Y Pieces

Rob, r u sure it's the y piece and not the cam?

I need to fit the standard cam, standard jetting and have another dyno run with just the Y piece fitted.

The bikes jetted the same as an 83 RS (160 main jets), the Dyno guys saying the jetting is correct but the needles are too high. Both the RS and GS should have their needles on the 3rd notch from the top. This afternoon I've dropped mine to the 1st notch and the bike is noticeably quicker and cleaner through the rev range...strange because you would expect a less restrictive exhaust and sports cam to need more fuel :nenau
 
It’s best to do this with newly overhauled carbs.
The needles and jets (the one needle goes through) should be renewed; otherwise you have no reference for later use.

Different cams should not affect the fuel-ratio that much. I would have aimed to get a fuel-ratio close to 14, mine has 14.2-14.3 and that’s a tad to fat.
 
The standard air box is pretty restrictive , so if you up the suction from the engine you are going to suck in more fuel as well.

Try unclipping the trumpets from the air box - you can always just clip them back in if it doesnt make things better.

If you believe everything you read tuning it all about getting pulses of dense air moving through the complete system at correct time.

The theory is that if you get it right you have a better signal/suction at the carb ,to suck up the juice , than a nice dense pulse to overfill the cylinder.

So dont panic just yet, you might be getting close , with the pulses about right, but the mixture or airflow just needing a bit final tuning.
 
Just tidying up some loose ends and came across the dyno runs for my Sexton built motor...

Cheers

Sean

http://bayimg.com/dANhjaaBN

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Mine got a 320 degree cam - whatever that is, some sort of high torque thing ;-)

There are multiple 320° camshafts, some are nice but not all.
I don’t know the modifications you have done on your bike but with a 1000 you should have at least 48 Ft-lb at 3500 rpm. You are at least 10% below that value.

Maybe you have the BMW-320° camshaft developed to meet the Swiss requirements of noise and pollution?
 
I think some of the problem with the Y pieces is sealing the system.

People who claim that they dont work also claim that they cause popping and farting, both signs of air leaks.

When I fitted mine i made new gaskets out of a bit soft aluminium flashing, but it was too soft and soon worked its way out.

Result was exactly the same as others have described , including the flat spot.

BMW Oz or their dealers have next to SFA in the way of spare parts, so new gaskets weren't an option .

I borrowed a plumbers pipe expander and enlarged the ends of the pipes until they were a neat fit, then assembled the system with high temp silicone.

Result is a perfect seal , and the bike is running better than ever.

So, if you are fitting the Y piece shell out the six quid each for the new gaskets and seal up the system with high temp silicone too, before you start looking for other faults.

And I feel that enlarging the inlet hole in to the baffles and adding one to the outlet baffle helps things too.
 
I think some of the problem with the Y pieces is sealing the system.

People who claim that they dont work also claim that they cause popping and farting, both signs of air leaks.

I’m pretty sure my y-pipe didn’t leak, but it had a tendency to fart at overrun.

A while ago I had contact with HPN because I wanted to switch to Baja exhaust. They asked me abut the engine-configuration and replied:

HPN said:
The Baja exhaust should fit the configuration but we do not recommend a Y-pipe as to our Dyno-tests you loose a lot of midrange power

Luckily I have two R80s, one with Siebenrock-kit and some other modifications and one standard. The one with the Siebenrock-kit was equipped with an Y-pipe and the other one with a collector box.


I swapped the y-pipes and collector box. It made a huge difference!
As HPN suggested I gained a lot of midrange power on the modified engine, the standard engine got noisy and the power drastically reduced.
Both engines had to be balanced after the change….

No, I don’t have any numbers to confirm this, but I do have 57.5 Ft-lb at 3500 rpm with stock exhaust.

The y-pipe was of this type:
ybox.jpg
 
Interesting developments here on this subject. I'm now inclined to try fitting the Y piece to see if there is a notable difference. When I changed mine over I did the complete system from front to rear so perhaps didn't notice any significant changes in performance over the standard system. I fitted Kehin Headers without cross over tube, Kehin Y Piece, into Inter pipe and End can from Scorpion. The Scorpion end can is really nice bit of kit and has a removable baffle if you want a free flow system othewise leave the baffle tube in situ and it's less inclined to fart and pop and sounds really nice by comparison to the OEM. Which I have always thought sounded like a wet fart..... if you know what I mean?
 
The problems with mine turned out to be the camchain being one tooth out. I'm suprised it ran but at least explains the feeble 37BHP on the dyno. It was supposed to have a sports cam as well but turned out to be a standard 308 Degree item. Setting the camchain timing made a hell of a difference to the bikes performance (no shit sherlock :rolleyes:)

I'm currently running a pair of 77RS carbs with the original jetting and needle positions. The bikes nice and smooth but is not jetted correctly at the top end. Runing the standard jetting made for a very vibey midrange. I'm intending to buy a standard collector box and do away with the Y piece completely putting the standard jetting back in place at the same time.
 
Rob,

when you've done - will you please take my Guzzi Cali 3 fitted with 'H' piece, 1' long straight 'intermediate' pipes and V11 Sport cans and get that right for me? :augie

(well - i can hope cant i? ) :D
 
I can fix that in no tme at all Og. I'll toss it into the Liffey and all the problems will disappear instantly :comfort
 
My experience with a y-piece

My bike runs like a dream.
But it is modified in many respects, I'll elaborate.

I have a little opened up air box, with K&N free flowing element. The carbes were renewed - all jets, needles' diaphragm etc replaced. leading edge of carb slide smoothed. all intake junctions smoothed.
Intake and exhaust ports were lightly ported - no change in section or gas flowd, just smoothed to the max.
Original pipes, a German made Y-piece, a modified Laser end can - more opened up.
1000cc Siebenrock kit.

The carb tune was changed from standard - needles are higher up than standard, dont recall how much.

I changed to the Y-piece when my collector box rotted out. When I mounted it, I couldn't use full throttle as it was detonating like mad. I put in bigger mains and the bike ran like a mad dog.

I is lowder than standard BMW, no doupt. But not to the point it makes my neighbors angry. I ride with ear plugs regardless.

One more important thing - Alibaba metioned also - you must start with comletely new jets and needles before any conclutions. Needles in particular, tend to erode, together with their respective jets, exactly where they work most of the time - midrange. The vibrations causes it. Mine had, when I bought the bike, a dancer's waistline.

Miky
 
Here's my Dyno reading the day before we went to Morocco thought I would see if I had set it up by feel was ok. It wasn't The Needles were toast,Shop cleaned and rebuilt the carbs to my settings and jets....
Cain Dyno Red GS Graph.jpg
dyno reading text.jpg

Viv the Cambridge M/C DYNO MANrecons I still need more air!! and Chris Cambridge M/C German BM man(mechanic) recons on triming the internal trumpets and removing the oil shitanhousen pipes from them as well.
Will start making a plate to fit on top of the airbox soon with a round filter like HPN :cool:
 
You still have a dip in the midrange BHP around the 75 KPH mark Cain even with the new jets and cleaned carbs. Thats exactly where mine is. If you look at Wreford's plot his is much better and steps up in power at this point.

Now if Judge had got his act together and posted his dyno run with the collector box fitted we would have something to compare them to :augie
 
You still have a dip in the midrange BHP around the 75 MPH mark Cain even with the new jets and cleaned carbs. Thats exactly where mine is. If you look at Wreford's plot his is much better and steps up in power at this point.

Now if Judge had got his act together and posted his dyno run with the collector box fitted we would have something to compare them to :augie

It would be good to see Judge's:D

I'm also running a HPN Baja Silencer, I'm also thinking of making a balance pipe for the downpipes as mine S/S dont have one, As for Wrefords plot is it the cam that give's him the better plot?:drool
 
Being a sad git. I've just transposed all the data to an excel spreadsheet. Quite interesting when the data is standardised.

BamBams bike is throwing out quite a bit more power lower down than the standard bike but runs out of steam. Mine was just shagged :(
 

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