Loomin hell

monkeyboy · Nov 8, 2009

I've had a random stutter.. well, more the bike than me.. for going on two years now - it's usually at constant throttle 30-50 but lately it's been getting worse and worse. I've changed the coil, the plugs, the HT leads, the fuel filter, the TPS, the hall sensor, the air sensor... nothing fixes it. I did have a mot failure this year on a brake light that turned out to be down to a melted circuit. I tried to chase the damage back into the loom but that proved impossible so this weekend I have been treating the bike to 50 quids worth of ebay replacement loomery in the hope of exorcising the beast.

I was a bit nervous, but once you've started there is no going back. I had the bike a bit like this a few weeks ago changing the gearbox and clutch :augie

Finally she's as naked as the day she was born

And the (hopeful) demon lays abandoned

Anyway - I need the bike to get back to work in the morning so I must get on

And after an initial no sparking/world championship swearing practice session resulting in the correct insertion of the coil feed :toungincheek

, it's springs in to life :JB

So if anybody sees a bloke standing by a broken down GSA on the way to work tomorrow - gimme a wave :thumb2

wildbeeste · Nov 8, 2009

monkeyboy said:
So if anybody sees a bloke standing by a broken down GSA on the way to work tomorrow - gimme a wave

OK I will pack some gaffer tape and some wd40 just in case :augie

sproggy · Nov 8, 2009

But the big question is......... did it solve the stuttering problem?

Steptoe · Nov 9, 2009

Has it worked :bounce1

L · Nov 9, 2009

and if anyone else wants to change their loom... I have a 2003 twin sparker up for grabs (which I bought off this site in error)...

monkeyboy · Nov 9, 2009

Steptoe said:
Has it worked

I don't know yet. It feels 'different' but as we all know, the weather, the temperature, even the direction of the wind can have an effect on those little 'are those a problem' vibrations.

After coming up to yours I put the bike back onto the standard map and that calmed it down a lot, but at the same time I changed the hall sensor, the TPS and wiggled the loom where I could to try and make it fail. It ran well for a few days but then started degrading again on the way up to Wales. I put it back on your map coming home and it definately shows the problem up a lot more so whatever it is must be something to do with the fueling decisions it makes I think.

Anyway - I'll give it a week and then swap on to your map again because the bike is a lot more lively in that mode.

Fingers crossed

Having said that - on the way home Friday night a lorry driver told me my back light was out but when I checked it had come back on. I had exactly this on my R1100S when the ignition cable from the lock was breaking down - the sidelight and rear light are enabled on pos 1 of the switch I think maybe? Anyway - I'll probably get another one of those cables to try if the problem returns as it may be a stuttering cutout from that.

monkeyboy · Nov 13, 2009

Well that didn't feckin fix it anyway

More stuttering and pausing in the wind and rain today.

Ordered another ignition lead, fuel reg and temp sensor - if that doesn't feckin work the only other things I can think of that might cause a cut out are the sidestand switch and the motronic. I'll have changed absolutely everything else I can think of

Mutley · Nov 13, 2009

All the same, braver man than me :bow

markj · Nov 13, 2009

have you had your injectors cleaned or changed? Definately worth a try.

monkeyboy · Nov 13, 2009

markj said:
have you had your injectors cleaned or changed? Definately worth a try.

Cheers - I swapped them with a spare set about a month ago - fitted new o rings too - no difference

Stewart H · Nov 13, 2009

Bugger

on the bright side you now have a spare loom. I am in the fault finding hell myself at the moment , its a bugger isnt it.
Stewart

monkeyboy · Nov 13, 2009

Stewart H said:
Bugger on the bright side you now have a spare loom. I am in the fault finding hell myself at the moment , its a bugger isnt it.
Stewart

You are not wrong Stuart! The loom I took out did have a partial melt down - the brake like circuit went tits up instead of blowing the fuse so it needed replacing for peace of mind if nothing else.

I've got spares of just about everything now if you need some 'diagnostic playthings' to help. Whats your problem?

sproggy · Nov 19, 2009

Of all the things you've changed, have you tried substituting a different ECU? I've tried changing the chip in mine (I have the same problems that you're experiencing) without solving anything and I've changed nearly as many bits as you but no-one I've heard of with this problem has tried the switching ECU to my knowledge.

I just had thoughts of a dry joint causing a fully functioning sensor to give a signal that gets corrupted by a bad connection within the ECU itself......

monkeyboy · Nov 19, 2009

sproggy said:
Of all the things you've changed, have you tried substituting a different ECU? I've tried changing the chip in mine (I have the same problems that you're experiencing) without solving anything and I've changed nearly as many bits as you but no-one I've heard of with this problem has tried the switching ECU to my knowledge.

I just had thoughts of a dry joint causing a fully functioning sensor to give a signal that gets corrupted by a bad connection within the ECU itself......

Hi Sproggy. I've now changed the plugs/ht leads/coil/injectors/lamda/tps/halls sensor/petrol filter/complete loom and this week I have changed the ignition switch wire and the fuel pressure regulator. I've upgraded it to the 3.5bar version from the K1200RS to see if that makes a difference. Initially it ran like a dog cos I forgot to check the throttle balance which always seems to get slightly upset when you lever up the frame (to replace the fuel reg), and then I remembered that the replacement loom fuse box is still set on the original map. So I just snuggly reseated the throttle cables and put it on to the Remus/Y Piece map. It still isn't absolutely perfect but feck me it shifts. I'm coming to the conclusion that it's just not going to run properly everwhere and I just have to get it best I can for the majority of the riding I do which is higher speed. It seems whenever I do anything it is fine for a while then starts to degrade again

I do have an old sad R1100S in the garage and I'm (almost) sure that the motronic is the same as mine so yes, if it degrades too much (or if I can be bothered!) I'll swap that and see if it makes a difference. TBH, I can't think of much else I can try that might have an effect - maybe the temp sensor, I have a spare but no flare spanner to change it - i might just remove the oil line and then I can get at it - and the motronic. What else is there? I'm listening if anyone has any more ideas

Colban · Nov 19, 2009

I've got an 1100GS Motronic in my garage at the moment.
It came from a supposedly working bike,but i haven't tested it.
PM me if you would like to try it out.

elevensies · Nov 19, 2009

well if it hasnt caused it, at least you have done the dog work and replaced the wires that sounds like it needed anyway.

very brave, especially if your doing it before you ride to work

strange one really, if its been to steptoes, did he have any ideas?

monkeyboy · Nov 19, 2009

elevensies said:
well if it hasnt caused it, at least you have done the dog work and replaced the wires that sounds like it needed anyway.

very brave, especially if your doing it before you ride to work

strange one really, if its been to steptoes, did he have any ideas?

I did take it to Steptoes and on that day it was running very very badly, constantly dipping and nearly cutting out on tickover, and even holding the throttle at 2500 sounded like an intermittent misfire. It was rough as you like all the way through. He plugged in the computer and there was no faults reported and he fine tuned the throttle balance. He said he'd have to work through it like I have and it would be a process of elimination. As he always says, and he's right, if you feck about with them too much they run like dogs, but I only ever touch anything when it goes wrong. I don't play around with it. I had just changed the gearbox when I saw him and I'd obviously disturbed whatever is/was wrong. I came straight home from his and changed the TPS and Halls and changed to the standard map and that calmed it down for a while but didn't fix it. At least I'm now confident that it doesn't feel like it's going to stop, and at least it's driveable at the moment even if it's not perfect. With the 3.5bar fuel reg and the remus map it goes like a train when you open it up and it cruises better than it's done for ages at high speed so I think I might settle for that and live with the lower speed imperfections

My old R1100S ran sweet as a nut all her life and never gave problems like this - the forums didn't seem full of rough running problems like this one is - it seems really weird as they're basically the same. I guess each bike has it's foibles though.

sproggy · Nov 19, 2009

monkeyboy said:
My old R1100S ran sweet as a nut all her life and never gave problems like this - the forums didn't seem full of rough running problems like this one is - it seems really weird as they're basically the same. I guess each bike has it's foibles though.

I've had an R1100RS, another 1150GS and an 1100S and they've all run perfectly when adjusted properly. As did a friend's 1150GS that I serviced and set up for him. All responded well to the usual rocker end float/valve clearances/TPS adjust/throttle balance routine.

This one I have now just won't run right with the same treatment, and although there are a few others behaving like it I know it's by no means a common problem.

Would a GS911 or similar diagnostic check on the sensors necessarily detect a problem with the ECU itself?

monkeyboy · Nov 19, 2009

sproggy said:
I've had an R1100RS, another 1150GS and an 1100S and they've all run perfectly when adjusted properly. As did a friend's 1150GS that I serviced and set up for him. All responded well to the usual rocker end float/valve clearances/TPS adjust/throttle balance routine.

This one I have now just won't run right with the same treatment, and although there are a few others behaving like it I know it's by no means a common problem.

Would a GS911 or similar diagnostic check on the sensors necessarily detect a problem with the ECU itself?

A GS911? What's that exactly? I was thinking about a rolling road check the other day - don't know of any round here in Southampton though

sproggy · Nov 20, 2009

monkeyboy said:
A GS911? What's that exactly?

It's a diagnostic tool that plugs into the diagnostic socket and reads off error codes - offers a lot more functionality if you have a 1200 than for earlier bikes as far as I can see (it can reset idle speed, for example), but I've never used one. Details here:

http://www.gs911usa.com/
(it's a US website but I believe they're available over here from somewhere)

and you'll find loads of mentions of them in the forum. They come up for sale occasionally. I expect Steptoe's got one and used it on your bike.

monkeyboy said:
I was thinking about a rolling road check the other day - don't know of any round here in Southampton though

I know it's not really close but I've used PDQ near Maidenhead, which isn't a million miles away from Southampton. They did a custom map for the PC111 on my R1100S and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

http://www.pdq1.co.uk/dyno_06.htm

I've thought about putting mine on a dyno too - it might show up whether it's running lean or rich when it starts misfiring around 3k rpm.

Loomin hell

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