First trip to alps and first trip with passenger/luggage

Bateman · May 19, 2005

I am heading down to the Alps in July for a few days and will be riding from Albertville through Chamonix and up to Andermatt. The intention is to follow some of the routes in "Motorcycle Journeys through the Alps". Originally I was going on my own but now a friend is keen on coming on the back. The furthest I've been with a passenger and some luggage is Le Mans which wasn't exactly twisty and steep.

Can anyone give me some advice about riding some of the passes two-up with luggage. I can picture myself toppling over on the hairpins - presumably the bike (03 1150GS) is fine loaded up. I am 14st and the pillion is about 12st. I don't want to get all the way there and find that I'll have to leave my pillion in the hotel whilst I go and explore. Also, I've got Trailwings on the bike and am thinking of putting 020s on for the trip - would that be better? Thanks in advance....

BAKERMAN · May 19, 2005

Leave both at home !

Fanum · May 19, 2005

I'd imagine that by the time you get down there with your pillion, you'll be so used to him/her being there that you won't notice...I always find it's only the first ten minutes that makes me wobble, after that you automatically compensate.

Bike should be fine with that weight..just wind up the suspension a bit..again, you'll have plenty of time to tweak that on the way down . ( I won't tell you how much weight I take on mine but it's significantly more with both of us on

)

I'd definately ditch the deathwings....have a read of the tyre FAQ....they're the least liked of all GS OEM tyre fitments......

020's would be the sporty choice, tkc's the rugged choice (but still excellent on road) but TBH If I were doing that two up, I'd go for tourences....

Have a good trip and welcome aboard

Aidan1150 · May 19, 2005

Hi Bateman,

What dates will you be around Andermatt?

I will be heading from there, via Chamonix to Geneva on Saturday 16 July. Might see you along the way?

Bateman · May 20, 2005

Thanks for this. Aidan - I will actually be there during the first week of July, until the 4th. I am going to go from Le Havre to Albertville on Day 1, then days 2-4 in Andermatt, and back home day 5. Do I still need to buy a vignette in Switzerland if I am just there for 3 days - are they expensive? Think I'll invest in some decent waterproofs as well as my current kit (Frank Thomas) is useless, and look into those Tourances, though I never go off road.

It was a toss up between this or the meeting in Garmisch and this came up heads. Thanks again.

sparkplug · May 20, 2005

Having done most of my touring two up with luggage my suggestions to you would be:

Be ruthless about what you take. You actually need a lot less than you think you do. This will help to keep weight down. Keep as much of the weight low down as you can (don't fill your top box with lead) as this will help.

Be confident. By the time you get to the mountains you will be familiar with your pillion and you will be used to the weight and handling on the bike. Use this confidence when going up the hills and you will be fine.

Final bit of advice - enjoy yourself! It's a great route and you will love it.

Gecko · May 20, 2005

Make sure your brakes are in tip-top condition. That means more than just a quick look at the pad wear marks but clean them well - think when did you last replace brake fluid and are your disks in good shape - because you'll be using those brakes on the descents !!!

Paul Narramore · May 20, 2005

My wife and I rode the Pan down to Austria last summer and we rode up the pass I'd read so much about, Stelvio. So two up, a very heavy bike but no luggage as this was left at the hotel in Landeck, Austria.
The hairpins on Stelvio are all numbered, 41(?) being the first at the bottom, finishing with 1 at the top. I had to take each hairpin in 1st gear and at less than 10mph and the left handers were the easiest as you're going around the outside. The right handers were a worry. It's easy to think that as you approach them, just look over your shoulder and see what's coming, but all you see is the shear face of a stone wall. I tried taking them wider and wider to keep the speed up, until finally a cam face to face with an oncoming car. I had to stop and the missus jumped off as I paddled around the bend slipping the clutch like a novice. I was knackered by the time we reached the top but relieved we'd done it.
I guess that few other passes have such extreme hairpins but I can't be sure.
The following day we rented a Triumph Tiger which the hotel (motorcycle-friendly Hotel Enzian) had available and we literally sailed up another pass to see a glacier. The Triumph was much lighter than the Pan with excellent low down power.
Prior to going to Austria, I fitted new pads front and back, and bled the brakes.
I didn't get a Swizz vignette as we didn't use their autobahns and the Austrian vinette cost about £8 I think for three weeks.
The attachment is a pic of the Passo de Stelvio (Stilfserjoch) which peaks at 9046ft.

Paul Narramore · May 20, 2005

This is a better image...

Tim Cullis · May 20, 2005

It might seem a bit obvious, but if you want to avoid buying a Swiss vignette for the motorways, don't enter Switzerland on a motorway route as then you would have no choice.

Tim

JohnnyBoxer · May 20, 2005

Paul Narramore said:
My wife and I rode the Pan down to Austria last summer and we rode up the pass I'd read so much about, Stelvio. So two up, a very heavy bike but no luggage as this was left at the hotel in Landeck, Austria.
The hairpins on Stelvio are all numbered, 41(?) being the first at the bottom, finishing with 1 at the top. I had to take each hairpin in 1st gear and at less than 10mph and the left handers were the easiest as you're going around the outside. The right handers were a worry. It's easy to think that as you approach them, just look over your shoulder and see what's coming, but all you see is the shear face of a stone wall. I tried taking them wider and wider to keep the speed up, until finally a cam face to face with an oncoming car. I had to stop and the missus jumped off as I paddled around the bend slipping the clutch like a novice. I was knackered by the time we reached the top but relieved we'd done it.
I guess that few other passes have such extreme hairpins but I can't be sure.
The following day we rented a Triumph Tiger which the hotel (motorcycle-friendly Hotel Enzian) had available and we literally sailed up another pass to see a glacier. The Triumph was much lighter than the Pan with excellent low down power.
Prior to going to Austria, I fitted new pads front and back, and bled the brakes.
I didn't get a Swizz vignette as we didn't use their autobahns and the Austrian vinette cost about £8 I think for three weeks.
The attachment is a pic of the Passo de Stelvio (Stilfserjoch) which peaks at 9046ft.

I did the Stelvio twice last year (July and Sept) and it was my first time up there (after 3 previous attempts in preceeding years - snow closed it)
The first time was in July and it was uo the Stelvio and down the Stifeljoch in torrential rain. It was much easier to go down the Stifeljoch and keeping a good speed and momentum was the key going down (even in rain).
Going up the Stifeljoch in sunshine in Sept was much harder than down in rain.

May see you in Andermatt in July (we're there on Fri 8th with a few other UK GS'ers - after Garmisch) and we're staying at Hotel Badus

Don't buy a Vignette, unless you intend to use M/ways.

Have fun and ride safe

BOB UK · May 21, 2005

Hi I will just miss you in the Alps I’m going over for 2 weeks at the end of June on my R100GS And like schiannini said just pack as light as you can

I see from your profile that your from sunny sunny Bournemouth like me if you feel like coming out on a ride out or to a local Bike club night the club I’m in club that meets at the Sandford’Pub on the A351, Sandford Road Wareham, on the 3rd Monday of the month and we have readouts ect see the link
http://www.dmec.cjb.net/

And here’s a page I made a few years ago about a trip to the Stella Alpina Rally
So you can see what the weather can be like in July in the Alps
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Strip/6501/stella.html

As for waterproofs I got a very good pair of Dutch army gortex over trousers from B.A.S.E. on the Charminster road in Bournemouth just right for over my leathers

Have a good Trip Bob

Bateman · May 21, 2005

Thanks for all the great advice. Lots to think about and get sorted in the next few weeks.

I might well pop along to the club Bob, especially as its just down the road (I'm in Broadstone).

Presumably I need to wind the rear suspension up to high? I normally ride with the seat in the high position - will it be easier if its in the low position for the passes?

Everytime I read this thread I think of some more questions. Hopefully I will get to a point soon when I can offer something back. Thanks again all.

andy malton · May 22, 2005

Andermatt

4 days in Andermatt will drive you crazy,if it's your first time I would say 2 days max,you can do main passes around Andermatt in a few hours once you have done those your days will be long to get out and seek new roads and get back to your base hotel.Take a pack of cards and travel scrabble cos it's hard to find life after 6pm ooohh and plenty of money to eat out cos it's seriously expensive,the tables in the resturants are not for eating at,they are there for when you reading the prices of the food so you don't fall over.

.It is worth going though,but 4 days nooooo way.Andy

sven · May 22, 2005

I organised the VFR Club trip to Austria last year and went on my heavily (over)loaded VFR800 with passenger, panniers, top box and tankbag - it must have been carrying nearly 250kg in total.

After acclimatising to the weight on the way down to Chur via the Rhine Gorge and Black Forest, I didn't have any real difficulties with the hairpin bends. Practice makes perfect - try some of the more open passes first (Fluela, Ofen, Grossglockener) with wider hairpins before riding the Stelvio/Stilfersjoch. Also, book into your hotel first if you can so you can dump the luggage - that'll make the bike feel comparitively lighter and easier to ride.

Ulimately though, it's more fun to ride without a pillion - I'm heading to the Alps in a few weeks riding solo and I'm looking forward to revisiting the passes without the burden of a pillion.

BOB UK · May 22, 2005

I’m going to put my neck on the line here and say that the way I ride hairpins is to trail the rear brake as I go into the corner this allows you to balance the bike in the same way as you would on a U Turn then as you get to the exit of the corner let the brake off and accelerate to the next bend I just know that every ones now going to say “ you don’t go round corners with the brake on” well what can I say it works for me on some of the real extreme bends that you get in the Alps and places like that and its how I ride in trials
Hay Just A thought maybe that’s why I’m crap at trials riding!!!!!!!
Why not load your bike up and have a ride out to Zig Zag Hill near Shaftsbury that’s as tight and as steep as any of the hills you will get in the Alps then you can practise going up and down there a few times
If you haven’t ridden with your bike fully loaded its well worth going out for a day with it loaded up then you have time to play with the preload and damping to see what works best for you
I look forward to seeing you at our club night
STAY SAFE BOB

Davey B · May 22, 2005

Couple of minor things that work for me on Wrynose and Hardknott here in the Lakes...
A tankbag is great for all the little stuff, camera, passports, money etc etc.
Planning is the key, especially if on tight narrow roads. A good look up or indeed down to see if a coach is coming your way, that way you can plan where YOU will need to stop, if he stops as well, all the better but have your plan clear in your mind. Lean a little forward...both of you, it'll ease the bikes tendency to lift the front wheel and prevents that...oh sh##.... feeling of....where will this all end up...
Have a great trip and travel very light. Undies and a credit card..seriously!

Banjaxed · May 22, 2005

With Bob on this...

Stelvio was a bas**rd (much more difficult than Furka, etc) - until I used the rear brake to settle the bike and then kept the power on! Worst thing of ALL was to enter the bend on a trailing throttle - no control at all.
Bateman, the left-handers really aren't a problem - low gear and keep the power on. Watch out for gravel on the edges of the road though - quite common. The right handers were a different matter. It's true - you glance over your right shoulder and see - grass and rock! Like most, I'd swing left for the right handers, but I soon learned to get left early so as to maximise the view and let those coming down have a look see. I really like the Dutch, but why they have to bring their bl**dy motorhomes up there beats me! Remember that the camber and grade is steepest on the right handers, so keep the power on!
And have a blast...

Rod · May 22, 2005

I've done two quite big tours over a lot of the passes in Switz/Italy and was struggling getting around steep down hill corners at anything above walking pase, untill I was told by a Ducati test rider (I was on the Centopassi Ducati event ) to trail the rear brake out of the corner with the power on, this controls the power/speed/gravity & helps to stop you running wide. As has been mentioned before, on all the corners take a BIG look up/down the hill before the corner and use all the road if poss. DO NOT attempt to stop in the middle of the corner if you are close in to the right side, usually you can not get your foot down at this place. You can also use the rear brake exiting uphill , to help pull you into the corner. Going up hill you are always more agresive, but it is easy to run wide on the exit and,on right handers, meet something coming the other way.
You will have a great time, I'm back there in July for 10 days, differant hotel each night, lots of passes, can't wait.

Bateman · May 23, 2005

Well, my passenger has had to pull out so it looks like I am going solo now, which should make the passes more fun, the fuel consumption a little less (or possibly more as I will now go that little bit quicker) and now given me the dilemma of whether to take panniers or just a small Oxford tailpack. Presumably I can take off the rear seat and put the tail pack in its place?

Bob - I am going to do Zig-Zag hill tonight so looking forward to that (assuming permission from the other half given the short notice I will give her...).

Now that I am going on my own, do you think I will have time to do the Stelvio pass. I arrive Andermatt on Friday morning and need to be heading back out towards Paris on Sunday evening?

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