event is in your/our best interests?

I certainly don't.

Each weekend, if 50 riders and a couple of land rovers turned up at a lane that's been blocked with fallen trees or just overgrown, they cleared it and stuck a notice in the paper saying that it has been re-opened courtesy of the local TRF, and is now open to ALL to use, I reckon that would do wonders for the 'cause' rather than getting a bunch of hooligans with loud pipes and small plates out pissing the antis off.

Seems obvious to me

 

[Flipfly]

That's fine, but honestly, do you think a mass ride type event is in your/our best interests?

I certainly don't.

Each weekend, if 50 riders and a couple of land rovers turned up at a lane that's been blocked with fallen trees or just overgrown, they cleared it and stuck a notice in the paper saying that it has been re-opened courtesy of the local TRF, and is now open to ALL to use, I reckon that would do wonders for the 'cause' rather than getting a bunch of hooligans with loud pipes and small plates out pissing the antis off.

Seems obvious to me

+1

The last ride out "in protest" I did was to the head office of North Wales police regarding the "over Policing" that was occurring.

Upon parking up, I wandered around. At least 50% of the bikes were illegal in some way or other, ranging from loud race pipes, small number plates to bald tyres and out of date tax

On top of this, I was chatting to one of the bike cops when a call came through for a fatal accident involving a biker.

I left early in total embarrassment.

It's a real shame what is happening with the lanes, but there are so many knobs out there riding them too fast, and too many off road vehicles churning them up, that it's really hard to justify our position against one of the most powerful organisations in the country.

 

[(RIP) DitchWater]

It's a real shame what is happening with the lanes, but there are so many knobs out there riding them too fast, and too many off road vehicles churning them up, that it's really hard to justify our position against one of the most powerful organisations in the country.

+1 for wot Flip said: The last time I rode in The Peaks our group passed a couple of Geezers offloading their two stroke Honda's and subsequently roared past us at an offensive speed to both us and the general populus. We all agreed at Hairy Mary's Ice Cream Van that they are the type which is ruining it for those who give consideration to other users of the Byways.

I will not be in the UK for this demo but do agree that if you go in your car, and be pleasant and affable to anyone around, the job will be done better than when showing your bike off to display your prowess.

Good luck to those who attend and I hope you do well to send the right message and get some NaySayer's on your side.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

National Parks are sensitive areas and have to comply with all manner of extra legislation

I, for one think all vehicles should be sub90db to enter the Park area (Cars/Bikes - sports and any other) etc

I would also like to see permits be issued by the NPA to manage trailriding on marked lanes, so that all users 2 and 4wd would have to apply for an annual permit costing say £300-£400 pa

This money could be use for lane conservation

A target number of permits for bikes and 4x4's would be available each year and when the permits are sold out - that's it, no more than the prescribed number of vehicles, until January of the following year

That would manage the amount of vehicles using the lanes to a sustainable number, instead of a free for all

Also in times of extreme weather (like we've just had) there could be a temp closure of certain lanes, so damage is minimised

So.............NO PERMIT = NO RIDE

Bikes without annual permits would be seized immediately and crushed within 7 days - no appeals

Works in the USA and allows sustainable trailriding

 

[MickDB1]

Most of Johnny's recommendation I would agree with
Permits - Yep but I dont think selling them is the answer - because the riders and drivers with think its a licence to " Lets get stuck and muddy and winch and damage all over cos "weeve paid for it" Also if yer sold and had a limit it would not be truely fair to everyone
Noisey bikes and berserker's of all vehicle and animals could have their permits withdrawn if proof given against them for a good period of time
Permits earnt by passing a sencible text - on the trails with volunteer examiners

Extreme weather - again its common sense just isnt that common
I have left the lanes alone during this last really bad weather - some only like it when its extreem do they need a Offtarmac course ??? and on the cheap
I would take this even further to include Horse and Pony riders Some of these should not be "Out on the road" = These are roads lets not forget and Insurance would be a pre requisite for all permits
This can/could all be done on line
Hope this post gets read and all ideas should be chucked in then post it off to PD planning as a guide to sence The KTM forum post are sometimes a tadge Fooookin barmy
These lane are for all not for a few and not to be abused
I cant understand why more folk just dont stop and have a look about at the beautiful area whilst their out I doooooooo

 

[Womble]

The idea of permits has been suggested by the TRF but the antis just want all mechanically powered vehicles out of the Peak District - that's the ENTIRE peak district, they even complain about road bikes with loud exhausts. So, even if you don't trail ride, this is an important issue that you should be paying attention to.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Most of Johnny's recommendation I would agree with
Permits - Yep but I dont think selling them is the answer - because the riders and drivers with think its a licence to " Lets get stuck and muddy and winch and damage all over cos "weeve paid for it" Also if yer sold and had a limit it would not be truely fair to everyone

Paying for it is the answer, then you keep out the nuisance riders, any rider WITHOUT a Permit - crush his bike

Noisey bikes and berserker's of all vehicle and animals could have their permits withdrawn if proof given against them for a good period of time

Permits earnt by passing a sencible test - on the trails with volunteer examiners - not workable, sadly

Extreme weather - again its common sense just isnt that common
I have left the lanes alone during this last really bad weather - some only like it when its extreem do they need a Offtarmac course ??? and on the cheap

Enter a lane when a ban is in force - permit revoked, for 1 year

I would take this even further to include Horse and Pony riders Some of these should not be "Out on the road" = These are roads lets not forget and Insurance would be a pre requisite for all permits - not really aimed at horseriders, let them sort themselves out

This can/could all be done on line


Hope this post gets read and all ideas should be chucked in then post it off to PD planning as a guide to sence The KTM forum post are sometimes a tadge Fooookin barmy

These lane are for all not for a few and not to be abused

I cant understand why more folk just dont stop and have a look about at the beautiful area whilst their out I doooooooo

Mick..............regulation, permits and payment is the way forward - it sorts out the wheat from the chaff

If you're serious about trailriding as a hobby - then pay a worthwhile chunk annually for a permit to ride

In return, you get clearly marked lanes and designated areas to ride, so there is no confusion and walkers know that these are legally allowed areas for motorised vehicle users for them to enjoy all year round (weather permitting)

Commercial trailriding companies would be levied a high permit charge

Also permits for weekend riding would be highest, with Sundays the highest permit cost - midweek permits would be cheapest

Park Rangers to enforce and inspect permits

It happens in the USA...............let's have it here

The idea of permits has been suggested by the TRF but the antis just want all mechanically powered vehicles out of the Peak District - that's the ENTIRE peak district, they even complain about road bikes with loud exhausts. So, even if you don't trail ride, this is an important issue that you should be paying attention to.

I'm not just talking about the Peak District..................but all English NPA's

 

[Womble]

I don't disagree with the concept of permits for all national parks, but I did want to point out that this is an issue that could affect all bikers in the Peak District. If that is a 'success', then it the antis in the other areas could latch on and start excluding bikes off the roads in those areas too. It sounds like scaremongering right now, but we can already see the antis going for the cyclists where the bikes and 4x4s have been ousted, so it won't be too much of a leap for them to go for the road bikes too.

 

[Timpo]

Sorry, the permit scheme will not work.
There are already rules and regs that road vehicles and users need to adhere to, and there are many numpties who are not doing this, so adding a permit scheme just add to the list of 'things not done'.

Above someone has just said that the antis want all vehicles banned. This could happen. You will see a permit scheme then, a 'resident or delivery' permit.

Unfortunately, the antis are living in the past, most being old folk with memories of few vehicles on the roads, and now they have creamed and bleed the country dry, they want to condemn most of us into staying in the towns/cities, under the gaze of cctv, and allow them to spend the remainder of the days in quiet areas. But there has been a population boom since their youth, mainly their doing too, and there is not enough room in UK for huge areas of land to be silenced to give them a garden to enjoy before their deaths.

T.

 

[MickDB1]

Ok Johnny I follow yer drift
Than I would not be on the lanes and trails as I believe that to "charge" would be like me going private funding totally with healthcare
When I am "Privately funding" there will be those that can be "more privately funding" than me - It would become a auction I hate the thought of young uns and old uns that would be prevented doing what I / We have been doing
Lets all be equal
Of course as it was one of my idea's first 10 years etc.
I like Womble hes a gudun too

 

[Fanum]

Mick..............regulation, permits and payment is the way forward - it sorts out the rich fuckers from the rest of us

If you're serious about trailriding as a hobby - then pay a worthwhile chunk annually for a permit to ride

And if I come up to stay with MrIfan for a weekend and we go for a bimble?

You can fuck right off with your expensive permits to ride....and the second that is mooted, we all might as well give up.

These lanes are ancient rights of way free for ALL to use.......THAT'S the baseline and anything else , as in your suggestion, is just elitist bollocks.

I'm sticking by my post a few up from this....it's not only the cheapest way forwards, but it could reconcile the decent people and the trail riders and leave the Janet Street Walkers fully revealed for the arseholes they are.

Each weekend, if 50 riders and a couple of land rovers turned up at a lane that's been blocked with fallen trees or just overgrown, they cleared it and stuck a notice in the paper saying that it has been re-opened courtesy of the local TRF, and is now open to ALL to use, I reckon that would do wonders for the 'cause' rather than getting a bunch of hooligans with loud pipes and small plates out pissing the antis off.

Seems obvious to me

Perfect

 

[Deleted account 231002001]

I'm sticking by my post a few up

Me too.

Close the NP's to all off road vehicles and do away with restricted byways elsewhere, opening up all the old RUPPs that were closed.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Sorry, the permit scheme will not work.[/B
]There are already rules and regs that road vehicles and users need to adhere to, and there are many numpties who are not doing this, so adding a permit scheme just add to the list of 'things not done'.

Above someone has just said that the antis want all vehicles banned. This could happen. You will see a permit scheme then, a 'resident or delivery' permit.

Unfortunately, the antis are living in the past, most being old folk with memories of few vehicles on the roads, and now they have creamed and bleed the country dry, they want to condemn most of us into staying in the towns/cities, under the gaze of cctv, and allow them to spend the remainder of the days in quiet areas. But there has been a population boom since their youth, mainly their doing too, and there is not enough room in UK for huge areas of land to be silenced to give them a garden to enjoy before their deaths.

T.

So if it works in the USA................why would it not work here?

And if I come up to stay with MrIfan for a weekend and we go for a bimble?

You can fuck right off with your expensive permits to ride....and the second that is mooted, we all might as well give up.

These lanes are ancient rights of way free for ALL to use.......THAT'S the baseline and anything else , as in your suggestion, is just elitist bollocks.

I'm sticking by my post a few up from this....it's not only the cheapest way forwards, but it could reconcile the decent people and the trail riders and leave the Janet Street Walkers fully revealed for the arseholes they are.



Perfect

What your saying is absolute BOLLOX too

The current system ain't working................so something needs to change

Paying isn't elitist for a hobby.............you tosser - look how many ordinary blokes pay to 'Course Fish' or Pay and Play Golf

The ancinet 'ROW' is tosh too, they were meant for horse and cart traffic, not 50BHP motorbikes and V8 4WDs

So Bill your argument is a load of crap, if you use the 'it's our Right' argument the NPA could and would close them down immediately and rightly so

In a political argument, nobody has right to anything anymore

What we have to devise is a plan.............a sustainable one and a workable one, because the one we have isn't working in the NPA areas