Well, I may regret posting this ....

[Rasher]

I do not really understand the sensitive comments, or the ones about it being a bit lively with the restrictions gone.

It pulls harder at any revs for the same amount of throttle input, so you just need a bit less throttle for the same amount of go, the stock off-on throttle response is a bit jerky at low speed IMO, but the Flash does seem smoother overall with a very linear response.

The bike is only as lively as you let it be, if you never use more than 1/4 throttle you would barely notice the restrictions being removed, the difference is when you dial in a big handful it will now deliver instead of the ECU refusing to give what you ask for - it does not reverse the throttle so it starts at 100% and winds down to 0 or anything so odd it cannot be controlled - you get exactly the power you ask for, when you ask for it, and if you want to drive slowly in 1st then don't whack the throttle wide open - simple!

Not forgetting we are talking about a 100BHP bike that weighs 250kg, not a lightened turbocharged Busa with QAT.

If you look on the other site at reviews not a single person who has had the flash would consider for a second reverting to stock, perhaps you could ask if Race Engineering can arrange a money back guarantee for the Flash.

 

[KevinW]

<snip> Not forgetting we are talking about a 100BHP bike that weighs 250kg, not a lightened turbocharged Busa with QAT. <snip>

I've just sold what was probably one of the fastest normally-aspirated Hayabusas in the country so I'm under no illusions that a Tenere is going to take off like a scalded cat. (Lots of people will tell you their Busa will do 200mph, ask them to show you the timing ticket to prove it rather than quoting what their very optimistic speedo says. I don't like to think how much we spent on that bike.)

What I'm concerned about is an on/off throttle which would be very uncomfortable for SWMBO. If you're telling me it really isn't like that I may give it a go.

Kevin

 

[Rasher]

What I'm concerned about is an on/off throttle which would be very uncomfortable for SWMBO. If you're telling me it really isn't like that I may give it a go.

Not in my opinion, we did a 3,000 mile trip around the Alps last summer and a few thousand other miles two-up in the UK and we never really had a problem, I think the issue is a snatch as it goes from off to on throttle, even in T mode there is a slight jerk - I think people who are ham fisted probably make it worse by wrenching at the throttle - combined with a lot of low down grunt it will feel a bit jerky, a smooth roll-on masks the behaviour.

One thing the flash does is slightly reduce the engine braking, if anything this is worse when two-up as it is very abrupt, this also did not bother me much, but one thing many people who had the ECU-U flash praised is the smoother roll-off (I suspect to keep emissions low Yamaha cut the injectors very aggressively)

I expect ECU-U could possibly do a map with slightly less aggressive throttle mapping - but as stated I think the issue is more to do with engine characteristics (and being a 1200 twin) rather than an overly aggressive throttle map so this is unlikely to help much and will reduce the response gains.

A few guys your way have had a flash, maybe post on yamahasupertenere.com and see if someone will let you have a quick try on theirs, or ask about a guarantee from ECU-U, they may be willing to do refund / revert if you do not like it. Race Engineering are also really good - call and have a chat with Simon.

 

[IainMac]

I've had my S10 for a few years now and what I've found is the snatchy throttle can be cured or created by a few tweaks/thing.
A list of these are
1) a slight surge/stumble in cold damp conditions was sorted by replacing the LHS spark coil which had corroded /swollen and broke during removal.
2) Remus can without baffle induced a snatchy part throttle transition most noticeable in T Mode, fixed by inserting supplied baffle.
3) setting CO settings back to as delivered Zero induced a snatchy part throttle transition in T and S (with remus + baffle).

2 and 3 lead me to believe the S10 doesn't like a lean mixture in part throttle roll on from low revs . Bumping up the CO settings to 3 seems to help alleviate 3 though it didn't seem to be enough to sort 2. As I've grown to like the calming effect of the Remus baffle in sound (still more fruity than stock can) I've not experimented more .
Note this is a stock S10 without a reflash and I've not felt the need for more power, (less weight yes).

 

[Rasher]

Have a look here to see how happy those who have had the flash have been:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7936

More info with other links here:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7969.msg134187#msg134187

I do not think anyone has regretted having a Flash done yet and almost everyone rates it as one of, if not the, best mod they have ever done to a bike.

 

[KevinW]

Thanks. I was already persuaded by your experience but I'm going to talk to them first.

I'm reading the thread you highlighted but do you know if anyone who participated in it had had the flash done to a 2014 bike? I only rode the 2014 for a couple of hundred miles or so but the fuelling felt much better to me than on our 2011 (although, as I've noted before, I suspect the Akrapovic was helping that and I haven't had it transferred to the new bike).

Why would anyone want to increase the idle speed?

Sorry for hijacking your thread Mr. Buygum.

Kevin

 

[KevinW]

<snip> Why would anyone want to increase the idle speed? <snip>

I've just read about that in the ECUnleashed thread yonder. Apparently one of the benefits is to reduce engine braking. I'm struggling to understand why that's a benefit and wouldn't have thought increasing it by such a small amount would make much difference.

I do think I'm going to have the flash done though.

Kevin

 

[Rasher]

Apparently one of the benefits is to reduce engine braking.

It makes the bike smoother when rolling off the throttle (fewer headbutts from the pillion) may also make it a bit nicer rolling into really tight bends on a closed throttle.

I personally did not really notice much of a problem pre-flash, or much of a difference post flash with the engine braking, it may be a little better but is certainly a subtle change.

 

[Blackal]

It makes the bike smoother when rolling off the throttle (fewer headbutts from the pillion) may also make it a bit nicer rolling into really tight bends on a closed throttle.

I personally did not really notice much of a problem pre-flash, or much of a difference post flash with the engine braking, it may be a little better but is certainly a subtle change.

The smoothing out of throttle open/close action - appears to be a function of all reprograms (Power Commander or remapping) - But I think the engine braking remains basically unaltered.

Al

 

[KevinW]

A somewhat belated response to this thread but our bike has been elsewhere for a while. I find the throttle on the 2014 model rather on and off, it's not smooth at all, and the engine seems quite rough when trickling through town traffic. The symptoms are probably exaggerated by the fact that I'm stuck at low rev's while I finish running it in but it definitely needs attention; even my wife is suggesting I get the ECU flashed/Dyno'd/Power Commander/something.

Maybe it improves as the mileage goes up?

Kevin

 

[Packer]

Don't do anything until you've put 2 - 3,000 miles on it and it's completely run in. Mine became substantially smoother and more responsive up to the two thousand mile mark. At approaching 4,000 miles now and the low gear restrictions are really bugging me for sprint overtakes on short straight sections of minor roads. It's a trek to Hilltop for me but I think it needs to be done. I spoke to them about the restrictions and Geof(?) says he leaves them in place to protect the transmission from the full load torque but reduces the effect of them substantially. If it makes the front wheel start to lift in second off the throttle that's good enough for me, I couldn't use much more than that anyway.

 

[KevinW]

That sounds like sensible advice which I'll follow. Thanks.

Kevin

 

[Rasher]

I suspect a remap will help, the 2014 will probably gain less as I understand it is no longer restricted (or not as restricted) at low revs in 1st - 3rd, but apart from the removal of restrictions it should also make the bike smoother.

With the lack of restrictions I think you have a more open choice between going down the re-flash or power commander route, talk to Race Engineering as they know the bike well and will be able to give honest advice on both options.

 

[KevinW]

I definitely need to do something. It's now got 2k on it and we have a round trip of around 700 miles to do this weekend. If the GSA was here rather than having some work done to it I'd be taking that because it's much smoother. I suspect by the time we get back my wife will be suggesting I call someone Monday morning!

The Tenere is definitely smoother when I close the throttle in T mode but not very responsive when I open it.

I know from personal experience that the throttle characteristics are very different between the 2011 and 2014 models. I did email ECUnleashed about the 2014 model as they don't list it on their site but didn't receive a reply. I suspect none of the shops have had (m)any 2014 models through the door yet so experience will be limited.

Kevin

 

[Rasher]

I think Flashtune may have a kit for the 2014, this allows you to Flash the bike yourself, a bit scary, but they provide some maps normally, and you could buy the kit and take it to a dyno tuner to get it all set up properly. This also allows you to alter throttle timings so you can tweak the throttle response in both S and T modes to exactly as you want it - you can also adjust engine braking characteristics.

Also try talking to CJS racing, he may be able to help.

 

[KevinW]

Having spoken to the guy who did a lot of work on our Hayabusa I'm going to try a RapidBike Evo which apparently self-tunes.

Kevin