a couple of photos of what you are talking about might help us understand.
Just saying
eye opening - tyres on GSA - just WOW !
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Just saying
Wasn't taking a pop at you
But, I'm one of those who isn't clear on what you're saying. Is it not possible that the 'flex' your describing is simply the arc the top of the stanchions are scribing as the suspension moves up and down?
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I'll get one - the right bike is at my house.... its not that pretty - its was proof of concept - but it worked so I left it (maybe 9 years now) - had asked a USA clip on lot to make it a std bit and got a response - ideally need the clamps to split so dont have to pull the bike apart - and it has to reach around the ring antenna, not much room behind it - mine should flex too much but somehow doesn't, and the clamps never snapped either which I thought they would
I'm still not with you. The only purpose of the stanchions is to connect the handlebars to the fork lowers. Based on how they're connected (spherical bearings) on top of long tubes (stanchions) it's inevitable there will be some 'flex' felt by the rider, maybe.
If you look at the BMW duo-lever (think that's what they called it?) for example, there are no stanchions, instead there is a series of linkages from handlebars to the 'forks'.
One of the early 'complaints' and maybe it's still out there, is that the telelever removed feel for the rider. Maybe this is down to the flex you keep talking about. Personally I've never felt it. Maybe I'm not riding it hard enough
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If you look at the BMW duo-lever (think that's what they called it?) for example, there are no stanchions, instead there is a series of linkages from handlebars to the 'forks'.
One of the early 'complaints' and maybe it's still out there, is that the telelever removed feel for the rider. Maybe this is down to the flex you keep talking about. Personally I've never felt it. Maybe I'm not riding it hard enough
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on conventional forks
three major and one minor clamping points across the sliders and the stanchions to create some strength and rigidity
1) front wheel spindle (on normal way up forks) clamps the bottom together locking one end of the "front forks together"
2) front mudguard stay - if you remember in the 80's they realised plastic guards had ruined the once reasonable clamp at the top of the sliders (minor bit)
3) bottom yoke clamped the stanchion mid way up the weak part
4) top yoke created the major structural element of the stanchion pipe cleaners in to something capable of having some rigidity
so along the length of your forks each element has two points of strength, all a long distance apart making both halves of a fork leg a structural pair, that has some chance to telescope without stiction or slop, and this leg is then secured robustly to its partner on the other fork leg
on telelever its all gone walkabout
a) the sliders have the large wheel spindle and the bottom yoke, so this already strong part is really strong
b) yes, some brake force where the stanchion used to try to cope, has been handed to the wishbone, and operates through the strong slider parts
c) but the pipe cleaner stanchions are now left with NOTHING whatsoever to give any strength at all - meaning the riders steering force has no right to ever reach the wheel spindle - its just luck moving the bars makes any difference to where the front wheel goes
my upper stanchion clamp brings slight elements of the top yoke back to the party - with incredible effect - as we want / need suspension movement I can do anything else to make the pair of triple clamps we need
FYI, I suspect the term triple clamp really refers to clamping points 1, 3 and 4 above (of the it was just three clamping bolts, two bottom yoke and one in the top, but the three structural elements makes much more sense to me)
just check where we are on modern bikes in comparison - and then look when you weaken the already compromised set up of the telelever idea- on the LC GS', by fitting stanchions made of economy grade tin foil, they fall to bits and people die
three major and one minor clamping points across the sliders and the stanchions to create some strength and rigidity
1) front wheel spindle (on normal way up forks) clamps the bottom together locking one end of the "front forks together"
2) front mudguard stay - if you remember in the 80's they realised plastic guards had ruined the once reasonable clamp at the top of the sliders (minor bit)
3) bottom yoke clamped the stanchion mid way up the weak part
4) top yoke created the major structural element of the stanchion pipe cleaners in to something capable of having some rigidity
so along the length of your forks each element has two points of strength, all a long distance apart making both halves of a fork leg a structural pair, that has some chance to telescope without stiction or slop, and this leg is then secured robustly to its partner on the other fork leg
on telelever its all gone walkabout
a) the sliders have the large wheel spindle and the bottom yoke, so this already strong part is really strong
b) yes, some brake force where the stanchion used to try to cope, has been handed to the wishbone, and operates through the strong slider parts
c) but the pipe cleaner stanchions are now left with NOTHING whatsoever to give any strength at all - meaning the riders steering force has no right to ever reach the wheel spindle - its just luck moving the bars makes any difference to where the front wheel goes
my upper stanchion clamp brings slight elements of the top yoke back to the party - with incredible effect - as we want / need suspension movement I can do anything else to make the pair of triple clamps we need
FYI, I suspect the term triple clamp really refers to clamping points 1, 3 and 4 above (of the it was just three clamping bolts, two bottom yoke and one in the top, but the three structural elements makes much more sense to me)
just check where we are on modern bikes in comparison - and then look when you weaken the already compromised set up of the telelever idea- on the LC GS', by fitting stanchions made of economy grade tin foil, they fall to bits and people die
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Well, I've done 50k miles on the 1200 and I did about 35k miles on the 1150... All with no girl out steering issues (bars failed ball joint on the first 1150). So what's not working? I also was lead to believe the 1150 and I'm sure the 1200 (pre LC) did they Paris-Dakar.
Have you got any videos of your rides? But if we discover you've got a BMI of 80, all bets are off
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Have you got any videos of your rides? But if we discover you've got a BMI of 80, all bets are off
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130.000+ on mine now, and I still find mine the most planted front end on any bike I've ever owned.Well, I've done 50k miles on the 1200 and I did about 35k miles on the 1150... All with no girl out steering issues (bars failed ball joint on the first 1150). So what's not working? I also was lead to believe the 1150 and I'm sure the 1200 (pre LC) did they Paris-Dakar.
Have you got any videos of your rides? But if we discover you've got a BMI of 80, all bets are off
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Ball joint is original.
Forks have ever been touched Internally.
Original front wheel bearings.
I really can't follow his train of thought on this.
"Reality - dangerous lethal death-trap - nearly fell off as the front washed out at walking pace driving off the forecourt - and it did this every tiny corner for the entire road test - hideous wayward behaviour only just able to keep the bike upright at 15% of bikes capability"
Are you sure its not in your head ? I was out last week on two 50 year old classic bikes riding at a decent pace nothing like the above description, one had a fairly worn back tyre (video coming out soon)
I have also done trackdays (Mid Group) on an GS with BT-23s without any problems even had the strange feeling of knee down
Fork Flex ????
Are you sure its not in your head ? I was out last week on two 50 year old classic bikes riding at a decent pace nothing like the above description, one had a fairly worn back tyre (video coming out soon)
I have also done trackdays (Mid Group) on an GS with BT-23s without any problems even had the strange feeling of knee down
Fork Flex ????
jefformston
Registered user
I’m with you on that, 110,000 on an 1150, 50,000 on a 1200. Always found the front end to be well planted and track perfectly on every types and speed of bend.
Also according to the OP I’ve been extremely lucky, having the input from the bars steering the bike through every corner every time. Maybe I should start buying lottery tickets!
OP must be the new Bendy Toy, for those that remember him. Another one who loved to tell all about how BMW have got everything wrong.
Botus, remind us about how you can feel your bike 'holdlng back' if you use the wrong grade of oil
Botus, remind us about how you can feel your bike 'holdlng back' if you use the wrong grade of oil
go fit a brace and come back and apologise...
and if you can't feel the difference in power out between a high quality brand fully synthetic 10 40 and a naff brand 20 50 in a R1200 boxer engine, you shouldn't be allowed on a bike
it would help many to grow up and make you bikes safer instead of posting puerile garbage
and if you can't feel the difference in power out between a high quality brand fully synthetic 10 40 and a naff brand 20 50 in a R1200 boxer engine, you shouldn't be allowed on a bike
it would help many to grow up and make you bikes safer instead of posting puerile garbage
Just go ride your bike fella, too much overthinking 
Oh the irony in that post alone is quite astounding.
How many hundreds of thousands of GS/gsa's have been sold?
And so far you're the only one I've heard about who had all the problems that you come up with on a monthly basis.
Are you some king of riding god to be able to judge a tyre from cold within two turns of moving off? I suspect that I know the answer to my own question.
It’s all BS
It certainly is.
This is textbook...
So you've been posting (for a long time) issues that mostly only affects you.
Not dismissing completely the arguments, but people made comments on what could have been actually happening, asked more details about your experience (not provided) questioned the line of your analysis.
All of this, to be fair, fairly respectful (especially per forum standards
) of what you've written so far.
And you're response is to tell people to stop posting puerile garbage?
For the record...
So you've been posting (for a long time) issues that mostly only affects you.
Not dismissing completely the arguments, but people made comments on what could have been actually happening, asked more details about your experience (not provided) questioned the line of your analysis.
All of this, to be fair, fairly respectful (especially per forum standards
) of what you've written so far.And you're response is to tell people to stop posting puerile garbage?
For the record...
Yes, it is noticeable in some cases. Same with gearbox. The noticeable difference, however, is generally risible, thus no one actually cares about it.
That sounds like a very plausible double blind trial to do at a meeting of bikes.
I'd put money on the fact that most riders, on a strange bike would not be able to tell which has each type of oil.
So radio silence for a while - been playing musical chairs with tyres....
Do not buy a Dunlop Road Smart 4 Front Tyre for a GS, (whilst clear its meant for the LC bikes), Bridgestone list the 120 / 70 size for all GS variants and a some areas on the Dunlop site doesn't add clarity - either way on the Air-cooled bikes this RS4 tyre is not a good idea - not Bridgestone horrible - but not safe, not nice, not a good idea.
Started out with 2.2 bar and it was very similar to the Bridgestone's tucked in and washed out, wanted to run wide, didn't want to turn, causes the fork flex syndrome if you try to ride fast. Moved to 2.6 bar and got wins in some areas and bigger losses in others. Was going to take it off after 10 miles as unsuitable. Decided to try 2.8 bar and in some areas it starts to behave like a tyre (at high speed behaves closer to a Road Smart 3), but in others its seriously unpleasant. Then as about to take it off thought well the Bridgestone started to get sensible with low pressure, what happens on this tyre - and - a transformation at 1.9 bar - if you ride slow you might be perfectly happy, and I started to trust it would work riding slowly, but its missing 40% of the bikes capability.
Then got a total shock that was hard to comprehend - Having begun to work how to ride slow, to get around the failings of the RS4 and the telelever issues - I got back on the bike with the Bridgestones and it was so bad and utterly unsafe I questioned why I thought the Dunlop RS4 was ever a problem !!! I don't mind who I offend - if you think the Bridgestone A41s on a GS are OK - you should park the bike and tear up your driving license you have no right to get on a bike and risk everyone else's safety. Both the BT23 and the A41 tyres are a disgusting, dangerous mess that shouldn't be allowed on public roads
Spoke with Dunlop to express concern re the RS4 and they recco the Dunlop Trailmax Meridians - looking at photos it looks like a very sporty tyre for something that is meant as dual use. So I now have these tyres on the GSA and they work very well. They are not even close to the utter mess you get from Bridgestone - These Dunlop's feel like real tyres and work very well with GS.
www.dunlop.eu
before I got these Dunlop Meridian's on the bike, I played musical chairs with the other one and tried the Road Smart 3 in 120 / 70 / 19 size on the GSA, and all was good. I didn't have the TPMS working so had gone with the pressures it had (which I now find was 2.4 bar - a bit lower than I usually run)
So results of back to back rides (with slightly sub-optimal pressures) on the tyre I recco and the tyres Dunlop recco.
Dunlop RS3 120 / 70 / 19 @2.4 bar
ESA Single rider - Comfort : worked well, felt normal, bike became a GS rather than a hopeless disaster
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Sport mode : Ride it like you stole it - felt like my other GS - massively faster. Safe composed and sensible - able to take entire sections of road plus 30mph above risking life and limb trying to ride with those deadly Bridgestone's. First time in a month actually enjoyed any ride since buying this GSA - Ride it like you stole it and smile as you get faster and faster !!!
Dunlop Trailmax Meridian 110 / 80 / 19 @2.6 bar
ESA Single rider - Comfort : worked well, felt normal, bike became a GS rather than a disaster, flexi fork syndrome not there and steering weight felt like it was by grown ups
ESA Single rider - Normal : not quite as happy, felt OK, but slightly odd at times (same issue on the RS3 - might play with pressures but on comfort and sport it goes away)
ESA Single rider - Sport : worked well, didn't feel sporty or stiff just slightly happier
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Comfort : OK feels normal, probably better than anyone here needs
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Normal : Same issue, not sure what BMW did but "normal" isn't - comfort and sport work - this mode is slightly nastier and inconsistent everywhere
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Sport : Feels good - Ride it like you stole it - this is a much better set up for the GSA - felt a lot like my other GS on RS3's - massively more capable. safe composed, sensible and fun. Pressing on at high speed I think its slightly less able than the RS3, the steering weights up and you have to take a more gentle approach to throwing it around - at 80mph plus, I felt steering was much heavier than the RS3s thus starts you heading towards the flexi fork situation - unless you slow down and change to a slower riding style. Will have a play with pressures on both and see where I end up - Pleasantly surprised these things are much better than I expected. - I could live with these.
Do not buy a Dunlop Road Smart 4 Front Tyre for a GS, (whilst clear its meant for the LC bikes), Bridgestone list the 120 / 70 size for all GS variants and a some areas on the Dunlop site doesn't add clarity - either way on the Air-cooled bikes this RS4 tyre is not a good idea - not Bridgestone horrible - but not safe, not nice, not a good idea.
Started out with 2.2 bar and it was very similar to the Bridgestone's tucked in and washed out, wanted to run wide, didn't want to turn, causes the fork flex syndrome if you try to ride fast. Moved to 2.6 bar and got wins in some areas and bigger losses in others. Was going to take it off after 10 miles as unsuitable. Decided to try 2.8 bar and in some areas it starts to behave like a tyre (at high speed behaves closer to a Road Smart 3), but in others its seriously unpleasant. Then as about to take it off thought well the Bridgestone started to get sensible with low pressure, what happens on this tyre - and - a transformation at 1.9 bar - if you ride slow you might be perfectly happy, and I started to trust it would work riding slowly, but its missing 40% of the bikes capability.
Then got a total shock that was hard to comprehend - Having begun to work how to ride slow, to get around the failings of the RS4 and the telelever issues - I got back on the bike with the Bridgestones and it was so bad and utterly unsafe I questioned why I thought the Dunlop RS4 was ever a problem !!! I don't mind who I offend - if you think the Bridgestone A41s on a GS are OK - you should park the bike and tear up your driving license you have no right to get on a bike and risk everyone else's safety. Both the BT23 and the A41 tyres are a disgusting, dangerous mess that shouldn't be allowed on public roads
Spoke with Dunlop to express concern re the RS4 and they recco the Dunlop Trailmax Meridians - looking at photos it looks like a very sporty tyre for something that is meant as dual use. So I now have these tyres on the GSA and they work very well. They are not even close to the utter mess you get from Bridgestone - These Dunlop's feel like real tyres and work very well with GS.
Dunlop Trailmax Meridian | Adventure & Trail Motorcycle Tyres
For riders looking for adventure, Dunlop's Trailmax Meridian takes them further. It’s packed with enhanced benefits giving greater mileage, increased performance and more freedom on the road and trail. Find out more.
www.dunlop.eu
before I got these Dunlop Meridian's on the bike, I played musical chairs with the other one and tried the Road Smart 3 in 120 / 70 / 19 size on the GSA, and all was good. I didn't have the TPMS working so had gone with the pressures it had (which I now find was 2.4 bar - a bit lower than I usually run)
So results of back to back rides (with slightly sub-optimal pressures) on the tyre I recco and the tyres Dunlop recco.
Dunlop RS3 120 / 70 / 19 @2.4 bar
ESA Single rider - Comfort : worked well, felt normal, bike became a GS rather than a hopeless disaster
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Sport mode : Ride it like you stole it - felt like my other GS - massively faster. Safe composed and sensible - able to take entire sections of road plus 30mph above risking life and limb trying to ride with those deadly Bridgestone's. First time in a month actually enjoyed any ride since buying this GSA - Ride it like you stole it and smile as you get faster and faster !!!
Dunlop Trailmax Meridian 110 / 80 / 19 @2.6 bar
ESA Single rider - Comfort : worked well, felt normal, bike became a GS rather than a disaster, flexi fork syndrome not there and steering weight felt like it was by grown ups
ESA Single rider - Normal : not quite as happy, felt OK, but slightly odd at times (same issue on the RS3 - might play with pressures but on comfort and sport it goes away)
ESA Single rider - Sport : worked well, didn't feel sporty or stiff just slightly happier
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Comfort : OK feels normal, probably better than anyone here needs
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Normal : Same issue, not sure what BMW did but "normal" isn't - comfort and sport work - this mode is slightly nastier and inconsistent everywhere
EAS Single rider + Luggage - Sport : Feels good - Ride it like you stole it - this is a much better set up for the GSA - felt a lot like my other GS on RS3's - massively more capable. safe composed, sensible and fun. Pressing on at high speed I think its slightly less able than the RS3, the steering weights up and you have to take a more gentle approach to throwing it around - at 80mph plus, I felt steering was much heavier than the RS3s thus starts you heading towards the flexi fork situation - unless you slow down and change to a slower riding style. Will have a play with pressures on both and see where I end up - Pleasantly surprised these things are much better than I expected. - I could live with these.
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