Xenon's emitted heat, how much compared to a regular halogen?

Tsiklonaut

Tsiklonaut

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So, how much the Xenon HIDs emit heat compared to regular halogen bulbs?

Thinking about the possibility to put two Xenons into the Touratech/Wunderlich twin headlights i have, but they have plastic reflectors and 35W halogens max are recommended by make coz of the heat issue.

Anyone knows how much heat the Xenons emit? They should emit alot less heat, right?
 
I was interested in this answer - but found this.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight#HID_Headlamps


Vehicles equipped with HID headlamps are required by ECE regulation 48 also to be equipped with headlamp lens cleaning systems and automatic beam levelling control. Both of these measures are intended to reduce the tendency for high-output headlamps to cause high levels of glare to other road users.


haven't found the heat answer yet :mmmm
 
There's also this:

The arc within an HID headlamp bulb generates considerable short-wave ultraviolet (UV) light, but none of it escapes the bulb. A UV-absorbing hard glass shield is incorporated around the bulb's arc tube. This is important to prevent degradation of UV-sensitive components and materials in headlamps, such as polycarbonate lenses and reflector hardcoats. The lamps do emit considerable near-UV light).

I'm wondering if the UV will eat the plastic reflectors. Still it looks to me they don't create much heat coz the spectrum is very similar to a daylight one (regular bulb emits most of it's energy into infra-red [heat] zone).

Maybe swopping the stock reflector back and put some more powerful Xenon in there? Only 1 ballast needed too and 2 times less cost compared to twin headlights. Worth a try?
 
Read the spec. Watts is watts, doesn'y matter whether it's Halogen, HID or anything else. Generally, HID lamps consume far less power thus run cooler.

Regards to all,

Phil Thomas
 
Phil Thomas said:
Read the spec. Watts is watts, doesn'y matter whether it's Halogen, HID or anything else. Generally, HID lamps consume far less power thus run cooler.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about that, you're comparing two different technologies, glowing wire versus electric arc. If it was my plastic reflector I'd try it though especially if I still had the original to fall back on.

The spec on the kit I used states that it has a UV blocking treatment so the plastic shouldn't degrade from that.
 
Phil Thomas said:
Read the spec. Watts is watts, doesn'y matter whether it's Halogen, HID or anything else. Generally, HID lamps consume far less power thus run cooler.
Click to expand...
I'm with him.

:rob

If we were talking electric fires, the 60 watt fire would give out more than the 35 watt fire. ;)

Cue big foreheaded, brainy engineer type to rain all over my theory...... :ymca
 
It's the energy conservation rule. The same given energy to the source is given away in the same amount, i.e. 60 watts, but from the local heat issue point of view it depends on the energy spectrum distribution from which all this 60 watts is given away with. Regular bulbs give away most of it's energy in the infra-red zone and very little in the visible light zone, but some HID technology cuts off the IR part and transfers this part of energy into the visible range that's more effective to us, meaning they don't do much heat (no IR "light" to absorb into surrounding materials) while they do more light (more energy into visible light zone that doesn't create heat).

So the answer is there, they DO run cooler with the same wattage, the reason is that they create much more visible light per the same power :thumb . Only issue could be with the UV, but in theory, a dense glass housing that the bulb already has should cut it considerably as stated before.
 
motomartin said:
I was interested in this answer - but found this.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlight#HID_Headlamps

Vehicles equipped with HID headlamps are required by ECE regulation 48 also to be equipped with headlamp lens cleaning systems and automatic beam levelling control. Both of these measures are intended to reduce the tendency for high-output headlamps to cause high levels of glare to other road users.

haven't found the heat answer yet :mmmm
Click to expand...

For the record, you can read ECE 48 here: http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r048r4e.pdf

The very first paragraph, #1 (top of page 5) says "This Regulation applies to the approval of power-driven vehicles intended for use on the road, with or without bodywork, with not less than four wheels"

i.e. It is not applicable for motorcycles (or reliant robins)

Even for cars however ... The self levelling and cleaning bit does not apply to driving lights ...only to dipped beam lights. And it does not apply to HID lights specifically, but rather to any lights with greater than 2000 lumens output. So 21 watt HIDs (About 1800 lumen output) would not be affected.

See 6.2.9 of ECE 48

- - -

On to motorcycles, which is covered by ECE 53 I believe ... (http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/53rv1e.pdf)

I can find no mention in there at all about self levelling and cleaning whatsoever.
 
The totally non-scientific and completely subjective answer is that by touch the lens is a lot cooler after an hour of HID light than the original 55W Quartz-Halogen lighting...
 
Colebatch said:
On to motorcycles, which is covered by ECE 53 I believe ... (http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/53rv1e.pdf)

I can find no mention in there at all about self levelling and cleaning whatsoever.
Click to expand...


Yes, that's right.
BUT you woun't find HIDs on the list of approved light sources.

HOPE:
postponed from autumn 2006 (problems with the location moscow) there will be a new ECE working group meeting spring 2007 where they discuss a proposal from the motorcycle manufacturers association to add HIDs to the ECE regulation.
Due to this proposal a headlamp leveliing device is needed which can be operated from the drivers seat.

BUT:
This woun't legalize conversion kits.

Regards

Dietmar
 
The GS's lights (on the 1150 and 1200 for sure) can be levelled from the drivers seat. Anyway why you worried so much. Far more plasticrockets with illegal tyres and exhausts for the law to chase. I'd rather go against the EC and stay alive than die trying to survive with the shite headlights BM decided to fit first time around :D

Many cars have HID and plastic lenses so I wouldn't be concerned about fitting them to plastic lenses.
 
Flipfly said:
The GS's lights (on the 1150 and 1200 for sure) can be levelled from the drivers seat.
Click to expand...

I should have added "while driving" which describes better the intention
(but's not written in the proposal) => up/down switch like for ordinary headlamp levelling. I guess that the same equipment may be used so that the costs may ber reasonable.

Flipfly said:
I'd rather go against the EC and stay alive than die trying to survive with the shite headlights BM decided to fit first time around
Click to expand...
Everybody has to decide by him/herself what they do, but I can't agree that the original headlights will risk a life.
In this case mounting illegal HID will risk the life of others (HID glare on a accelerating R1200GS may last very long...)


Regards

Dietmar
 
The beam pattern on the original lights is terrible and I found it dangerous, especially when it is raining (my old 20year old mini lights were better!!!). The HID conversion is a considerable improvement, and if correctly set, will not blind oncoming traffic, I have not been flashed at since I have adjusted the lights correctly.
Correctly positioned lights should not blind oncoming traffic no matter how bright. The brightest portion of the beam should always be facing toward the kerb, so no matter how hard you accelerate, the beam should only ever blind pedestrians and cars in junctions.
I'll stick with my HID no matter what the idiots in the EC, who generally don't ride bikes, say.
 
@Flipfly:

A happy new year to U.

If you set up the light to a good (and correct) visibility range during constant driving there will be enormous dazzling during harder acceleration even if the oncoming traffic woun't indicate this by flashing.
Just try it in the dark and see where you lights are aiming - look into the faces in the oncoming cars.

Therefore even for cars (!) the dynamic headlamp levelling system was development to shorten that time.

And the headlight of the R1200GS is not that bad as you indicates.
There had been a comparision test between several motorcycle headlamps and it was one of the best (out of this test).
There are sone characteristics which might be (as we call it:) "sub"optimal:
- "hard" cut-off line - older headlamps with less power were smoother, but nearly every modern headlamp has a hard cut-off
- loss of visibility during braking especially poor because the voltage drop caused by the servo brake.

Regards

Dietmar
 
I've had a HID in my dipped beam for just over a year now and it does not get as hot as a halogen bulb.

It gives a much brighter light and reaches slightly further than the OE but I think the spread is still limited by the BMW reflector.

It's worth doing if you don't have BTBRs excellent additional light setup:thumb
 
There's an article in this week's Auto Express (UK car magazine) about the issues and legalities of fitting after-market HID kits to cars. I'll post the link once its online in a couple of days time.

They don't major on the levelling problem, rather on the fact that the beam pattern can look radically different when using a HID bulb compared to halogen bulb, providing more light leakage and glare and also the possibility of an MOT failure. Mind you, they have tested it on a 1997 Renault Megane........:rolleyes:

The article also points out that lighting deficiencies (including blown / defective bulbs) are not likely to be spotted or picked up by police patrols as they are being replaced by cameras (so, hey, it might be illegal but the chances of getting caught are small)........but then we knew that anyway, didn't we?;)
 
Dietmar said:
@Flipfly:

A happy new year to U.

If you set up the light to a good (and correct) visibility range during constant driving there will be enormous dazzling during harder acceleration even if the oncoming traffic woun't indicate this by flashing.
Just try it in the dark and see where you lights are aiming - look into the faces in the oncoming cars.

Therefore even for cars (!) the dynamic headlamp levelling system was development to shorten that time.

And the headlight of the R1200GS is not that bad as you indicates.
There had been a comparision test between several motorcycle headlamps and it was one of the best (out of this test).
There are sone characteristics which might be (as we call it:) "sub"optimal:
- "hard" cut-off line - older headlamps with less power were smoother, but nearly every modern headlamp has a hard cut-off
- loss of visibility during braking especially poor because the voltage drop caused by the servo brake.

Regards

Dietmar
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in how the BMW standard lights compare with other bikes. I just want to be able to see on a dark wet night and as many people on this site have stated the standard 1150GS lamps are pitiful, appaling, dangerously feeble and completely unacceptable.

HID conversion to both dipped and head beam transform a dreadful setup into a very good one. I do not have any issue with the beam pattern from either light, just the amount of light from the standard lamps.

The hard cut off does ensure that oncoming drivers are not dazzled on dip beam and the variation in the angle of the lights between accelerating, steady speed and braking is small due to the telelever-paralever suspension.

Additionally I believe that the reference to a reduction of light during braking due to the servo drawing power is nonsense. This would only be an issue where additional electrical equipment was drawing more than the alternator could produce and with a low battery charge. (And yes I do have a servo braked 1150GS)

I agree with Flipfly, drivers don't flash lights at me and here in the UK if your lights dazzle other people they soon put headbeam on to advise you of the situation. I do however make sure that I adjust the rear suspension to take account of panniers and the goods in them.
 
I am glad somebody elae has come to back me up with this. HID is a very popular mod for all the reasons stated.

I gave up trying to persuade a guy that obviously won't admit that the standard lights are poo. When you've ridden Hondas you start to appreciate how bad the BM lights are.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying HID power.The best £40 I've ever spent.
Let us all hope that Dietmar won't have the final say in the EC rules :eek:
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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