What to buy? (to replace nicked DR-Z400E)

[WindyChuffer]

Good points Ing.

Have done some phone bashing today.

- DR-Z400E £4,400 OTR (road legal, but no indicators, so I guess a daytime MOT only)
- KTM 400 EXC £6,000 OTR (with indicators so full MOT).

No haggling done yet.

Service intervals seem about the same. Both have shimmed valves.

My take on things so far are that the DR-Z is perhaps older technology (nothing wrong with that), and the KTM has, so I am told, superb 'WP' suspension.

So a £1,600 premium for the KTM. Hmm, struggling with that as I am sure a DR-Z will do for an intermediate off roader who has no intentions of competing. Both will have strong residuals I think. KTM looks nicer and more modern, but then you don't stand there looking at it, you ride it.

Jap reliability vs questionable KTM reliability?

Suzuki dealers I spoke to seem a bit back-street, and KTM dealer seems to come across a bit more professional, but no doubt more expensive labour.

Off to KTM Centre @ Hemel tonight for a looksy.

[Note to self - leave wallet + ID at work and wait for insurance to pay out.]

 

[Greg Masters]

Jap reliability vs questionable KTM reliability?

The DR-Z reliability weakness appear to be limited to:

• Timing chain guide gives up the ghost at about 15-20k miles (£50-ish in parts plus a day's work)
• Generator windings occassionally fail (£150-ish in parts play ½-a-day's work)
• Magnesium clutch and generator covers are easily punched through if not protected (££££s plus a few hours work)
• I also got through 3 genuine clutch cables (but that's no big deal really) (£20 plus a few finger nails)

The rest of the stuff I did on my DR-Z was either routine maintenance or repairing damage sustained on the trails.

Greg

 

[Ing]

KTM looks nicer and more modern, but then you don't stand there looking at it, you ride it.

Jap reliability vs questionable KTM reliability?

QUOTE]

They all look much the same when covered in mud as they should be.

KTM's are basically reliable but you always feel more on edge. After a while you find yourself changing the oil at 10 hours instead of 15 just to be on the safe side.

KTM dealers and professional are not words I normally use in the same sentence, be prepared to do your own servicing

 

[D6]

u dont need indicators on a drz e, but u can have lights, theres a clause in the mot book 4 this

 

[Snoopy]

I humbly apologise.
I completely forgot how 'special' you are snoops

we see lots of DRZs in Morocco. in fact, we regularly piss off a French tour group who we see at some of the hotels near Tafraoute- they come in grinning only to find that we've been doing the same trails as them on GSs ...it soon wipes the smile off their faces

If you took your head out of your arse long enough to look around, you would know it's not bullshit

You said traveled down, which I took to mean from the UK. Looks like I'm not the only one that thought that's what you meant. You twat.

 

[WindyChuffer]

OK - Went to KTM dealer. Nice bikes. Was intrigued to hear dealer suggesting the 690 Enduro as a viable contender. On paper, weight is comparable to DR-Z400E @ 138.5kg + fuel (the 400EXC is 114kg +fuel).

He suggested that as i balked at the servicing intervals of the 400EXC, plus to adjust the valve clearances means cams out and hassle/labour charges. Plus I do need to do some road / motorway miles to and from the trails for which the EXC is "not really suited for".

The 690 has 3500mile service intervals; cool.

EXC has a 30 day warranty!!! 30 days FFS. Well you may as well not bother with a warranty; what a load of shite!!! 690 warranty is 2 yrs.

But am concerned about the extra weight, and potentially the higher centre of gravity. Ride height and suspension travel are less than the 400EXC, but then am I really going to need all that? I dunno. Thoughts? Suitable for green laning / wales trails 'n' rocks.

Seems to me the EXC range is a bit too competition biased and correspondingly too highly tuned for joe public who has no intention of racing.

An intriguing suggestion...

 

[david a hall]

That would be fun, but you would want to good, if it was steep and muddy then take a mate! gravel tracks with no danger of a picnic or an equine lurking in the bushes would be fun but, you wont be following greg up a mountain via a dry river bed .

 

[Rushy]

u dont need indicators on a drz e, but u can have lights, theres a clause in the mot book 4 this

Correct..........I dont think there is such a thing called a daylight MOT plus windy seems to be forgetting that his bike comes with lights

I think you you are not legally required to have indicators becuase you cannot carry a passenger. Summat like that

Hey Windy just like most blokes you've gone in to the parlour and been seduced by the goods on offer......how much more than a DRZ was the 690e by the way ...

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

BOLLOX

I was the only one mad enough to do this and NEVER AGAIN.

Suspension on my stock DRZ was brilliant and coped with everything I hit - the KTM suspension must be god like if its much better...

I missed something there then, I thought you gave up on the DRZ and smashed up Mickeys old 650 instead

And whilst DRZ suspension is good you truly have a lot to learn if you don't appreciate how much better modern KTM WP suspension is

Andres

 

[LiquidLAN]

Interesting set of responses, shame Honda dont still do the XR as that would seem to be a good contender on the bullet proof reliability side.

I can't claim to be a massively experiences off-roader (Dave-A will atest to that ) but I can't help but think most of the KTMs I've seen out and about dont seem to wear very well long term. Maybe its just that the doggy ones stick in my mind more, but I'm pretty sure I've encountered more rough sounding KTMs than anything else. Great bikes, but that's just the experience I've had.

Another thing that would seem (imho) to be against the KTM is that is a very much more desirable bike, you started this thread with "my bikes been knicked" it's a new KTM likely to be a more kickable target than another DRZ?

I've been riding a BE horse event for the last couple of days with a guy on a DRZ, I'd always thought them to be pretty good well built bikes, but he was commenting on the quality of some of the parts (bark breaker, etc) and their cost. Greg seems to be getting cables cheap enough, but it was suggested that Suzuki charge a premium on parts.

 

[WindyChuffer]

...plus windy seems to be forgetting that his bike comes with lights

Not forgetting at all. DR-Z only comes out of factory with dip beam + rear light.

It does not come with main beam or brake lights.

There is indeed an MOT for a vehicle that restricts its use to daylight only. No idea of the official name.

I have no idea on the intricacies of daylight vs nightime certification / MOT but easy to find out when I have the time.

 

[The White Rabbit]

I am a terrible off road rider and have a Beta 400 which has the KTM 400 EXC engine. Its very leisurely...putt...putt...putt, no bother. The 400 is the gentle one of the family. I don't really like going more than 25 miles or so on tarmac though (although obviously folks go much further). I rode a G540X in a quarry for about 5 mins and hated it in comparison, but it was too much of a handleful at my level so maybe a hopeless comparison.

What about a X-Challenge 6k service intervals, get one for around 4k, I sold mine for. There is a 690E that Harvonktm is looking for around (at least??) 4k for on Advrider, Europe, For Sale section.

 

[Snoopy]

I missed something there then, I thought you gave up on the DRZ and smashed up Mickeys old 650 instead

And whilst DRZ suspension is good you truly have a lot to learn if you don't appreciate how much better modern KTM WP suspension is

Andres

I've no idea 'cause I've never ridden a KTM offroad.

I just thought the DRZ suspension was really decent - relatively speaking to what I've ridden. The front suspension was as adjustable as the WP and was used stock on DRZ Dakar rally bikes. Why do people under-rate it?

Mickeys 650 was not smashed up, when it was stolen it was in better condition than when I bought it. Cue the sheep noise.

 

[Timpo]

FFS... too many multi-quotes to reply to now...

Right, early DRZ cam chain adjuster.... fails due to over revving chain slap (my 2000 model had no prob, yet enduro'd and rallied).
Only other issue was with rusty countershaft bush.
Gen failure seemed to be a batch of engines sold to CCM. No trace of issue on the DRZ sites I've looked, but would enjoy to hear proof elsewhere....
The DRZ access issue, I can tell you that there is nowhere on all the welsh trails I have riddden in the last 9 years where the DRZ has not been able to get me, and no doubt if I would of been astirde an austrian satsuma, I still would of been over the same ground.
An old bike racer told me when I was an apprentice, "if you put a donkey in a stable, it doesn't turn into a racehorse". That has stuck with me for some time......
Like I said in the past, I had a 2000 DRZ400 kickstarter model and it took 8 years of welsh pain and would not die, yet the jaffas came and went.
For sure though, my G450X will mingle into the numbers of enduro bikes that have flown by by night, but the DRZ will still be plodding away..... that is until I enter another enduro or rally.... then it won't be coming last, unless a dnf is on the sheet. The DRZs can still compete and deliver results, you will be surprised.... as most of the euro bike riders are when they get their eyes wiped......

Timpo.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

So.............are you any nearer deciding what to replace the DRZ with..............another DRZ

Andres

 

[WindyChuffer]

No idea yet. Its a minefield. Lots of dubious reviews without much substance, and lack of demonstrators with dealers. Nightmare.

No word from the cops or my insurer yet. Grrr.

But am going to try a KTM400EXC out - probably on an adysmith day, and get a days tuiition out of it too.

In the mean time, just got hold of a second set of wire wheels for my GSA, so will make do with that for now; easy change to knobblies.

M.

 

[WindyChuffer]

Am actually thinking of going down the BMW G450X route at the moment. Going to try one off road in next week or so.

BMW dealers have a reprint of the TBM mag review of this bike, which comes across as quite objective and positive. The core elements of this bike that appeal to me are:

- Same price as KTM400EXC
- 2yr warranty (against the KTM worthless 30 days!! FFS - what are those Austrians smoking?)
- Design features including the final output shaft / cog is in same place as trailing arm pivot point, so constant chain tension at all points of suspension. Leads to less cog / chain wear and more traction. Stainless steel frame - rust free etc... Read the review re-print - its a good read at least !

- Service intervals are a big thing for me on these bikes. The Official Service intervals, as follows:
** Every 10 hours, change oil and renew (or wash) air filter.
** Every 20-30 hours - check valve clearances.
** Every 70 hours - Engine strip down to measure wear on crankshaft / piston / valve / cam shafts etc.

BUT these are if you are racing it for all those hours.

Joe public (i.e. me) wont be racing. From the research I've done:

- I reckon its highly unlikely that in 3-4 years of joe-public non-racing use that the 70hr engine strip down would be needed.
- Besides, you can use the bike until the engine gives signs of needing TLC, that's the "unofficial" cue for the 70 hr service. Of course if you were racing, you wouldn't do that etc.

Will try one in the next couple of weeks and see how it goes. Will be looking for smoothness of power delivery and suitability to an intermediate off roader like myself, and ability of suspension to be set soft (out of the crate is race-firm).

Thoughts?

 

[ovenpaa]

A few points on the G450X -

I am not sure if BWM will accept the unofficial service indicator for 70 hours and mine is just about there now so I guess I should ask (No I will not be getting a rebuild at 70 hours before you ask)

The G450X is like a mountain goat and very easy to ride but can be quite focussed on occasion. Two of us ride G450X's on a Sunday and the one of the girls has just started on a Husky 250 - common opinion is it is a nicer bike than the 450 and every bit as capable. From what I saw it certainly coped will with what it was shown last weekend and was very impressive.

You can get some storming deals on the G450X right now.

They crash well in my hands at least

 

[WindyChuffer]

ovenpaa - tell us more about the storming deals? What sort of deals have you come across, and from where?

Thx
Mike.

 

[ovenpaa]

I picked my bike up end of October last year where the best deal was 'Yes you can have one' however they did knock a couple of hundred quid off as well. I know of two people who have picked up ex dealership Director bikes with a few bits of bling on several hundred below list as they were registered and I am sure more deals can be had as it is quite a niche market machine.

I am in mid Bedfordshire right now and we go out most Sunday mornings (07:00 start ) You are welcome to call up and have a play.