► Chains, oilers, sprockets

[Thunder]

My thoughts entirely, thats why I ordered one....oh oh will I be able to cope with 5mins lubing the chain each week!

With the chain one of myf first additions will be a Pro-Oiler.

Had one on my Aprilia and Thunderace and it kept the chain in perfect condition with no need to lube at all.

 

[unhinged]

Seen this? http://www.visordown.com/articles/view/scottoiler_launch_bmw_f800gs_and_f650gs_chain_kits/4480.html

SCOTTOILER is soon to launch a new chain oiling kit designed specifically for the BMW F800GS and F650GS models.

The kit has been specifically designed to meet the requirements of the new models with easy installation, access and adjustment being the key considerations in its development. Not forgetting the aesthetics of the product the Scottoiler has taken on a new image specifically designed to fit perfectly with the colour options available on both ranges of bike.

As part of a new initiative, the new BMW specific Scottoiler kit will only be available direct from the BMW dealer network. It is set to retail at £74.95 with fitting as an optional extra.

 

[jarax]

does anyone know chain options for F800 GS? I called to Czech dealer of DiD chains, and he said that in their catalogue there is not chain and wheels set for this bike available.

___________________________________

Right values for BMW F800GS chain are:

Type: 525
Pieces: 116
Front wheel: 16
Rear wheel: 42

I bought DiD 525ZVM2 chain (X-ring, enhanced strenght) , spoke wheels not available yet, so I will use original bmw.

 

[Elvie]

Check you chains - replacement needed @ 2500miles

Have done 2,500 miles on my 650 and am now awaiting new chain and sprockets to be fitted under warranty. The dealer was not at all surprised & in fact one of the guys there said "they're all like this"

Must admit to being a bit lax on checking chain tension. I've never had any problems with previous bikes and my Blade is still on its original chain after 23,000 miles. I had a new tyre fitted yesterday as we're off on a long trip around Central Europe in 10 days and I didn't want to have to bother with tyres while out there. The originals were just starting to square off. Had the tyre fitted by Mike ( ex Rydale now independent) in Cardiff and he noticed the chain had a very tight spot& needed replacing. Am now concerned as another 2500 miles will put me in Slovakia or Poland. How do I manage there?

He also pointed out that it was a continuous chain without splittable links,suitable for the road but not off roading as it's a big job to change and not reparable at the roadside. Must admit to being a complete ignoramus about chains so hope this makes sense. Seems a bit of a boo boo on BMW's part & important foranyone planning an RTW trip on one.Don't knowif the 800 is the same

 

[Howard Millichap]

Two things you should do with chains :-
1) fit a Scottoiler or similar.
2) make sure it's a good quality chain like a DID X-ring.

Continuous chains are repairable at the roadside but you'll need a chain splitter/riveter and a new soft, rivet link. Or, to get you out of the shit, carry a short length of chain (the same type as fitted to the bike, obviously) and two spring clip links so that you can rejoin a broken chain. In reality, you've really got to be unlucky to need any of this. The original X-ring on my Tiger did 33K and I only replaced that for peace of mind.
It's also OK to fit a new chain by using a soft, rivet link. That is, you don't have to fit a new continuous chain which involves taking the swingarm out.
It's also much cheaper then a new shaft.

Jus to check: BMW F800 chain is 116 pieces, 520 type, front wheel 16, rear wheel 42 is that right?

Jarax

If you can I'd be fitting a 530 chain. It's a bit wider and will, therefore, last longer because the loading is spread over a bigger area in the pivot pins. I wouldn't consider using a 520 on anything with more than 50bhp. Cost cutting by BMW? Surely not!

 

[Micky]

The chains fitted to the 650/800's are cheap and nasty CZ made in Checkoslovakia! The country hasn't existed for a few years

The replacement chains for the single cylinder 650's used to be DID but then the CZ chains replaced them. They're crap

Having said that my 800GS has done 4,000 miles and the CZ chain hasn't even been adjusted yet, but I know that when it starts wanting adjustment it'll go very quickly

Having said that, the chains fitted to the 650/800's are still lasting longer than the drive shaft, drive shaft bearings, oils seals and ring antenna's of the 1200's



www.adventure.gs

 

[Gipsy]

A touring scottoiler here might be a sound investment. There are other chain lube systems around btw

Scottoiler ordered when bike was ordered. Not available at launch. Scottoiler have had to develop a special unit for the F650/F800 and it was only available as of a few days ago! It was fitted today (having arrived in the dealership only yesterday) when the need for a new chain was confirmed. Have them on all other bikes and wouldn't be without one.

PS I'm Elvie's worst half.

Elvie, how have you been with the lubing of the chain, regular & often or Seldom / (god forbid) never...?

There's a scottoiler available specifically for the 800 & 650 GS's.. http://www.scottoiler.com/bmw-kit.asp

I would refer my learned friend to my previous post. And yes the chain has been lubed regularly. Don't think the dealer would be so quick to replace chain and sprockets under warranty if lack of lube was an issue.

Continuous chains are repairable at the roadside but you'll need a chain splitter/riveter and a new soft, rivet link.

Not the sort of kit most peeps carry when touring on road in Europe, on a brand new bike, with less than 2,500 miles on the clock. Also don't think fitting a non OE chain and sprockets at this early stage should be necessary. If it's not fit for purpose then BMW should sort it.

 

[Micky]

Had my new chain and sprockets fitted today, under warranty. Took the dealer about three & half hours to do. When I asked why so long I was told it was a much bigger job than they had expected, having to take the whole back end off the bike. Although it's the first that they have changed it's strange they didn't realise last week when they checked the chain and fitted the Scottoiler

Can't see why they have to take the whole back end out, strewth, swing arm out and bobs yer uncle



Micky

 

[Tim Cullis]

Fitting a Scottoiler
Alarm bells should have sounded when the dealer said, "Let us know how you get on, we've not fitted one yet."

The installation instructions instally appear comprehensive (you can view them online at http://www.scottoiler.com/bmw-kit.asp), but a serious omission is a parts list so you can identify just what is meant when the instructions say, "press the black vacuum tubing into the 8mm damper elbow provided." There's a short bit of black tubing in the same shrink pack as what I believe to be the damper elbow, so I used that.

I've now come to the conclusion that was wrong. There's a long stretch of black tubing wrapped up with the transparent tubing that I think goes to the chain, so I'm about to try using that.

Although I've never fitted a Scottoiler before I think I'm right in saying the vacuum tube has to be connected to the oil reservoir. Guess what, that's missed out of the instructions!

Although at one stage the instructions say to route the oil delivery tube (in the chain area) to the oil reservoir, it doesn't actually say how and where to connect it.

It also talk about securing the oil reservoir breather assembly pointing downwards but doesn't say how to do this. There are three cable ties included with the parts, is this a clue?

Also there's a washer missing which is needed when the regulator rectifier is reattached. The diagrams show the oil reservoir with its metering valve neatly installed on the frame. I'm having some real problems getting it in place so that you can still access the valve.

And whilst I'm having a moan, the T30 torx wrench that you need to install the kit isn't part of the F650/800 toolset.

For a supposed custom produced bit of kit I am not at all impressed. It's just as well I'm not paying BMW workshop rates whilst a mechanic tries to sort this out!

Tim

There should be a "general arrangement" in the box. If not, go onto that link above - technical support - fitting guides - instruction booklet.

OK, so there's two documents effectively missing, a 'general arrangements' to explain the concept behind the unit, and a parts list/diagram.

The final straw on the instruction sheet was where is says to adjust the oil flow but doesn't mention that the engine (presumably?) must be running at the time.

Tim

You're right about the engine running, as that's what provides the vacuum to set it going. And that's usual for Scottoilers

 

[(RIP) petcul]

Took one look at it and rode off to my local friendly mechanic. It took two of them over an hour to fit it. Even then they had routed one tube too near the exhaust so that it later holed so they had to redo it again.

You have my sympathy.

 

[rory@scottoiler]

OK, so there's two documents effectively missing, a 'general arrangements' to explain the concept behind the unit, and a parts list/diagram.

The final straw on the instruction sheet was where is says to adjust the oil flow but doesn't mention that the engine (presumably?) must be running at the time.

Tim

Hi Tim et all,

I signed up yesterday hoping to find some feedback regarding the new Scottoiler BMW kit / instructions.

Sorry to hear about the problems you've encountered, but this feedback is most useful and will be taken into account, we are obviously too close to our product and it's often difficult to take a step back and determine exactly what people need to know, particularly if they are new to it.

Some of the issues you point out seem blindingly obvious in retrospect, we propose to add a general assembly and parts list on the reverse side of the instructions document and possibly some photographs showing an actual installation.

If anyone else has feedback or questions or queries regarding the kit please don't hesitate to contact [email protected] this is our first model specific kit so bear with us

Cheers, Rory

Tim

Hi Rory

I was going to contact Scottoiler rather than just moan on the forum and you've saved me the trouble.

Step 4 in the vacuum connection instructions appears to show a short length of black tubing which is why I initially installed the short black tube. After completing the installation I still haven't used this short tube, am I right in thinking it is a spare 'nib' for the delivery of oil to the rear sprocket?

The washer that was missing was the one shown in step 2 of the reservoir installation.

I had great problems positioning the reservoir. As you can see from the photo there's a lot more going on in that area than the installation diagram suggests and the ridged black tubing gets in the way. In the end I loosened off the reservoir from the mount and positioned the reservoir much further down, then tightened the mount once it was installed. To tighten the mount you need a T30 right angle tool which isn't supplied with the bike.

Step 2 of the dispenser assembly has a hint saying "the delivery tubing can be routed through and secured to the rear brake circuit." I didn't understand this at all.

In step 5 of the dispenser assembly it's not clear whether the nib should be touching the rear sprocket.

The hint "always remove filler plug and breather before filling" the RMV seems superflous

Tim

Hi Tim,

1. Yes spare nibs (needs a parts list to clarify)

2. Washer missing = a Quality control issue, I'll let them know to make sure these are present as we do carry out inspections.

3. I'll bounce this back to my colleagues who have fitted the system on both 800 and 650 twins, as I merely did the drawings and put the guide together based on their info and photos.

4. Basically the brake pipes can be followed till the Swingarm then routing along the back (inside face) of the swingarm.

5. The nib should be lightly touching the sprocket face with the slash cut facing away from the sprocket (to prevent it blocking with dirt).

6. You'd be amazed how many customers we get who try to fill through the rubber filler plug, granted the part is inappropriately named 'filler plug' in the first place.

Whenever we do these things we have to allow for easy translation, this isn't an excuse but it certainly complicates things!

I won't be able to respond too frequently in here so anything else please email my colleague Mark using [email protected]

Thanks, Rory

 

[Shep]

Had 1150 GS w. shaft before. How does work chain in sand/dust (desert)? My brain tells me that it is not good idea to put oil/lubricant on chain when riding in sandy/dust environment... sand/dust sticks on chain that is lubricated and it realy does not help at all. Today chain has got lubricant inside, isn't it enough?

I know what you mean, but even though the chain has its own lubrication there is friction between the chain and the sprocket so that needs lubricating.


Shep

 

[Gipsy]

Not having had any experience before of Scottoilers, it wasn't until after I fitted the BMW-specific unit that I found the reservoir was only enough for 400-800 miles. With the mileage I do, the touring version with its 4000+ mile range would have made much more sense. Oh well...

Tim

I understand your problem Tim. When Elvie enquired at the dealer they informed her that the only model specific unit currently available was the standard size. It shouldn't be too bad as we've found over years of use that running the scottoil slower than reccommended in the leaflet prevents the precipitation of too much oil on the rear tyre. We've tended to run at rates of 1 drop every 1-2 minutes. Elvie's blade has done 23,000 miles and is still on the original chain and sprockets with almost no sign of wear.

We've yet to venture to Morocco so haven't been in a sandy environment and can't really comment on how the sandy environment will affect it. One thing to point out is that temperature affects the viscosity of the oil, so flow rates are increased in warm temperatures and flow rates may need adjusting. They used to do oils of different viscosity, but not sure if still available. Also they used to do small yellow traveling refills which work well.

Have just discovered via the interweb that Scottoil have a dealer in Budapest, and as we hope to be there in a couple of days hopefully we can get some more, and stop using chain lube!

 

[twisticles]

Have just discovered via the interweb that Scottoil have a dealer in Budapest, and as we hope to be there in a couple of days hopefully we can get some more, and stop using chain lube!

If you can find a hardware store, chainsaw oil would do the trick also. A lot cheaper than OEM scottoil too

 

[TERRY RYAN]

well 2000 miles and yes I need a new chain coming down the road
just of a very busy roundabout gave it some to got of this hazard
felt a few knocks like my pannier had come loose
slow up stopped had a quick look nothing found
then got home still had my mind ticking and yes this is what I found
also a couple of the teeth on back sprocket have been chipped to


so its phone Bmw assit tomorrow to book in a call for Monday morning asap
is that the way to do it ???? or do I call them at 0500 hours on Monday morning
to make sure they get here before I have to goto work ???

Terry, The focus is off and it's hard to see what's happening - is that a broken link? If so, is the other link seized on the pin?

yep bit of a shit pic anyhow found the link broken
all the rest seam ok

 

[Tim Cullis]

I don't know if what I'm experiencing is chain slap, but that was the expression that came to mind. When the bike is neither accelerating nor decelerating there's a slapping noise from the chain area and a vibration through the right foot rest.

I mentioned it to the dealer before the 600 mile service and I happened to watch (through the customer viewing window) the mechanic carefully checking the chain.

The noise continued. I put the bike on the centre stand and ran it in gear and the noise level is frightening (to me). I checked the chain play and found it exactly per spec. I've also fitted a Scottoiler system.

Tim

Try changing gear more often.
Low revs in a high gear, then loading up the engine will cause this effect.
The number of power pulses is too low causing the chain to try a whip.
If you have been used to a very torquey shaft drive bike, the noise will be shocking, but it s really nothing to worry about.

Timpo.

This sounds very much what the 800s I had on loan for a weekend did. I would describe what your hearing as the stall point 'the point at which an engine will become very snatchy when running at low revs'. Effectively what's happening, is the crank shaft and the gearbox are out of sync with each other. The noise is the hyvo chain chattering because of the lack of tension in it due to the motor no longer pulling the gearbox.

I found the 800s to be very noisy at low revs. Due IMO to the above. I also found that the 800's are so high geared that the motor will not run smoothly in any higher gear than second at 30mph, where the 1200 would use fourth.

I suspect that being fitted with the same engine (all be it with a few tweaks) as the other 800's that you are experiencing the same thing.

Val

OK, I'm a bit more reassured. But as I explained above, it's not due to being in the wrong gear, it happens in any gear and at any speed when the chain is not under tension.

Having already done 1200 miles I'm very aware of the gearing. The 650 is geared about 10% higher than the 800, so with its close ratio gearbox is horrifically overgeared in first and second.

I'll stick my earplugs back in, which is a shame as the exhaust note is so lovely.

Tim

What you are describing sounds like the normal free play of a chain when loads change. It is much more common in bikes with longer suspension travel. It has been mentioned on the F800riders.org site with particular reference to a lowered machine. ( By the way the forum is a useful resource for F 800 series bikes ) I would however suggest getting it checked again as Elvie had a chain together with sprockets replaced under warranty at 1500 miles.

As an aside Tim, with your intention to go seriously off road, you might consider an after market chain such as a Renthal. The BMW chain is a continuous item, and to change it the rear end of the bike has to be removed. Not something you can always do at the side of the road. Before we left for our long trip we considerd a Renthal chain, which can be split in the normal way, and then replace using a soft link. We haven't gone down this route yet, but if we have a second chain failure we will. At present done 3500 or so miles on the replacement chain and seems ok.

 

[TERRY RYAN]

Ok so the chain saga is still on going called out Bmw assit
this morning at 0600 hrs no problems arrived with inthe hour
loaded bike into back of van and away it went down to my local Bmw dealer

got a phone call at 1300 ish from Bmw dealer "had a look at your chain you need a new chain and sprocket"
Me "ok find so get one its under warranty what was the cause"
Dealer "Sorry Terry Its not under warranty cause a stone got caught in the chain link and split it and their are no sprockets in UK or chains"
However we can do you a big favour by getting one of our new bikes
and sorting you out like that"
Me"OK sounds good to me as I have things planned this weekend lets do it
oh by the way how do you know a stone has split the link then I was on a M road when this happened and not off road how much will it cost me"
Dealer "just by the marks on the chain and sprocket hmm about £240 "
Me "Just do it lets get the bike running again but I am sure this should be a warranty job"

so the question is how do they know a stone has got wedged in the linkage ??? CSI springs to my mind
how often has this happen to other folks from here????
I was always thinking that when a stone lands on a chain it would get flipped of sidewards due the momentum and forces
fit for purpose also spring to mind

I don't think there is any way that the dealer can be definitive in his assessment that the damage was caused by a stone. If it were the case is the OE chain fit for purpose? I don't think so, and would push for a warranty replacement.

Might pointing at the 800GS advert whilst having the discussion help? With "fit for purpose" as already stated sprinkled in

I've never heard of this before and the dealer's response doesn't bode well.

If you get the chain/sprocket replaced under warranty so well and good, but if not do you really want to pay BMW labour rates to take the back end of the bike out and to then fit questionable parts? Elvie's post above talks about 3.5 hours labour...

Tim

 

[twisticles]

Not having had any experience before of Scottoilers, it wasn't until after I fitted the BMW-specific unit that I found the reservoir was only enough for 400-800 miles. With the mileage I do, the touring version with its 4000+ mile range would have made much more sense. Oh well...

Tim

As has been mentioned, there is no BMW-specific Touring version.

But you can add a lube tube. It's basically a squishy extended reservoir for a standard RMV, no reason you can't add it to the BMW version I guess. With the RMV and Lube Tube, you're looking at up to nearly 4000 miles between fills. Looky here

 

[Tim Cullis]

At £20 it looks good value.

Tim

 

[TERRY RYAN]

Hi
all just to update you all on my chain & sprocket problem the items were replaced by my local dealer they found the sprocket in BMW Bracknell and the chain as well as present
I am waiting to hear the out come for warranty lets see what happens
will keep you updated as things progress