► Chains, oilers, sprockets

[Blobby]

When a chain snaps, is it usually a non-event resulting simply in a loss of drive or is it common for it to go badly wrong and something that everyone should be very aware of. I don’t intend taking unnecessary risks and if a weak chain is dangerous then I will buy the best I can get. That said, would BMW really fit a duff chain? It just doesn’t sound like the BMW image I have in my mind.

 

[moto1527]

When a chain snaps, is it usually a non-event resulting simply in a loss of drive or is it common for it to go badly wrong and something that everyone should be very aware of. I don’t intend taking unnecessary risks and if a weak chain is dangerous then I will buy the best I can get. That said, would BMW really fit a duff chain? It just doesn’t sound like the BMW image I have in my mind.

Well it can be either, i think most of the time its a loss of drive, modern bikes have better chain guides so it tends to just slip off leaving you wondering if the clutch has been pulled in, occasionally the chain can bunch up and smash the chain housing but i havent heard of this happening on an F800GS or on any bike less than 10 years old?.( I'm sure someone will correct me here)

how a chain breaks
Here is how i see it
1.The chain will only break if its under load
2.its only under load on the top run
3.therefore it will only break on the top run?

here's the bit that will decide how it pans out

If it breaks very near to the front sprocket the "loose" end could pile into the still spinning sprocket, bunch up and jam

If it breaks further back then the loose end will be driven by the rear sprocket and will coil itself down onto the road.

The reason i think most failures are non-catastrophic is this then.

A weak link is subjected to the most force as it exits the rear sprocket, as it lifts off the last tooth it is carrying the full force of the load upon it, of course it carries on taking this force the whole length of the top run but at the start is perhaps the critical point?
If its good enough to last the whole run along the top run it may just go on the next cycle.

M

 

[Greggers]

I've seen a couple 'broken' on the bottom run (but it's academic as it's broken whichever way you look at it..) by a small stone getting caught between the chain and the rear sprocket - it just pops the sideplate off so that when it gets to the top of the run BAM .. off it comes..

The BMW chains are just plain old shite, mine is so loose and rattly that it's hard to believe it's an 'O' ring chain... maybe that's where they cut the budget!

G

 

[moto1527]

I've seen a couple 'broken' on the bottom run (but it's academic as it's broken whichever way you look at it..) by a small stone getting caught between the chain and the rear sprocket - it just pops the sideplate off so that when it gets to the top of the run BAM .. off it comes..

The BMW chains are just plain old shite, mine is so loose and rattly that it's hard to believe it's an 'O' ring chain... maybe that's where they cut the budget!

G

that's it in a nut shell money saved on sticking a crap chain on, my DID one is lasting well though! (so far)

 

[lunchbox]

New chain & sprockets

I have now fitted a new DID gold heavy duty X ring chain and (unfortunately) BMW sprockets as I couldn't find any aftermarket steel ones. I spoke to BMW customer care (ha ha) who said the had no knowledge of problems with chains!! and would only replace under warranty with the same CZ chain. Also they would not replace the sprockets as these are "consumables", even though the rear was damaged by the chain.

I decided that buying a chain splitter/riveter for £50 was better than paying the dealer to do it plus paying for my own chain and sprockets. Then of course the splitter pin broke! I managed to finish the job with the help of a punch and the riveter and all has been well so far. At least the seller refunded for the splitter/riveter and my return postage - BMW take heed of good service!

I am in the process of writing to BMW about all this and will include comments from this thread and others in the USA where there is also a problem. Legal Action is an option and I will definitely be writing to several of the bike mags. Watch this space.

 

[everywherevirtually]

I have now fitted a new DID gold heavy duty X ring chain and (unfortunately) BMW sprockets as I couldn't find any aftermarket steel ones. I spoke to BMW customer care (ha ha) who said the had no knowledge of problems with chains!! and would only replace under warranty with the same CZ chain. Also they would not replace the sprockets as these are "consumables", even though the rear was damaged by the chain.

I decided that buying a chain splitter/riveter for £50 was better than paying the dealer to do it plus paying for my own chain and sprockets. Then of course the splitter pin broke! I managed to finish the job with the help of a punch and the riveter and all has been well so far. At least the seller refunded for the splitter/riveter and my return postage - BMW take heed of good service!

I am in the process of writing to BMW about all this and will include comments from this thread and others in the USA where there is also a problem. Legal Action is an option and I will definitely be writing to several of the bike mags. Watch this space.

Hi Lunchbox,

where did you get your chain and how much were the sprockets from BMW? Also how long did they take to deliver?

thanks in advance...

Jon

 

[lunchbox]

I got the chain from Motorworks.co.uk who were the only on-line company I could find who did a 116 link DID VM525.

It cost £95 plus just under a tenner for postage and arrived in a couple of days. I considered using the extra heavy duty DID ZVM525 at £125 from motorcycle-road-and-race.co.uk but considered it overkill for a bike of 85bhp as the sprockets would probably wear out before the chain, necessitating the changing of both and thereby wasting the extra £30.

The sprockets were in stock at my local Motorrad in Bristol and cost £71.40.

The "Heavy duty" chain splitter/rivetter cost £49 from Donnington Motor Company off eBay and is one of many similar on eBay which I think are all made in the far East of what we used to call monkey metal, ie soft zinc laden castings. They probably do smaller chains OK but are not worth half the price so I would recommend you get one you know is made from tempered tool steel and up to the job. Having said that the vendor refunded my money without question so good for them!

If anyone reading this knows of a good heavy duty chain splitter/riveter I would be interested to know for next time, although I hope that will be many thousands for miles from now.

 

[Greggers]

Ok - here goes ....

I just changed my chain.

I bought an IRIS branded chain from LM Spares (0143285055), grand total £65.00 deliverd. They removed 2 links from a 118 length for me and shipped it FOC. It's a lovely chain, all slippery and greasy, with nice gold coloured side-plates. I used *shock-horror* the spring clip link in favour of the rivet link... it might be easier to remove in the field, so to speak.

I mullered my chain breaking tool on the old 525 I was going to try and salvage (it ended up in the bin cos I was so pissed off with it...), so I ended up grinding the pin-heads off my CZ chain to remove it. Fitting the new chain was a piece of cake - used the old link to join the two and pulled the new one through. I needed to ease the adjustment screw a gnat's to get the new chain on, but everything went fine.

Observations on the old chain ...

I was beginning to doubt it was 'o' ring by the noise it made when it was dry. However, for the last few weeks I've been using a moly based 'open gear' spray by Rocol -thin and bubbly as it goes on and penetrates everywhere, but one the solvent's gone it's thick as you like, doesn't fling off. Sh!t and blankets spring to mind here. The end result was that the chain didn't make any more noise at all. Once it was off I had a good look at it, and was surprised at how good it looked ..! I've always thought that a good indicator of a chain's condition is to hold it out in front of you - link plates horizontal of course! - and see how much the thing sags... The CZ chain - with a healthy moly lube, still articulated well, no stiff links, but no excessively loose ones either. The sag test showed .... hardly any curving at all! I was surprised to say the least as I was expecting it to be as floppy as my old grand-dads doodah.. The seals I took out were in good condition , and lube (assume it was mine) was still on the pins... I can only guess that there were a couple of places where the pins had worn excessively causing a bit of stretch... I did think though that the grinder made a really easy job of getting the pin heads off, so I wonder if the pins are sufficiently hard..

In a nutshell.... the OE chain will probably be ok if you can live with the lube maintenance it needs and it's tendency to wear unevenly. Personally, the peace of mind that I've just bought is worth every penny of my £65.00.

Greg

 

[ceeessbee]

Sprockets - change or not with chain?

Hi Greggers,

I've got 3.5k on CZ chain and thinking of changing as there is some uneven stretch noticeable now (use a pro-oiler from new so always lubed). I take it you didn't change the sprockets, how did you come to this decision?

Anybody else got a 'rule of thumb' as to whether to change sprockets with chain?

Thanks.

 

[Micky]

Hi Greggers,

Anybody else got a 'rule of thumb' as to whether to change sprockets with chain?

Thanks.

Yeah ... always change 'em together

Some might say you're wasting money... I'd say I'm saving it

 

[Greggers]

Hiya ..

Well, Generally I'll change the sprockets with the chain, but if the chainwheels don't show any significant signs of wear like thinning or hooking of the teeth I'll just chuck another chain on. The bike's just gone over 5k now, so I wouldn't expect the sprockets to be so bad anyway, and if the chain is the weak link (pun intended) then its wear rate will be greater... hopefully!

There's a quick'n'dirty way to get an idea of chain wear... Take the slack out of the chain by pushing up on the bottom run, hold it up there and with your other hand try and pull the chain off the sprocket (at the 9 o'clock position) If you can lift the chain by more than a millimeter or two then it's knackered and needs to go.

Obviously if the sprockets show signs of hooking or thinning... it's down to your Stealer or Touratwat for a new set..

I do intend fitting a Scottoiler in the not too distant future, but in the meantime will continue to use that gear spray ...

Useful link here


Worn front sprocket

New v. Worn rear sprockets

Hope this helps...

Greg

 

[ceeessbee]

Thanks Greggers n Mickey,

I guess its take a common sense approach. Seems a waste to throw sprockets away after 3.5k and they don't look hooked in any way. Take a look at Pro-Oiler as an alternative to Scott, adjustable on the move to meet weather conditions n sensitive to speed. Good friendly service as well although the Euro exchange may have bumped price up since I bought.

Cheers

 

[lunchbox]

Greggers, you don't say why you changed your chain or how many miles it had done. You say it looked good when it came off and had no lateral sag so I guess it just stretched. One word of caution though - thick, sticky chain lube can mask chain wear by filling gaps and reducing wear related movement.

From reading forums here and in the States it is clear that the CZ chain quality is wildly inconsistent, with some riders managing 10 - 15K miles (although it should be nearer 20K) and some breaking after a couple of thousand, sometimes twice, like mine. Some riders also mention chains rusting soon after they are put on - see the pics below of my 500 mile, dealer fitted, heavily greased chain as an example.

O and X ring chains in this day and age should last more than a few thousand miles and they should never break. That is dangerous and points to a manufacturing fault - even bad maintenance should not break a chain in a few hundred, or even thousand, miles. BMW's refusal to acknowledge this fault is inexcusable and I for one will be pursuing this with them using the law if necessary. I hope others will do the same.

 

[Greggers]

Lunchbox...

I changed mine out of a combination of paranoia and also the knowledge that the chain was worn in parts... I was feeling the tighter section of the chain through the chassis (you'll know it when/if you get it) as a kind of vague roughness that you feel as you ride.

Agreed 100% with the sticky chain-lube thing, a bit like papering over the cracks.

The new chain is immediately noticeable, smoother transmission, the shusssh shusssh thing has gone, all told a much slicker feeling all round.

Greg

 

[Micky]

BMW's refusal to acknowledge this fault is inexcusable and I for one will be pursuing this with them using the law if necessary. I hope others will do the same.

I'm usually very quick to defend BMW, but what you say is totally correct. There are sufficient reports of chains going AWOL for it not to be a coincidence. BMW can only bury their head in the sand for so long

 

[TERRY RYAN]

The same thing that happen to my BMW Chain to,my dealer tried to tell me is was a stone that went in-between the links and caused it to push link out and break
I also have found since the iris chain has been fitted the ride is smoother and smoother transmission, the shusssh shusssh thing has gone to best thing I ever did as well and £65.00 well worth it

 

[lunchbox]

Well it can be either, i think most of the time its a loss of drive, modern bikes have better chain guides so it tends to just slip off leaving you wondering if the clutch has been pulled in, occasionally the chain can bunch up and smash the chain housing but i havent heard of this happening on an F800GS or on any bike less than 10 years old?.( I'm sure someone will correct me here)

how a chain breaks
Here is how i see it
1.The chain will only break if its under load
2.its only under load on the top run
3.therefore it will only break on the top run?

here's the bit that will decide how it pans out

If it breaks very near to the front sprocket the "loose" end could pile into the still spinning sprocket, bunch up and jam

If it breaks further back then the loose end will be driven by the rear sprocket and will coil itself down onto the road.

The reason i think most failures are non-catastrophic is this then.

A weak link is subjected to the most force as it exits the rear sprocket, as it lifts off the last tooth it is carrying the full force of the load upon it, of course it carries on taking this force the whole length of the top run but at the start is perhaps the critical point?
If its good enough to last the whole run along the top run it may just go on the next cycle.

M

Agreed mostly, but when you shut the throttle off at speed you considerably load the bottom chain run, just like when you wind it on again you transfer the load to the top. That's why modern chains are pretty amazing pieces of engineering when you think of the power that some bikes put through them without problem for 20k miles plus. Unfortunately not BMW!!!

None of my biking friends can remember a chain going since our "reckless and stupid" days some 30-40 years ago when you could tie a (pre O ring) chain in knots after bathing it in hot graphite grease, put it back on and then do another few thousand miles with the thing thrashing around like a flail mower on heat!! ......pass the valium Doris.

 

[Blind Lemon Ade]

Coopers in Tun Wells just told me, one of their customers had a chain "jump off", which damaged the wheel hub, currently awaiting replacement under warranty...

 

[everywherevirtually]

Does anyone know where I would get a replacement chain for the 800 tomorrow (Saturday). I have quite a range tomorrow as I'll be driving from Manchester to the lakes and back. Not looking at a BMW model. Hoping to get a DID or Tsubaki thats a few links longer so i can have some spares.
all advice much appreciated

cheers

Jon

 

[TERRY RYAN]

Does anyone know where I would get a replacement chain for the 800 tomorrow (Saturday). I have quite a range tomorrow as I'll be driving from Manchester to the lakes and back. Not looking at a BMW model. Hoping to get a DID or Tsubaki thats a few links longer so i can have some spares.
all advice much appreciated

cheers

Jon

these people fitted my chain fitted and iris gold they are just of the M62 J27

call to see if the have one in stock first 01132383707

of there website http://www.jordanbikes.com/