What is it like?

Like most new bikes I have owned the Gear lever was about a foot too high, I guessed they set it so someone with massive feet and huge boots can always get there foot under it, I lowered mine a "notch" and it is now almost as slick as any other gearbox I have used - and far slicker than the Super Tenere, which was a noticeable improvement over my 2008 GS (and I thought that was perfectly acceptable)

I dunno why the menu is confusing you, you scroll up / down to the item you want and then press the set button to adjust - I assume it must also take you hours to change the TV Channel on a modern TV or Sky Box?

The Favourites make it even easier by allowing you to put all the things you commonly adjust in one place, and the reality is once you stop fucking around for the sake of fucking around you do not alter the settings much - I think this is one of the issues fo test rides, people spend the entire ride fucking around with this kind of thing rather than getting a feel for the bike. This will soon become second nature (probably on any bike on the market)

Never ridden the SA or had a bike with cruise, will probably upgrade to the "Standard" 2017 model at some point to gain this, again I am sure whatever system it is you would get used to, and how often do you change the cruise, I think the whole point of it is for times when your not going to be doing anything other than maintaining a constant speed for ages, such as long motorway blasts across France, if you found you desperately needed it on a 2 hour test drive I would suggest you re-think the test route.

Remember you are buying a motorbike first and foremost, not a new smart phone, the fun is in using the same controls that have been on motorcycles for 100 years and still work the same way, buying an under-powered, slow and boring machine just because you like the menu screen seems like an own goal to me.

Same with this "messing around with a chain", I said I would never buy another chain driven bike, the effort to splodge some oil on every 500 or so miles and to check the adjustment every 1,000 or so miles does not play on my mind. At 4k it has not needed adjustment yet, and can now wait for the dealer service when it is a year old.

Chains are better than ever, the Mrs TDM 900 has done 28k and the chain is still OK (it does have a wheel, sorry I mean Scot Oiler fitted) the lubes are also better than yesteryear, it does tend to chuck some crap on the rear rim, but it is worth the trade off to me for the 50kg weight saving and 25+ BHP advantage the KTM has over the BMW / Yamaha offerings. If your clocking up huge mileages maybe the shaft is a big win, but for under 10,000 miles a year I cannot see it being that much - and a failed / worn chain is £100, you need to get about 300,000 miles from your BMW shaft drive for the same cost per mile.


If you are unsure I would ask for a longer test ride and get the gear lever set properly, maybe also wait for the 2017 Adventure models, you might find you also like the lesser weight, more is not always better.


I suppose there is also the Ducati MTS range, they look awesome, but I could not afford the servicing costs and fear the reliability, although mainly based around mates who had them in the late 90's when they just fell apart on the ride home from the dealers.
 
Like most new bikes I have owned the Gear lever was about a foot too high, I guessed they set it so someone with massive feet and huge boots can always get there foot under it, I lowered mine a "notch" and it is now almost as slick as any other gearbox I have used - and far slicker than the Super Tenere, which was a noticeable improvement over my 2008 GS (and I thought that was perfectly acceptable)

I dunno why the menu is confusing you, you scroll up / down to the item you want and then press the set button to adjust - I assume it must also take you hours to change the TV Channel on a modern TV or Sky Box?

The Favourites make it even easier by allowing you to put all the things you commonly adjust in one place, and the reality is once you stop fucking around for the sake of fucking around you do not alter the settings much - I think this is one of the issues fo test rides, people spend the entire ride fucking around with this kind of thing rather than getting a feel for the bike. This will soon become second nature (probably on any bike on the market)

Never ridden the SA or had a bike with cruise, will probably upgrade to the "Standard" 2017 model at some point to gain this, again I am sure whatever system it is you would get used to, and how often do you change the cruise, I think the whole point of it is for times when your not going to be doing anything other than maintaining a constant speed for ages, such as long motorway blasts across France, if you found you desperately needed it on a 2 hour test drive I would suggest you re-think the test route.

Remember you are buying a motorbike first and foremost, not a new smart phone, the fun is in using the same controls that have been on motorcycles for 100 years and still work the same way, buying an under-powered, slow and boring machine just because you like the menu screen seems like an own goal to me.

Same with this "messing around with a chain", I said I would never buy another chain driven bike, the effort to splodge some oil on every 500 or so miles and to check the adjustment every 1,000 or so miles does not play on my mind. At 4k it has not needed adjustment yet, and can now wait for the dealer service when it is a year old.

Chains are better than ever, the Mrs TDM 900 has done 28k and the chain is still OK (it does have a wheel, sorry I mean Scot Oiler fitted) the lubes are also better than yesteryear, it does tend to chuck some crap on the rear rim, but it is worth the trade off to me for the 50kg weight saving and 25+ BHP advantage the KTM has over the BMW / Yamaha offerings. If your clocking up huge mileages maybe the shaft is a big win, but for under 10,000 miles a year I cannot see it being that much - and a failed / worn chain is £100, you need to get about 300,000 miles from your BMW shaft drive for the same cost per mile.


If you are unsure I would ask for a longer test ride and get the gear lever set properly, maybe also wait for the 2017 Adventure models, you might find you also like the lesser weight, more is not always better.


I suppose there is also the Ducati MTS range, they look awesome, but I could not afford the servicing costs and fear the reliability, although mainly based around mates who had them in the late 90's when they just fell apart on the ride home from the dealers.

Jesus, I didn't know that my opinion can wind some one up so much, the anger and frustration is oozing from your write up, simply because someone doesn't like same thing you do.

I own a GS and have done 10k miles in 8.5 months. So yeah shaft drive does make sense to me.

Menu is very long winded and unlike the one on my GS is difficult to use by comparison. Getting used to it will likely sort that out.

Upon return when I commented on the fact that shift was to long, no one at the dealership has suggested it can be adjusted (reason why people aren't overly happy with KTM experience I guess)

The only thing that does attract me to KTM is the motor and 9k service intervals. I was expecting an all new 2017 1290 Super adventure to be fitted with an LCD display like you get on a 1290 SA R & S. new LED headlamp, etc. Not just a pair of letters "T" added to it, option of quick shifter and some new electronic stuff to meet EURO4 regs.

Here is the thing. I test rode a KTM for two hours and had to test/try everything on it to see if I could live with the thing. I found many things I liked and in equal measures the things that I didn't like. On the other hand I only had 1 hour maximum to test ride a GS and do same things I done with the SA, and ended up buying one on my return to the dealership. I did not have same feeling about the SA even though I rode it an hour longer.

All the best.

EV


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I own a GS and have done 10k miles in 8.5 months. So yeah shaft drive does make sense to me.

I've had two 1200 GS' and both did a shaft drive in at 30,000, chains are cheaper and a decent one will last 25,000.

Dave
 
How dare you not like the KTM, Ev, you complete swine!:rob:D
 
Good post, Rasher.;)

I've come from a Tiger 800 and wanted something gruntier and roomier for when taking the missus on pillion duties. Also mates I ride with on Tigers upgraded, one to an Explorer and one has a SuperTen. The Triumph is way too big and heavy, the S10 a bit easier to manage but had a gearbox that was really clunky and just felt a bit unwieldy. I took a Triple Black out on 2 demo rides, one with the pillion and it was ace at 2-up stuff and at the time did feel like a big improvement on the Tiger. However, it is pricey and would have meant putting down £1500, paying about £170 per month and still needing over £7k to buy it outright at the end of the 3 years.

Before I committed, I wanted to make sure the KTM 1190 Adventure wasn't a better bike, so I took one out for an hour. That was enough to convince me. The GS is a better bike for 2-up but the gearbox was as clunky as the S10 and the optional Gearshift Assist was a waste of time - okay on full power in higher gears but worse elsewhere. I just used the gearbox/clutch the way I normally do. The 1190 was a revelation - the first v-twin I'd ridden and I was expecting a shudder from the transmission when the revs dropped but it was pretty smooth. It didn't like pulling 6th unless you were at 4k revs but I could live with that. By Christ when you hang on to the revs the thing takes off - that's the bit that the GS just doesn't have. The BMW felt like it was running out of puff the more you rev it - the KTM revs harder the further up the range you go.

The little devil on my shoulder made me go for one. I managed to get a 15 month old 1190 Adventure, (standard, not the R model), with full luggage for £8500. It has an extended warranty for 3 years so that eases any reliability concerns, but in 3000 miles it's been faultless. Now on 13k miles and the chain and sprockets are all good, just cleaned the rear brakes and the pads are barely worn. I find the bars okay, the screen needed a lip added to reduce buffeting but TBH you put bits on any bike to personalise it for your tastes - rarely does a bike come out that fits everybody. Before I bought it I rang a mate who runs a Honda dealership and said "if I buy it at £8.5 grand and bring it in tomorrow in p/ex for an Africa Twin, how much will you give me?" He said £8.5k.........I figured even if I keep it a year and have to sell it for 5 grand it's still a heck of a lot cheaper that having a new GS. I've paid the same as I would have for the BMW........but without the 36 monthly payments of £170!!

I haven't ridden the 1290 but for me it's a non-starter as I believe it's even taller than the 1190. I don't have cruise control but have a Kaoko thingy that goes on the end of the throttle grip and you can hold the throttle open at any point - not as good as cruise but useful if you want to take your right hand off the bars for any reason.

I don't need a fuel tank bigger than the 23 litres the standard 1190 has - what is it with people going for the massive tanks?? the standard GS1200 is fine, the GSA just seems bigger and heavier. I know some people DO take it off the tarmac but I bet most don't. The S10 Worldcrosser my mate has, has an enormous fuel tank as well. It's all a bit pointless if you're riding with a group who normally stop at 200 miles anyway for a leg stretch, fuel, coffee etc. You end up filling it up and having half of it left when everyone else fills up the next time, so you're out of sync. Maybe people like having bikes as big as cars.....just can't see the point of riding a massive 250kg bike with full pannier kit on a Sunday jaunt - I'd rather have a slimline, lightish weapon that can do slow riding as well as balls-out sportsbike baiting.

I'd happily take the 1190 on a trackday. Ground clearance is immense, although the centre stand touches down on the left if you're in Marc Marquez mode. It's coped fine with broken tarmac'd back lanes, gravel tracks and dry grassy lanes. The big limiting factor is tyres, but that's the same for any bike. They've dropped the 1190 now and there are some cracking deals to be had. Don't like the look of the headlight on the newer models and the 1090 is down on power compared to mine so can't see me changing to anything KTM currently have......except maybe the 1290 SuperDuke GT.

The Beemer and the KTM are both excellent bikes. I'd happily have either, but in terms of fun per pound the KTM wins hands down in my book
 
Good post, Rasher.;)

I've come from a Tiger 800 and wanted something gruntier and roomier for when taking the missus on pillion duties. Also mates I ride with on Tigers upgraded, one to an Explorer and one has a SuperTen. The Triumph is way too big and heavy, the S10 a bit easier to manage but had a gearbox that was really clunky and just felt a bit unwieldy. I took a Triple Black out on 2 demo rides, one with the pillion and it was ace at 2-up stuff and at the time did feel like a big improvement on the Tiger. However, it is pricey and would have meant putting down £1500, paying about £170 per month and still needing over £7k to buy it outright at the end of the 3 years.

Before I committed, I wanted to make sure the KTM 1190 Adventure wasn't a better bike, so I took one out for an hour. That was enough to convince me. The GS is a better bike for 2-up but the gearbox was as clunky as the S10 and the optional Gearshift Assist was a waste of time - okay on full power in higher gears but worse elsewhere. I just used the gearbox/clutch the way I normally do. The 1190 was a revelation - the first v-twin I'd ridden and I was expecting a shudder from the transmission when the revs dropped but it was pretty smooth. It didn't like pulling 6th unless you were at 4k revs but I could live with that. By Christ when you hang on to the revs the thing takes off - that's the bit that the GS just doesn't have. The BMW felt like it was running out of puff the more you rev it - the KTM revs harder the further up the range you go.

The little devil on my shoulder made me go for one. I managed to get a 15 month old 1190 Adventure, (standard, not the R model), with full luggage for £8500. It has an extended warranty for 3 years so that eases any reliability concerns, but in 3000 miles it's been faultless. Now on 13k miles and the chain and sprockets are all good, just cleaned the rear brakes and the pads are barely worn. I find the bars okay, the screen needed a lip added to reduce buffeting but TBH you put bits on any bike to personalise it for your tastes - rarely does a bike come out that fits everybody. Before I bought it I rang a mate who runs a Honda dealership and said "if I buy it at £8.5 grand and bring it in tomorrow in p/ex for an Africa Twin, how much will you give me?" He said £8.5k.........I figured even if I keep it a year and have to sell it for 5 grand it's still a heck of a lot cheaper that having a new GS. I've paid the same as I would have for the BMW........but without the 36 monthly payments of £170!!

I haven't ridden the 1290 but for me it's a non-starter as I believe it's even taller than the 1190. I don't have cruise control but have a Kaoko thingy that goes on the end of the throttle grip and you can hold the throttle open at any point - not as good as cruise but useful if you want to take your right hand off the bars for any reason.

I don't need a fuel tank bigger than the 23 litres the standard 1190 has - what is it with people going for the massive tanks?? the standard GS1200 is fine, the GSA just seems bigger and heavier. I know some people DO take it off the tarmac but I bet most don't. The S10 Worldcrosser my mate has, has an enormous fuel tank as well. It's all a bit pointless if you're riding with a group who normally stop at 200 miles anyway for a leg stretch, fuel, coffee etc. You end up filling it up and having half of it left when everyone else fills up the next time, so you're out of sync. Maybe people like having bikes as big as cars.....just can't see the point of riding a massive 250kg bike with full pannier kit on a Sunday jaunt - I'd rather have a slimline, lightish weapon that can do slow riding as well as balls-out sportsbike baiting.

I'd happily take the 1190 on a trackday. Ground clearance is immense, although the centre stand touches down on the left if you're in Marc Marquez mode. It's coped fine with broken tarmac'd back lanes, gravel tracks and dry grassy lanes. The big limiting factor is tyres, but that's the same for any bike. They've dropped the 1190 now and there are some cracking deals to be had. Don't like the look of the headlight on the newer models and the 1090 is down on power compared to mine so can't see me changing to anything KTM currently have......except maybe the 1290 SuperDuke GT.

The Beemer and the KTM are both excellent bikes. I'd happily have either, but in terms of fun per pound the KTM wins hands down in my book

Now you gave me an idea. Since it is only 8 miles away I might give a Triumph Explorer XCA a go. 10k service intervals and no chain to worry about, well that suits me. Let me report back.


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Now you gave me an idea. Since it is only 8 miles away I might give a Triumph Explorer XCA a go. 10k service intervals and no chain to worry about, well that suits me. Let me report back.


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The Explorer is a good bike - tried one before I went for the KTM which I preferred as it's far more agile.

Try it and see.
 
The Explorer is a good bike - tried one before I went for the KTM which I preferred as it's far more agile.

Try it and see.

Thanks, will do.


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Don't want to take the thread off on a tangent ... but ....

Anybody know or heard when the new crop of 1290's are being launched?

Can't find anything on google .... :nenau
 
Nice bikes, just too physically big for a weakling like me. My mate's 6'4" so anything smaller looks like a child's bike under him!
Comes with quite a bit of kit as standard as well
 
Don't want to take the thread off on a tangent ... but ....

Anybody know or heard when the new crop of 1290's are being launched?

Can't find anything on google .... :nenau

I thought it was late Feb/March. 1090S already in dealers.
 
I thought it was late Feb/March. 1090S already in dealers.

:thumb2

That would certainly make sense for March registration, but from what I can see on the net, the journos haven't even had a launch yet .. (of the 1290's)
 
:thumb2

That would certainly make sense for March registration, but from what I can see on the net, the journos haven't even had a launch yet .. (of the 1290's)

Poor Cato, I'll give it 6 months :comfort :D
 

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Don't want to take the thread off on a tangent ... but ....

Anybody know or heard when the new crop of 1290's are being launched?

Can't find anything on google .... :nenau

Sometime in Feb/Early March.


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I had a 1290 for a day when my 1190 was being serviced and though the engine was a belter I wouldn't take one in preference to the 1190 even if the prices were the same. That's not to say it was a crap bike but it felt too big for me and the extra power wouldn't compensate for that.

Reliability my 1190 has been ok, it needs a new fuel sender (or maybe worse) because the fuel range to go reading sometimes doesn't work but leaving it overnight always sees it working the next morning and on longish days I know I'd always want a stop at 200 miles anyway.

Chain adjustment is a non event becuase I've got a Scottoiler fitted and it needed doing once in 5k miles.

Residuals would bother me if I'd paid full price (see what I did there?) or was in the habit of changing bikes regularly but if I like a bike I keep it long enough not to care and luckily for me I like the 1190.

Bad points? The bread bin luggage is the worst hard luggage I've ever known. I had to strip the mechanism to get one of the panniers off then put everything back together with threadlock compound to stop it happening again. Ok, I'd been riding on shit roads but it's an adventure bike! Apart from the shit latching mechanism they make the bike wobble at anything over 110mph and if I didn't want a bike that I can take over 110mph I'd buy a shitty mid range Honda :D

If I was in the market for a new bike in the litre plus adventure bike class I'd be having a test ride on a new 1090 then wait for the dealers to do me a favour.
 
I'm sure i read that there's a simple fix for the fuel sender problem. Take the float out and smooth it a bit so it doesn't stick IIRC.

There's also a new set of mounts for the panniers that wobble so the bike doesn't.

I took a 1290SA out when they first appeared. Great power. Liked it, but not enough to buy one to replace my 1190S. I Bought an 1190R to do that and haven't regretted it.
 
1090S and 1290S launched already in Spain - no sign of the 1290R yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCq2v6IOTvM

The shot towards the end whe they sho equipment of 1290 S showing LED auxiliary lights that are identical to BMW lights. So likelihood that these will be prone to blowing like BMW ones do.


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Don't want to take the thread off on a tangent ... but ....

Anybody know or heard when the new crop of 1290's are being launched?

Can't find anything on google .... :nenau

Straight from Crescent at the weekend;

The bikes they have ordered are showing a shipping date of late Feb (22nd I think) and should be with them for 1st week of March.

I expect to have mine PDI'd and ready to roll by Friday 10th of March.
 


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