Clutch release and pushrod assembly - Swing arm out to get at it?

Hello you lot,
long time no see. I've been doing those "Around to it" jobs that i've put off for the past 20 odd years - hence my absence for most of the past 6 months. (I'm sure youz have missed me )
Sorry to return and be straight into looking for help - but i'm worth it!

Typically my R850r decides to play silly buggers just as i have to return to work ... tomorrow / need the Bike to get there / and now have no time to work on it!

I think the operating arm / clutch release assembly that the cable attaches to at gearbox end has dried out of grease and maybe needs the bearing replaced.
Symptoms are a mild squeaking sometimes ... for now.
I've done this job on an Airhead many years ago and the symptoms seem the same - but can't remember what was involved.
Having read a bit of the Haynes book of lies and the BMW manual, it suggests that the wheel, bevel box (drive box or wotever you call it) and swing arm have to come out to gain access. As i'm no Gynaecologist i suspect that's correct.
Although Haynes suggest that "with some dexterity" it IS possible to access all but removing the pushrod.
Hmmm.

~ Can a lube job at least be done without the full surgery of removing the wheel / swingarm etc?
(like how the hell you're supposed to remove the screwed on clip over the rubber boot?!)
~ How hard is it to undo them big (heat to loosen) nuts/bolts on the 'box and the swingarm?
~ Is threadlock needed on reassembly?
~ What grease is used on the pushrod assembly?
~ How long would it take you to do the job?

Thoughts, advice and especially "short cuts" particularly appreciated - and pisstaking expected.

HELP!
~~~
Og.
p.s: Dr Farkoff already texted.

104 views so far
... and not even a pisstake? ~ Youz are slipping.

... but seriously - if anyone can advise, please do.

Thanks a lot.

take it all out , fix the problems you find , then do the problem you 1st wanted to do .....you know it makes sense.

Well that's me told then

Not sure what it is you are trying to lube?

If it's the gearbox input shaft, you can get at it by removing the starter and offering up a very small amount of lube that way. Don't overdo it! If you really need to pull the swinging arm and gearbox back, it's not a huge job - just remove the back wheel, support the gearbox / swinging arm and heat the pivots with a heat gun. Threadlock is advised for reassembly but doing without it, using the correct toque and painting register marks thereafter (for inspection later) is not unknown.

I'm sure Jay or Steptoe will be along shortly with better advice!

No short cuts.

Remove Swingarm.

Sounds like the very small bearing in the clutch thrust piston is on it's last legs.

Steptoe said:

No short cuts.

Remove Swingarm.

Sounds like the very small bearing in the clutch thrust piston is on it's last legs.

Click to expand...

Blunt and to the point.

Thanks Neil.
... i'll keep youz posted.

....and finally

SO many other things i've had to do before getting a chance to at least have the manners to reply to this thread.
I hate bad manners - so i apologise.

ANYhow, to the point ~ i got the job done.
Ta to folks that gave advice.

I'll try and keep this short. (Hah!)
Dr Farkoff advised and i'm glad he did, that the final drive bearings might fall apart as i removed the final drive.
He was 100% correct - i had a look and a feel around them and the movement was sorta 'universal' - i.e; they'd move in any direction i liked.
As i took them out to install "Nushings" in their place, (another good call from the Dr) they just fell apart totally.
I'd have been rightly fecked if i had relied on them being usable after the job. Good call Jay - Thank you!
Nushings = a damn good idea. Even if i had to make some form of 'pullers' to get them in place. Threaded bar, some sockets and washers + a soft mallet and the bench vice took care of that.
Swingarm off.
Well that was easy. Apart from busting two sockets in the process of freeing off the damn fixings! Yes i did apply heat to soften the threadlock.
So now into the dark hole that is at the back of the gearbox.
Awkward. lying on my back with my neck stretched up and my right hand trying to remove the clutch release bits. At least my diagnosis was correct - the little bearing/thrust/release thingy had collapsed. But you need the dexterity of a gynaecologist and gentle touch of a bomb disposal expert to get the old out and the new in.
The placing of the bearing is a little vague - it could've gone in further than a 'flush fit' with the edge of the casing - but i left it there figuring that use would push it further in if it needed it. (mind you i would've cursed as then clutch adjustment would be a bugger - but it seems fine). It's an "interference fit". I Very gently cleaned around where it goes in with extremely fine glasspaper.
Getting the rubber boot and jubilee clip back on was .... tiresome. (i used a lot of different words while doing it - most would make a trooper blush - but it got done. Eventually.)
Getting the swingarm back on was also ... entertaining. The idea of using a screwdriver to assist in getting the front rubber boot on to the gearbox as suggested in the Haynes Book of Lies was not going to happen. I mean how the f*ck you're supposed to be able to do that is beyond me altogether! But with lots of grease, swearing and pushing - it got on. So that's the main thing.
Now for the final drive.
Just got to get the male and female bits of the shaft and Universal Joint to line up......
My vocabulary of naughty words expanded considerably while doing this. It eventually worked.

..... i think that is about all to report. Bike back on the road, i'm happy.
This was my first ever attempt at working on a Bike this new (hey - to me this IS new technology! ) and i think it worked out alright.

I had a Robin for company for most of the job. What he was thinking i have no idea - but he was inches away from me for a good part of it.
One of the local foxes stuck his head under the back gate and watched me for a while - again, why? Pleasant distraction though.
When reassembling, I used blue threadlock (on the swingarm fixings only). Now yiz will tell me that was wrong threadlock.
I've to replace my socket.
That's all. Hope this waffle helps someone.
Cheers.

when my clutch arm snapped, I had read that it could be removed and replaced with the swingarm in place.

I tried for almost two hours, my hands are simply too large to get in there.

so rear shock, rear wheel, and swing arm all came off for me to access it, and it was actually quicker than the first try.

I replaced the cast aluminum OEM part with a nice welded stainless steel unit ( after market from a shop in the UK)

it was not cheap, but I do not have to worry about that happening again

mouthfulloflake said:

when my clutch arm snapped, I had read that it could be removed and replaced with the swingarm in place.

I tried for almost two hours, my hands are simply too large to get in there.

so rear shock, rear wheel, and swing arm all came off for me to access it, and it was actually quicker than the first try.

I replaced the cast aluminum OEM part with a nice welded stainless steel unit ( after market from a shop in the UK)

it was not cheap, but I do not have to worry about that happening again

Click to expand...

I thought about trying that as you can tell from my opening post.
The Haynes Book Of Lies states something along the lines of "with a certain amount of dexterity, all but the pushrod can be accessed in situ". . That's as we say here, is A Load Of Bollox!

Blue Loctite be fine if you only used a couple of drops....

You did use only a couple of drops Didn;t you ??? Now is a time for truth ??

You forgot about Witness Marks didn;t you Marc ?

If you used more than 2 it should still be okay but if you slathered the pins in loctite NOW would be a great time to heat the schite outta them and get them out and wipe it off ASAP

May One refer the Honorable Grand Tufty to the following LINKY

It "Should" be post 99

Good Work Marc

NOW................

Schedule some time at the Guzzi a wee bit at a time not flat out

DrFarkoff said:

Blue Loctite be fine if you only used a couple of drops....

You did use only a couple of drops Didn;t you ??? Now is a time for truth ??

~~~ um.... i used 'slightly' more. o.k then - considerably more. It's old / been in the shed for ... a while. o.k. - then a few years.
*sighs here* .... oh alright then! Damn this doing things properly business! I'll have to get a new socket first.
EDIT ~~~ i _THINK_ it's red not blue threadlock - that make any difference???

You forgot about Witness Marks didn;t you Marc ?

If you used more than 2 it should still be okay but if you slathered the pins in loctite NOW would be a great time to heat the schite outta them and get them out and wipe it off ASAP

May One refer the Honorable Grand Tufty to the following LINKY

It "Should" be post 99

Good Work Marc

NOW................

Schedule some time at the Guzzi a wee bit at a time not flat out

Click to expand...

.... as for witness marks / witless Marcs - i DID do dem and they aint shifted.
.... as for the Guzzi - i appreciate the nudge - i need that. I'm .... getting there.
Thanks. Again!

DrFarkoff said:

Blue Loctite be fine if you only used a couple of drops....

You did use only a couple of drops Didn;t you ??? Now is a time for truth ?

Click to expand...

Ogmios said:

~~~ um.... i used 'slightly' more. o.k then - considerably more. It's old / been in the shed for ... a while. o.k. - then a few years.
*sighs here* .... oh alright then! Damn this doing things properly business! I'll have to get a new socket first.
EDIT ~~~ i _THINK_ it's red not blue threadlock - that make any difference???

Click to expand...

Oh DEAR Red you say More than two drops

Hmmmm NEXT PATIENT PLEASE!!!!

Ogmios said:

.... as for witness marks / witless Marcs - i DID do dem and they aint shifted.
.... as for the Guzzi - i appreciate the nudge - i need that. I'm .... getting there.
Thanks. Again!

Click to expand...

No Charge!

um ...

DrFarkoff said:

Blue Loctite be fine if you only used a couple of drops....

You did use only a couple of drops Didn;t you ??? Now is a time for truth ??...

If you used more than 2 it should still be okay but if you slathered the pins in loctite NOW would be a great time to heat the schite outta them and get them out and wipe it off ASAP ...

Good Work Marc

NOW................

Schedule some time at the Guzzi a wee bit at a time not flat out

Click to expand...

Dear Dr,
er .... i must admit to "slathering" as you put it.
and would now be a good time to mention that i actually did the work about two weeks ago?
Is there any point now - given the time elapsed?

Guzzi;
thanks for the encouragement - it kicks me a good kick up the Jaxie to get it done.

Ogmios said:

Dear Dr,
er .... i must admit to "slathering" as you put it.
and would now be a good time to mention that i actually did the work about two weeks ago?
Is there any point now - given the time elapsed?

Guzzi;
thanks for the encouragement - it kicks me a good kick up the Jaxie to get it done.

Click to expand...

Blessed are the Bewildered for they know not what they do

Nor do they care ....

All I can say is

If you heat it now and clear it out? It will be a whole lot more flexible than it will be in a years time when its REALLY set

Like I have said you don;t really need it and if you are worried make "Witness marks" (Which If you have a Look They are more effective!)


Plus tend to make you not give it another wee tighten on the torque wrench to be sure to be sure

Your Call!

But If its red its not mean to come apart or let the bearing or seal go without a fight

DrFarkoff said:

Blessed are the Bewildered for they know not what they do

Nor do they care ....

All I can say is

If you heat it now and clear it out? It will be a whole lot more flexible than it will be in a years time when its REALLY set

Like I have said you don;t really need it and if you are worried make "Witness marks" (Which If you have a Look They are more effective!)


Plus tend to make you not give it another wee tighten on the torque wrench to be sure to be sure

Your Call!

But If its red its not mean to come apart or let the bearing or seal go without a fight

Click to expand...

Bewilderment is a double edged thingy.
At times it's a nuisance - the ignorance and accompanying stress of knowing one don't know what one needs to.
At times it's a boon - coz ignorance truly is bliss.
At times one must care - or suffer the quinsequonces of inaction!

Yep ~ evening meds have kicked in.


Weather permitting i'll take a look tomorrow and go from there.

Ogmios said:

Bewilderment is a double edged thingy.
At times it's a nuisance - the ignorance and accompanying stress of knowing one don't know what one needs to.
At times it's a boon - coz ignorance truly is bliss.

Click to expand...

AND then some fucker tells you what "might" happen if you don;t have a look and that sets off your OCD

Can;t think of anyone who would possibly do that

A couple of years ago, I fitted a replacement drive shaft on my 99 1150 (I didn't use loctite or a torque wrench apparently) and next morning we left for a long weekend to the West Coast near Namibia, after 1,000km on the second morning a photo shows the fixed pivot unwound by 5mm or so, didn't notice, about 600km further on we were just heading back, the alternator belt said howzit, while fixing that my mate says, "every time you push on the bike the back wheel moves" check the final drive, the fixed pivot is a good 8mm undone. luckily a Triumph uses a 12mm Allen key for one of its wheels, nipped it up it was fine all the way home.

Welshman said:

(I didn't use loctite or a torque wrench apparently)

Click to expand...

That would explain it

I will Happily tighten everything myself on the BM's except the rear wheel bolts they get torqued every single time

(And of course the Pivots and Headbolts )

I never understood why that front ball joint had to be so feckin tight though