X-challenge, hot/cold starting procedure and stalling.

Timpo

Timpo

North Wales TRF
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Looking again at the cold and hot starting, and stalling issues with the X-challenge.
I am wondering if there is a variation in these bikes, ie, on all the XCs produced, does the headlight come on when the ignition switch is turned on, so before hitting the start button and starting the engine, is the headlight illuminated?
Folk have discribed having more of an issue if the bike is stopped and restarted several times during a short period, thus leading me to think there is a battery recharge issue that is somehow upsetting the ignition system, mainly the TPS (#2) and/or the Idle Control Device (#6)......

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Headlight comes on with mine everytime I turn on the ignition

If I leave the ignition on & use the kill switch to turn on & off (taking a pic etc), all the lights stay on

My bike starts hot & cold within 2-5 cranks, always

Only time it takes say 20 cranks is when I change & re-oil the airfilter

Then the ecu needs to adjust the air mixture to take account of the fresh oil on the airfilter

Apart from that it starts fine hot or cold

I do have it serviced by my dealer every year, so perhaps they they plug it into the BMW computer to clear any fault codes & make sure it's tickety boo :)
 
My headlight comes on with the ignition as Johnnys, but I have a extra switch on it so I can bypass that if wanted.

It has always started every single time hot or cold within two cranks.

There is a known failure (that is gradual) of shorting in the ignition barrel that can look like battery or fuelling issues. Happened to both me and Ferret.
 
I thought I read somewhere that the headlight comes on with the ignition but as soon as you start cranking the headlight goes out until the starter button is released.

Apparently fitted to alot of the the euro spec headlights to divert all the battery power to starting because you can't turn the light off.
 
The stalling issue is worse than ever today....though the incoming air temperature is the lowest it's been for a while whilst using this XC.
Yet there are no fault codes shown, and temp sensors are 'working' ok....?

It's almost got me flummoxed....:nenau But reading on advrider, some of the Yanks are having this stalling issue too.
 
Timpo said:
The stalling issue is worse than ever today....though the incoming air temperature is the lowest it's been for a while whilst using this XC.
Yet there are no fault codes shown, and temp sensors are 'working' ok....?

It's almost got me flummoxed....:nenau But reading on advrider, some of the Yanks are having this stalling issue too.
Click to expand...

I also get this occasionally. i did wonder if the problem was made slightly worse by not having a thermostat on the bike- the issue seems to be more noticeable after a steady road run (low throttle openings) in cold conditions, which may account for the radiator over cooling the engine.

Combined with the lean nature these bikes run at i do wonder if this could be a contributing factor?

I seem to remember (i think it was Rossi that discovered it? ) that disconnecting the lamba sensor put the bike on a different map, that made the engine run 10% richer. worth a try?

I've stripped and cleaned the throttle body, which was full of shite.

have you checked your valve clearances of late? the gap on the inlet side is very small, and it doesn't take a lot to close this gap up to the point it is non-existent.

I assume you've re-calibrated the tps?

Pinky tiff had this stalling issue which magically disappeared after switching the ignition on, waiting for the lights to clear, then opening and closing the throttle on a dead engine, before switching off and trying the bike again.
 
Losttheplot said:
I also get this occasionally. i did wonder if the problem was made slightly worse by not having a thermostat on the bike- the issue seems to be more noticeable after a steady road run (low throttle openings) in cold conditions, which may account for the radiator over cooling the engine.

Combined with the lean nature these bikes run at i do wonder if this could be a contributing factor?

I seem to remember (i think it was Rossi that discovered it? ) that disconnecting the lamba sensor put the bike on a different map, that made the engine run 10% richer. worth a try?

I've stripped and cleaned the throttle body, which was full of shite.

have you checked your valve clearances of late? the gap on the inlet side is very small, and it doesn't take a lot to close this gap up to the point it is non-existent.
Click to expand...

10% richer was only with an injector flowing 10% more than stock. Disconnecting the lambda sensor was necessary to stop the bike trying to lean the mixture out to compensate. Ran better but used more fuel, about 10% more funnily enough.

I also have stalling sometimes but only on a cold bike from idle. Starts fine but 100m down the road when I come to a junction it can die if I don't keep the revs up. A few miles down the road and it is fine. I also have a larger rad without a stat.

I'm going to pull the cams out this week and reshim. Last time I checked I couldn't get the feeler gauge under one of the inlet valves. Since my thinnest gauge was .05 and the spec is.03 I figure that if it running OK it is probably fine. I reckon it is probably worth changing the shims now though.

I keep thinking that locknuts are easier to adjust but the flip side is that they need doing more often. 44k miles now and this will be the first time they have been adjusted.
 
rossi said:
10% richer was only with an injector flowing 10% more than stock. Disconnecting the lambda sensor was necessary to stop the bike trying to lean the mixture out to compensate. Ran better but used more fuel, about 10% more funnily enough.


I keep thinking that locknuts are easier to adjust but the flip side is that they need doing more often. 44k miles now and this will be the first time they have been adjusted.
Click to expand...

Ah! i stand corrected about the mixture adjustment.

The shims are actually pretty simple to do- do you have a reprom/workshop manual that still works?
 
Losttheplot said:
Ah! i stand corrected about the mixture adjustment.

The shims are actually pretty simple to do- do you have a reprom/workshop manual that still works?
Click to expand...

Got it loaded on my hard drive.
it looks fairly straightforward. The hardest part may be getting my shed clean and tidy before I start. I wish I knew what the current shims were though as I can't order new ones without knowing what's in there.
 
Mine does this too every so often – the stalling that is. I thought for a while it was something to do with me brimming the tank as it seemed to happen after a couple of fill ups but I think that was just coincidence as it's happened in various states of tank-fill.

No rhyme or reason or pattern to it that I've yet figured out, I can ride in to work in the morning and it'll be perfect but get on it in the evening and it'll conk out at every junction or set of lights unless I manually keep the revs up. Makes for a stressful ride home through already murderous London traffic!
 
i took my actuator apart as found inside it was full of crap also

didnt work 1st time but when took it apart the 2nd time its been fine since
 
Timpo said:
Yeah, done that, the idle valve waas cleaned out too, and it wasn't that bad to be fair....



Several times and makes no difference.
Click to expand...

Thought you probably had, just asked as a matter of process.

Any further ideas as to what is causing it?
 
Robster said:
Mine does this too every so often – the stalling that is. I thought for a while it was something to do with me brimming the tank as it seemed to happen after a couple of fill ups but I think that was just coincidence as it's happened in various states of tank-fill.

No rhyme or reason or pattern to it that I've yet figured out, I can ride in to work in the morning and it'll be perfect but get on it in the evening and it'll conk out at every junction or set of lights unless I manually keep the revs up. Makes for a stressful ride home through already murderous London traffic!
Click to expand...

Next time this happens, pull up to the side of the road and switch bike off. Make sure the throttle is in its correct rest position, turn ignition on and wait till lights clear, + a few seconds, start the bike again without touching the throttle. This re-sets the throttle position sensor and should clear the problem. Works for me every time.

I find that this problem occurs mostly if I have started the bike too quickly and haven't given the throttle position sensor time to reset. Its not 100% as I am sure I've had the stalling issue a couple times after not rushing the startup procedure. I recon its just one of the quirks of owning this x series bike.
 
Losttheplot said:
Any further ideas as to what is causing it?
Click to expand...

Now, yes.....
I was talking to a bloke a couple of days ago, and he was saying that the XC fuelling curve was on the lean side, so with any airbox and exhaust mods the fuelling when in lower air temps was causing stalling. This makes sense as last week in Portugal, not once did my bike cough or fart, never mind stall, it was perfect all trip.
So, I believe there are a couple of options, one being a 'blackbox' off a guy in Belgium/Holland borderlands that fools the Air Temp Sensor and the Coolant Temp Sensors that they are reading colder so fuel delivery in increased slightly. And another option is to put a re-map curve in to the ecu which is from a later 650 rotax engined bike, I need to read into this from advrider.com as to which model exactly it is. Off the top of his head, he thought a G650GS but wasn't 100%. So, this got me thinking about the Husky Terra, is the 'breathed on' engine claimed just a slightly high tune of curve in the ecu.....?
I'll be spending sometime in advrider during the next day or two!:thumb

Timpo.
 
Timpo said:
And another option is to put a re-map curve in to the ecu which is from a later 650 rotax engined bike, I need to read into this from advrider.com as to which model exactly it is. Off the top of his head, he thought a G650GS but wasn't 100%. So, this got me thinking about the Husky Terra, is the 'breathed on' engine claimed just a slightly high tune of curve in the ecu.....?
I'll be spending sometime in advrider during the next day or two!:thumb

Timpo.
Click to expand...

IIRC the sales blurb for the husky terra claimed it had a "reworked cylinder head, new cams and higher compression piston".

Would be good to know if it is just a different map- it may turn out to be a very cheap mod. :D

Are you still running a stock exhaust timpo?
 
Timpo said:
Now, yes.....
I was talking to a bloke a couple of days ago, and he was saying that the XC fuelling curve was on the lean side, so with any airbox and exhaust mods the fuelling when in lower air temps was causing stalling. This makes sense as last week in Portugal, not once did my bike cough or fart, never mind stall, it was perfect all trip.
So, I believe there are a couple of options, one being a 'blackbox' off a guy in Belgium/Holland borderlands that fools the Air Temp Sensor and the Coolant Temp Sensors that they are reading colder so fuel delivery in increased slightly. And another option is to put a re-map curve in to the ecu which is from a later 650 rotax engined bike, I need to read into this from advrider.com as to which model exactly it is. Off the top of his head, he thought a G650GS but wasn't 100%. So, this got me thinking about the Husky Terra, is the 'breathed on' engine claimed just a slightly high tune of curve in the ecu.....?
I'll be spending sometime in advrider during the next day or two!:thumb

Timpo.
Click to expand...

Timpo, are you thinking of the 'booster plug'? I tried one but it increased my fuel consumption quite a bit. Its still fitted on my bike but not connected. They are real easy to fit though and can be left disconnected. They fit just under the left side cover.

Mike
 
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