We Really are Struggling in the Peak District.

[Fanum]

Paying isn't elitist for a hobby.............you tosser - look how many ordinary blokes pay to 'Course Fish' or Pay and Play Golf

Yeah, and golf isn't elitist in the slightest, is it

In a political argument, nobody has right to anything anymore

Tosh....they can't take away rights.

What we have to devise is a plan.............a sustainable one and a workable one, because the one we have isn't working in the NPA areas

Exactly....we agree on that point at least.

The current plan though, getting a thousand arseholes and 100 decent trail riders to swamp the very area that the Antis want us out of....fucking brilliant, sherlock

Johnny...Address your concentration to my plan as mentioned above for a second, if you would......or are you elitist rich cnuts too lazy to get out there and clear some lanes, and would just be happy to PAY to use what you actually have the ancient right to use anyway?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Yeah, and golf isn't elitist in the slightest, is it (I said PAY & PLAY, on muncipal courses... numpty)

Tosh....they can't take away rights. They can and THEY will, have a read of the anti-terror legislation (ultimate draconia, but they can do anything they want)


Exactly....we agree on that point at least.

The current plan though, getting a thousand arseholes and 100 decent trail riders to swamp the very area that the Antis want us out of....fucking brilliant, sherlock (Not my plan and I will not support it)

Johnny...Address your concentration to my plan as mentioned above for a second, if you would......or are you elitist rich cnuts too lazy to get out there and clear some lanes, and would just be happy to PAY to use what you actually have the ancient right to use anyway?

Lane clearing, is like 'pissing in the wind', it is already being done, every week if you care to read Trail mag, from the TRF...................it is having no effect

I'm not happy to pay, but if it creates a permitted use arena for responsible motorised offroad vehicle users of all classes, colour or creed to use and enjoy the British countryside on an ongoing basis......................then bring it on

I would like to hear more about the American system of off road use and how they implement it

Bill....................free doen't always mean better

 

[MickDB1]

Me too.

Close the NP's to all off road vehicles and do away with restricted byways elsewhere, opening up all the old RUPPs that were closed.

I supose you do mean on all the trails and byways etc.
If you dont then you would prevent all the rich Horse farmers (folks who buy a farm to turn it into a yuppy dwelling for themselves an there horsey friends and rent out unwanted or further afar fields for stableing) from towing their horse boxes and taking their snotty kids to the private schools in the area -
I like Trippy toooo

 

[Flipfly]

I like the idea of a test.

Mick and I could go with Gaz (Skygod) and teach everyone how to stop for a chat every 10 minutes, how to sit on an empty bench and talk bollox whilst surveying the scenery and also how to employ the "brew and brekkie" technique to laning. Mustn't forget the "lunch stop and pee" method and of course the "beer at the end of the day" system.

Far more useful to a days laning than "ride like a tw*t", "piss everyone off with my noisy exhaust", "look like I'm racing" and "Look at me I'm feckin hard I am" which are all seen on the lanes far too frequently.

Pony trekking on a Petrol nag is what we do, attitude not required

 

[rml]

Mass protest seems to have worked for the Ramblers in the past:

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/events/festivals/kinder80festival

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_trespass_of_Kinder_Scout

Shame they don't seem to want equal access for every type of trail user.

 

[Fanum]

Mass protest seems to have worked for the Ramblers in the past:

Probably because when you get a mass gathering of ramblers together, the most anti social thing they bring with them are their extra chunky knitwear in dubious designs, a faint smell of wee and over-stewed tea in thermos flasks.

Get a mass meet of bikers together, and half of them will be on illegal bikes that are precisely the sort of thing that triggered the closures in the first place

 

[Timolgra]

Get a mass meet of bikers together, and half of them will be on illegal bikes that are precisely the sort of thing that triggered the closures in the first place

You're wrong on both counts Bill

 

[Fanum]

You're wrong on both counts Bill

How so Tim?

Read back up in this very thread and take a look at Flip's report of the last meet he went to.

He's not the only one either.....I've seen it myself, as I'm sure you have.

Small plates, bald tyres, NON CE tyres, NON CE 'zorsts, (or before any pedant picks me up on it, marked 'not for road use' ) Improperly displayed rax discs (yah I know, I haven't had one on my bike for 5 years either but you get the point) etc etc etc.....


You don't have to look far to see (or certainly get the impression anyway, which is what counts on a campaign) that the Off-road motorcyclist's worst enemy are Off road motorcyclists.

Here's a bet for you......Go and do a search on You tube for 'Ramblers in the peak district' and then 'Off road bikers in the peak district'

How many times do you think you'll see a law or the countryside rules being broken in ther first 10 rambler's videos, against the first ten riding videos?

Want to lay a bet on the outcome, which type of video will have more examples of bad behaviour, noise, outright lawbreaking and what a reasonable person would consider anti social behaviour? ?

 

[Timolgra]

How so Tim?

Read back up in this very thread and take a look at Flip's report of the last meet he went to.

He's not the only one either.....I've seen it myself, as I'm sure you have.

Small plates, bald tyres, NON CE tyres, NON CE 'zorsts, (or before any pedant picks me up on it, marked 'not for road use' ) Improperly displayed rax discs (yah I know, I haven't had one on my bike for 5 years either but you get the point) etc etc etc.....


You don't have to look far to see (or certainly get the impression anyway, which is what counts on a campaign) that the Off-road motorcyclist's worst enemy are Off road motorcyclists.

Here's a bet for you......Go and do a search on You tube for 'Ramblers in the peak district' and then 'Off road bikers in the peak district'

How many times do you think you'll see a law or the countryside rules being broken in ther first 10 rambler's videos, against the first ten riding videos?

Want to lay a bet on the outcome, which type of video will have more examples of bad behaviour, noise, outright lawbreaking and what a reasonable person would consider anti social behaviour? ?

Your answer was related to mass protest

 

[Fanum]

Your answer was related to mass protest

Yes

My point though, all the way through, is that we are often our own enemy, and we are going about it (IMO) in not only the wrong way, but in a genuinely counter-productive way.

We don't do ourselves any favours, do we

 

[Timolgra]

The confusion's in the detail mate, legal use or not the rule makers will bulldoze restrictive regulations through because they believe they hold the moral high ground with objectives contrary to ours.

Eg. "The Campaign for National Parks (CNP) is the national charity that works to protect and enhance the National Parks of England and Wales and areas that merit National Park status, and promote understanding and quiet enjoyment of them for the benefit of all."...but of course it's not for all!


We trail riders are up against a rising tide of quangos and campaign groups.
The legal use of power boats on Windermere for instance was quashed in an instant despite substantial economic repercussions and that bulldozer may well head our way when the time's right

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

Lets face it...too many people and not enough space.

I feel for you....but if you want decent space and trails you should have moved to somewhere bigger with less people....

 

[Fanum]

Lets face it...too many people and not enough space.

I feel for you....but if you want decent space and trails you should have moved to somewhere bigger with far more natural disasters, poisonous spiders, ridiculous speeding penalties, more extreme weather than Skegness of a bank holiday Monday and wanky accents

Fixed

 

[SkyGod]

......

 

[Deleted account Cooperman]

The comparison with the effective banning of motorised boats on Windermere is valid (it was actually the imposition of a low speed limit).

The lake already had well regulated usage needing the annual registration (and payment) of each boat, speed limits on parts of the lake and patrolling wardens. Breaking the rules meant either fines or withdrawal of registration.

However this was not good enough for the 'movement' to ban the boats (who have 15 other lakes in the Park to visit which did not allow motorised boats).

Many well organised 'peaceful' demonstrations were held on the Lake all having plenty of publicity but ultimately to no avail with the decision being made in Westminster.

It's all politics.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

The comparison with the effective banning of motorised boats on Windermere is valid (it was actually the imposition of a low speed limit).

The lake already had well regulated usage needing the annual registration (and payment) of each boat, speed limits on parts of the lake and patrolling wardens. Breaking the rules meant either fines or withdrawal of registration.

However this was not good enough for the 'movement' to ban the boats (who have 15 other lakes in the Park to visit which did not allow motorised boats).

Many well organised 'peaceful' demonstrations were held on the Lake all having plenty of publicity but ultimately to no avail with the decision being made in Westminster.

It's all politics.

A salutory lesson

I didn't know the detail............................seems we're fecked anyway

I mainly avoid the NP's and ride elsewhere...

Less people

Less other trailriders

Scenery and trail challenges are just as good

 

[timeandtide]

A salutory lesson

I didn't know the detail............................seems we're fecked anyway

I mainly avoid the NP's and ride elsewhere...

Less people

Less other trailriders

Scenery and trail challenges are just as good

All very well JB but some of us live there!

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

All very well JB but some of us live there!

True, but so do I

I have a NP on either side of me (Dales and NY Moors) and within 10 miles each way of home

However there are loads of trails/white roads/UCR's outside the NP boundaries that nobody ever rides/walks/cycles, if you look.

I prefer to 'pony trek' on them rather than be associated with the 'orange racing brigade' who can only seem to ride in the NP's because they can't be bothered to research their own routes and follow someone else

 

[Bill-H]

Why not spend the money a tank full of petrol costs to join the Ramblers Association?
1,000 new members all attending Rambler's meetings to voice their feelings.
Bring change from within.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Why not spend the money a tank full of petrol costs to join the Ramblers Association?
1,000 new members all attending Rambler's meetings to voice their feelings.
Bring change from within.

Not a bad idea Bill

I was in the Dales yesterday and went to Muker Show

Funnily enough, the only 2 people who looked out of place amongst everyone there, were 2 motorcyclists (a couple) in full leathers carrying a tankbag around on a hot sunny day

If Tralriding was banned in the NP's, I'd just ride elsewhere or just ride Trials each weekend