What is available 300cc - 500cc Trail bike NEW

[(RIP) philgunn]

with the demise of the Suzuki DRZ 400 What NEW Trail bike and not a Road Legal enduro within that cc class is available ?
the DRZ400s filled a gap that is hard to fill

Beta Alp 400 ? (suzuki Dr350 engine)

pg

 

[Spout]

Beta Alp 400 ? (suzuki Dr350 engine)

I bought one earlier in the year to run alongside my HP.

It has opened up plenty of trails I'd been avoiding on my BMs, and is a real hoot to ride.

 

[FERRET]

I think Suzuki might still be making the drz400e, i was at the bike show at brum on sunday and there was one on the Suzuki stand, £3999 on the road if memory serves me correct, might be worth a call to your local dealer

 

[Timpo]

Kais in Atherton still have a couple of DRZ400E models.... though marketed as enduro, they pass as a trail bike with a couple of mods.....

 

[BAKERMAN]

I bought one earlier in the year to run alongside my HP.

It has opened up plenty of trails I'd been avoiding on my BMs, and is a real hoot to ride.

what is it ?

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

what is it ?

Beta Alp 4.0

 

[the beer hunter]

I bought one earlier in the year to run alongside my HP.

It has opened up plenty of trails I'd been avoiding on my BMs, and is a real hoot to ride.

Crackin' little bike Spout!

 

[(RIP) philgunn]

thanks for the Confirmation

so it looks like the ALP 400 (with 350 engine ) is the only trail bike availble new
Sprout do you like it ?
what range will you get with a full tank ? Looking for something that will do at least 100 Miles
who to get a good deal from ? for a new one

pg

 

[Crapaud]

Kais in Atherton still have a couple of DRZ400E models.... though marketed as enduro, they pass as a trail bike with a couple of mods.....

Serious question, how do you define the difference between a trail bike and an enduro?

Surely an enduro must still be fully road legal so is there an actual difference or is it just degrees of seriousness? I can understand that a full on race KTM EXC four stroke is more service intensive than a Suzuki DR but I honestly don't understand where a trail bike finishes and an enduro begins. For example my son's Honda CRF230F, is that a trail bike or an enduro?

What would the "couple of mods" be to pass as a trail bike?

Genuinely interested in differences and grateful if someone could explain to a relative off-road novice like me please.

 

[Hustler]

Serious question, how do you define the difference between a trail bike and an enduro?

Surely an enduro must still be fully road legal so is there an actual difference or is it just degrees of seriousness? I can understand that a full on race KTM EXC four stroke is more service intensive than a Suzuki DR but I honestly don't understand where a trail bike finishes and an enduro begins. For example my son's Honda CRF230F, is that a trail bike or an enduro?

What would the "couple of mods" be to pass as a trail bike?

Genuinely interested in differences and grateful if someone could explain to a relative off-road novice like me please.

Suspect it will be to do with entering competitions in that some events specify bikes must be official trail bikes and not modified enduro machines.

 

[(RIP) philgunn]

how to answer

now this is a dilema

I have had a DRZ 400 E (enduro ) and it was good off road with that great bottom end stonk , but if you had to do a road section of more that about 30 miles the low gearing became a pain in the butt

I also had a DRZ 400 S (Street or trail ?) not as focused off road very high gearing for going slow affroad , but more relaxed on road for a bit of light weight adventure touring (a lot heavyier than the E)

as also a previous owner and racer of KTM EXC 400 450 four strokes , good off road but not the tool for touring on if you fancy a bit of comfort

600's are just that bit ungainly for tight trails but good for the road
250's just that bit gutless for the road bits not relaxed at doing distance but good off road , ah! 350/450cc just the right balance for a small adventure bike

but everyone to his own

 

[Timpo]

Serious question, how do you define the difference between a trail bike and an enduro?

Surely an enduro must still be fully road legal so is there an actual difference or is it just degrees of seriousness? I can understand that a full on race KTM EXC four stroke is more service intensive than a Suzuki DR but I honestly don't understand where a trail bike finishes and an enduro begins. For example my son's Honda CRF230F, is that a trail bike or an enduro?

What would the "couple of mods" be to pass as a trail bike?

Genuinely interested in differences and grateful if someone could explain to a relative off-road novice like me please.

OK Sid, fair question, and I will give you my opinion, if that is worth anything....

An enduro bike, by today's standard, is a light weight racing machine, able to carry one person only, having the bare minimum to receive type approval as a machine for competition purposes. This type approval will give enough spec to enable the bike to be road registered. Exhaust level is 96dB or less.
The engine tune is high with service intervals being that of a time similar to one day's worth of hard event style riding.


A trail bike, a bike designed with use on unsurfaced roads in mind. Engine tune level is not critical but good fuel economy, engine reliability and longivity are.
Sold with road bike type approval, are sold with lights, inc indicators, mirrors, rear passenger peg and chain guards (in most cases).
Clocks and dash have tell tail lights for high beam and indicators.
Exhaust has noise levels of under 90dB (iirc)

Some enduro bikes manufactured outside of Euro are sold with in UK needing small mods to make them conform to the UK type approval, with several small loops holes that can get them through but will not keep plod happy at a road side stop.
Let me use the DRZ400E as the example, having had plenty of experience with these bikes..... these mods can be done for less than £200 and a day in the garage:-
Lighting requires a dual filament bulb fitting for dip/main.
Rear light unit need stop/tail light capabilty.
Lighting switch gear is required.
Brake light switches need fitting.
Electric horn requires fitting.
Speedo requires fitting.
Standard tyres from new are not speed rated for UK, so need changing.
The DRZ400E is manufactered as an off road machine designed for a solo rider, so mirrors, indicators, chain guard and rear foot pegs are not required for UK legality.

T.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Serious question, how do you define the difference between a trail bike and an enduro?

Surely an enduro must still be fully road legal so is there an actual difference or is it just degrees of seriousness? I can understand that a full on race KTM EXC four stroke is more service intensive than a Suzuki DR but I honestly don't understand where a trail bike finishes and an enduro begins. For example my son's Honda CRF230F, is that a trail bike or an enduro?

What would the "couple of mods" be to pass as a trail bike?

Genuinely interested in differences and grateful if someone could explain to a relative off-road novice like me please.

The difference is 'hard' and 'soft'.................so to speak

CRF230..............trial bike

DRZ400S -metal tank, indicators & road gubbins, softer suspension....trail bike

XR400 - in between, but leans more to trail bike

DRZ400E - same as XR400

XChallenge - same as XR400 and can be turned into a racer with money as the basis is there

EXC450 - Enduro bike - straight out of the box, if you're good enough

EXC300 - Enduro bike, sames as EXC450

The definition isn't finite, but there is some crossover...................after all it's a spectrum

EDIT - Timpo has summed it up well and his opinion is spot-on

 

[Timpo]

now this is a dilema

I have had a DRZ 400 E (enduro ) and it was good off road with that great bottom end stonk , but if you had to do a road section of more that about 30 miles the low gearing became a pain in the butt

I also had a DRZ 400 S (Street or trail ?) not as focused off road very high gearing for going slow affroad , but more relaxed on road for a bit of light weight adventure touring (a lot heavyier than the E)

as also a previous owner and racer of KTM EXC 400 450 four strokes , good off road but not the tool for touring on if you fancy a bit of comfort

600's are just that bit ungainly for tight trails but good for the road
250's just that bit gutless for the road bits not relaxed at doing distance but good off road , ah! 350/450cc just the right balance for a small adventure bike

but everyone to his own

Gunner, had myself two Portugal trips this year with buddies from advrider.
Trip one was with DRZ400E, sure enough, great on the trails, bad on the roads.
Trip two was with my X-challenge, and was better on the roads and manageable on the tighter stuff, but not impossible. Some of the others (Loz and RickA) had KTM 690EnduroR, and again were a good compromise.
OK, coming in at about 160kg with gas, it ain't not lightweight, but it gave the tricky bits an edge and meant a bit of team building handballing the bikes up or down the obstruction.
I would say that the daily average speed was about the same for the two bikes, it's just speed on each 'going' was different....

 

[Timpo]

Scorpa T-ride?

A killer on the road sections, I bet!

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

now this is a dilema

I have had a DRZ 400 E (enduro ) and it was good off road with that great bottom end stonk , but if you had to do a road section of more that about 30 miles the low gearing became a pain in the butt

I also had a DRZ 400 S (Street or trail ?) not as focused off road very high gearing for going slow affroad , but more relaxed on road for a bit of light weight adventure touring (a lot heavyier than the E)

as also a previous owner and racer of KTM EXC 400 450 four strokes , good off road but not the tool for touring on if you fancy a bit of comfort

600's are just that bit ungainly for tight trails but good for the road
250's just that bit gutless for the road bits not relaxed at doing distance but good off road , ah! 350/450cc just the right balance for a small adventure bike

but everyone to his own

Phil, as always it boils down to usage, how much road and how much trail - dualsports are always a compromise - but you know this more than most with your experience

What stuff do you want to do? LDT's/Trails/Pyrenees Touring/Navigation Rallies -

Up to press - I haven't found a better bike than the XChallenge and it's only downfall is really tight single track or rock fields, but with skill and experience (which you have) this can be overcome to some degree

Sure it's heavier, but it's all relative

For everything else..................it's magic

But you know that....... as you own(ed) one

 

[Spout]

now this is a dilema

I have had a DRZ 400 E (enduro ) and it was good off road with that great bottom end stonk , but if you had to do a road section of more that about 30 miles the low gearing became a pain in the butt

I also had a DRZ 400 S (Street or trail ?) not as focused off road very high gearing for going slow affroad , but more relaxed on road for a bit of light weight adventure touring (a lot heavyier than the E)

as also a previous owner and racer of KTM EXC 400 450 four strokes , good off road but not the tool for touring on if you fancy a bit of comfort

600's are just that bit ungainly for tight trails but good for the road
250's just that bit gutless for the road bits not relaxed at doing distance but good off road , ah! 350/450cc just the right balance for a small adventure bike

but everyone to his own

Phil,

you might find the Beta Alp a little too small and cramped and underpowered to fill your road going criteria. Great bike for the trails, but just too small for a mini adventure bike
10 litre tank is good for 150+ miles though

 

[bakerlonglegs]

'Tiz a fuzzy line.

My KTM 400exc came with:
- indicators*
- long number plate holder & road legal plate*
- two mirrors
- higher geared rear sprocket for road work
- indicator and high beam warning lights*

* Actually on the bike when collected from the dealers, the rest was in a box.

Defo not a two-person machine, no pillion pegs. And the servicing is definitely in "hours" not "miles", but really not that hard to do.

A comfier seat and a bigger tank is all I would need to turn the bike into a better all-day proposition, both of which you can buy from KTM (as it is, I've done a 200+ mile green laning day on it, combination of on- and off-road). But I wouldn't go adventure touring on it .

I think my bike is great and is a keeper. My riding skills, on the other hand, totally suck, so I've got a while before I will be using the KTM at anything like its capability!

 

[Timpo]

My KTM 400exc....

....is an enduro bike.

 

[Crapaud]

Thanks for replies.

I know which bikes are clearly one or the other, its the ones in the middle ground that I found confusing. I bought my KTM640 the other year as a "lightweight" alternative to my 1100 GS for more serious off-roading. I went trail riding in Spain with some mates on their pogos and they thought of my 640 as a heavyweight compared to their full on enduro machines (NB all bikes were sent down to Spain in a van and used mainly off-road).

When Bakerman persuaded me to enter the SETRA enduro on Salisbury Plain, he told me my 640 was too big, heavy and unsuitable and I needed a real Enduro machine so bought a KTM 300EXC (which I love). I only popped into the KTM dealer to buy some fork seals but the salesman Gary is very good.

KTM 640 clearly a trail bike as heavy and road biased.

KTM 300 clearly enduro machine as designed for competition in mind.

CRF230, not so sure? Seems to be perfect little trail bike on the one hand but also fits the criteria for being a (novice) enduro bike with no indicators, no mirrors, single seat etc. This was part of reason for my original question as some events we've been looking at state open to trail bikes and I genuinely didn't know the exact difference to define the bikes in the middle ground. Just because the Honda doesn't need a rebuild every few hours seems a bit subjective to call it a trail bike?

Either way the CRF230 is a cracking little bike and my son loved riding it in the recent 3 hour enduro and it stood up to the task well. Enduro or trail?

Incidentally, in Spain, everyone was stopped by the police and told that that had to have mirrors on their bikes or pay Euro 60 fine. Obviously none of the full on enduro bikes had them and I had removed them from my 640 to save them.